Sirius XM Analyst Round-up
The conference call of Sirius XM Radio is behind us, and analysts are beginning to weigh in with their respective thoughts on the first quarter as a merged satellite radio entity. Among those issuing reports today were Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Miller Tabak, and JP Morgan.
MERRILL LYNCH
Merrill analyst Jessica Reif Cohen noted that subscriber numbers were light, but that the subscriber issue was mitigated by cost reductions. On the subscriber front, Sirius XM’s gross sub number came in 130,000 short of Merrill estimates. Cohen said that the weaker number was not really a surprise given that the company had already guided down, and that OEM sales have been weak.
The analyst noted that self-pay churn was in line with Merill estimates, as was ARPU which came in at $10.47. On the positive side, Cohen noted that the EBITDA loss of $37mn (includes $27.5mn one-time programming), was $49mn better than MLe $86mn loss. Cohen attributes this to a demonstration by Sirius XM Radio that synergy benefits are real. Cohen stated, “Mel Karmazin, CEO of SIRI, has a history of successful merger integrations, and 3Q08 SIRI results provided some tangible evidence of synergy realization at SIRI.”
“Despite a slowdown in retail and OEM sales, SIRI saw cost savings on multiple items: 1) programming; 2) marketing; 3) work force; and 4) product development. Consequently, CY08 EBITDA loss guidance was lowered $50mn to $300mn.”
Cohen is maintaining a rating of UNDERPERFORM, but is encouraged by the “tangible evidence of cost rationalization at such an early juncture, however, we remain concerned over near term headwinds: 1) debt refinancing risk; 2) risk of further dilution if SIRI uses its equity to take out 2009 debt maturities; 3) potential risk to growth assumptions and guidance if the auto and retail channel outlook deteriorates more than anticipated.” The firm is maintaining their 25 cent price target.
GOLDMAN SACHS
Goldman analyst mark Wienkes issued a report today noting that, “subscriber metrics are missing and financials mixed vs. our estimates.” Wienkes report states that the company came in at mixed levels versus the Goldman analysis. Specifically:
- Gross subscribers came in at 1,847,000 versus Goldman’s 1,914,000
- Net subscribers came in at 344,000 versus Goldman’s 430,000
- All in churn came in at 2.7% versus Goldman’s 2.6%
- ARPU came in at $10.47 versus Goldman’s $10.82
- SAC came in at $74 versus Goldman’s $91
- Revenue came in at $612.7 million versus Goldman’s $609.8 million
- Loss Per Share came in at $(36.8)million, $(1.93) vs. Goldman’s $(105.1mn) and $(0.13).
Some initial questions Wienkes has are; (1)with just 200k net adds targeted in 4Q, how will the 2009 sub forecast be reached? (2)with 3.25bn shares at 3Q, an uncertain unissued allocation to other securities and + 262.9k recently issued shares in exchange for$90.7mn debt, set against an authorization cap of 4.5bn, what is plan B if shareholders vote “No”? (3)with $360mn of cash at 9/30, current assets (A/R, inventory, distributor receivables and prepaids) of $250mn and current liabilities (A/P, accrued expenses & accrued interest) of $874mn, will the working capital payback be deferred beyond the pending debt maturities?(4)what is the essence of the new $1.1bn “Deferred credit on executory contracts” and can it benefit the P&L in future periods? (5)do recently provided FCF targets imply satellite launch deferrals and what is the attendant risk? and (6)how will FCF/share estimates change following either more shares or higher interest costs owing to pending refinancings.
MILLER TABAK
Miller Tabak analyst David Joyce issued a report today regarding Sirius XM Radio’s Q3. Joyce notes, “Sirius XM Radio (SIRI) 3Q08 Revenue & Subs Beat, but 4Q08+ Subs Weaker than Expected. 5-Year Projections Miss on Subs, Revenue In-Line, OIBDA & FCF Above Estimates”
The analyst reiterate a NEUTRAL on SIRI with a short term target of $2, and a long term target of $3.
Joyce noted that Sirius XM Radio pro forma 3Q08 revenue of $613 mm(+16%) was just ahead of their $606 mm and the consensus $608 million. In addition, the Pro forma Adj. Loss from Operations (OIBDA) of $(37) mm was better than their $(74) mm estimate. The pro forma Net Loss of $(217) million matched the Miller Tabak estimate. EPS of $(0.09) matched consensus but was worse than their $(0.07)/sh on a share count average. Negative Free Cash Flow Of $(97.6) million beat their $(161) million estimate.
SIRI ended 3Q08 with 18.920 mm subs, having added a net +344k subs, above our +302k estimate that estimated an 18.87 million total. 1.847 million gross adds were greater than their 1.531 million estimate, but deactivated subs of (1.503) million were also greater than our (1.229) million estimate. Retail net adds were (149)k, worse than their +25k estimate, ending with 9.036 million subs (vs. their 9.144 million estimate). OEM net adds of +492k were far above the Miller Tabak estimate of +279k, finishing with 9.778 million (above their 9.560 million estimate). Rental net adds of 1.3k were below their +4k estimate. Churn of 1.7% was below their 2.2% estimate, ARPU was better than expected at $10.47 vs. their $10.09, and SAC was also better than expected at $74 vs. their $79 mm estimate.
“The company provided late last week, for financing presentation and reporting requirements, and again in the earnings press release, long-range projections that should be viewed positively, and could be a reason to consider SIRI a Speculative Buy, but we are reiterating our Neutral recommendation for now as >$900 mm of refinancings, which could cause further dilution, are on the horizon.”
JP MORGAN
JP Morgan Barton Crocket issued a report today relating to the Sirius XM Radio Q3 conference call. The analyst rates Sirius XM Radio as NEUTRAL. Crocket noted that Sirius XM reported an “exceptionally noisy, merger transitional 3Q08 that featured some core metrics that held up OK in the face of a tough macro environment.”
The analyst notes that while the quarter was encouraging, he believe the stock will continue to be driven more by progress toward refinancing $1b of debt due in 2009 than by fundamentals. Currently challenged credit markets provide reason for caution.
Among the concerns listed by Crocket was the OEM conversion rate of 47.0% pro forma, which is 3.7 points below where the company has been. His concern arises because a stable OEM conversion rates have been a strong argument for the long-term market opportunity.
Crocket also noted that Sirius XM exited the quarter with $360m of cash and equivalents, and expects to generate positive free cash flow in 4Q08. Importantly, the company anticipates no liquidity issues before the maturity of the Feb 09 converts. The JP Morgan estimates are under review.
Position: Long SIRI.
Goldman Sachs:
– Loss Per Share came in at $(36.8)million, $(1.93) vs. Goldman’s $(105.1mn) and $(0.13).
————————————-
You gotta love Weinkes. They blow out the GS (105.1 mn) projected loss by hitting (36.8 mn).
They blow out GS earnings per share estimate of (0.13) vs. (.09). So instead he posts only the loss after one time merger related charges which is (1.93).
Still waiting for the great Mel K., to shove something positive up GS’s ass.
Get the debt done Mel. And do what’s right for the shareholder.
A lot of articles took the negative approach. I thought they were not listening to the same conference call that I was. If you just read the headlines SIRIUS lost $4.88 billion. I see a lot of positives, longterm, if the debt can be managed. Most ignore, or are not aware, that increased penetration rates offset declining sales for autos. And none of the competing technologies have the content and simplicity of satellite radio. Just give me variety in all music types, some sports and news, traffic and weather and some variety in talk show hosts and I will pay for it and be happy. Where else can I get anything close to that. Except for a few programs I find that preferable to most television viewing. Especially with the current 50-50% split between advertising and content.
Wienkes must have a little boner with the stock price sitting at his target.
Goldman sucks can blow me!
Get the converts payed off and cut Goldman sucks off!
I am giving three Sat. radios for this Christmas, with one year subs!
Stick that in your ass! GS
Agree sxm.
Right On RMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like it or not, Goldman analyst Mark Wienkes is the only one who has any credibility on the street when it comes to Sirius XM. Like it or not, Wienkes is pointing out the writedowns and other concerns because there doesn’t seem to be any positive effects showing from the merger. Like it or not, I have serious doubts that there will be any real synergy savings and if you’re a half-way decent investor, you know that synergies are often overrated and never realized when companies merge or are acquired.
For those of you who have blasted GS’s analysts over the past year, ask yourselves what kind of an investment position you would be in now had you listened to them. There are hedge funds and institutions who pay good money to firms who write analyst reports and for good reason, TO MAKE MONEY. Learn from the pros and stop listening to the ignorant.
Hey Friggin…
November 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pm frigginregan Says:
I hear ya Vapor. What can we do but wait? At least its getting to the moment of truth. I assume if the RS passes, they won’t actually DO IT…because as Mel said…it’s for “delisting purposes” ONLY….which we won’t have to REALLY worry about until the end of next summer.
The RS is for “Delisting Purposes Only”…
Well you see now boys we were going to the pink sheets because we did not service the Feb note….Could not let that happen no siree
So we RS you boys at 50 to 1, then printed some more worthless shares and people bought them and now we have the money for the Feb note…but then those bastard naked shorters took this stock back down to a penny.. not my fault boys, really not my fault
Tell you what I am gonna do just to help you boys out..Me and a few of my friends are going to give you boys two cents a share for your stock and take this company off the Nasdax and away from those naked shorter bastards that ruin this company…at least you boys won’t be completely broke..
You don’t have to thank me now for this big favor I am doing for you boys…no siree
When will you be coming back friggin?
imho
vaporgold
hey SoCalRun
Did you notice Wienkes did not give an estimate?..he will be pulling that puppy out later..
imho
vaporgold
Hey Joe Blow…
The reason why Weinkes is always right is because Goldman Suks controls the stock. They can take it to any price they wish.
I didn’t realize that net retail subs were so negative. That explains why just multiplying auto sales times installs times adoption rate gets you a higher number than overall net adds. Retail subs are canceling at a faster rate then they are subscribing. Hard to forecast where that might go and I am surprised I don’t read more about that.
SiriusXMInvestor, show me the proof that GS controls the float for Sirius XM. In other words, put up or shut up. I’m tired of you people who do nothing but repeat what other ignorant people say as though it’s a matter of fact when it isn’t. Before the GS garbage started up, it was an MM conspiracy to keep SIRI down, or Cramer was bashing SIRI so his buddies could buy it on the cheap.
Joe Blow,
The is stock is at .25 coincidently happens to be Wienkes target. That is proof enough for me.
SXI, if what you said is true, you had better pray that Wienkes doesn’t lower that target. You still haven’t provided proof that GS controls SIRI’s float.
There have been no synergies implemented yet, except XM withdrawing from retail which is not merger-related. Wait until after tomorrow, Weds 11/12, when both services merge and channel holocaust occurs. We’d better see some massive efficiencies for Q4, because it’s going to be churn baby churn, unfortunately.
The cost side management of this company will turn the tide, make some or all of the refi doable in 2009, and buy some time for the OEM channel to turn around. They have just started to cut. Synergy is a term that is applied to all kinds of mergers that do not have enough redundancy to look twice at. This is a company that pays twice for EVERYTHING, run by a guy that still has the first dollar that he ever made. My cousin worked for him in the 90s, and had story upon story about what a control freak Mel was in terms of costs… even lunches for the customers. Wait and see how this evolves as they integrate with XM, a company that always spent first and asked why later. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize in advance for any Ill will caused by this brazenly upbeat view.
Vapor.
I know your going to be right. It will be painful for the pps when he does put out the new target.
Socal.
Great cost controls this quarter and we should see some improvement in the 4th and all of 2009, so the company will likely be at least break even for the year 2009.
Great news, but here is teh problem I have with the stock right now. I am expecting another 25% dilution at least and I doubt it is already in the stock price.
With new car production and sales in the tank, they will have a real difficult time increasing subs, as indicated in their projection.
I want to see more proof of penetration rates and Toyota #’s in production of vehicles with sat radio because with the churn rate of 1.7%, the # of vehicles churning keeps increasing & without demand at retail, they are now going negative in the quarters on the net.
Term loans these daysare at 15 – 20%, so they will continue to sell shares weekly. Anyone know how they sold the last shares to raise 40M that did not seem to have been made public ?
They need 610 Million by April – I know the analysts will not let them off the hook if they take care of Feb. They will have just as much, if not more pressure to come up with the 400M Mat XM debt. I guess they could get it pushed out a year at extremely high interest rates, but does this make sense ?
I don’t want to keep getting burnt by this stock and am waiting for .18 cents to buy back in. The question is, will that be low enough ?
Also, you can almost bet the house that Wienkes cut’s the price target to .15 cents in the next few days.
Hey Joe The Bagholder.
Goldman Sachs 52 week view. 68.51 – 240.05.
The $68 per share hit today. Hmmmmmmmmmmm Genius. Let’s see. $240 every $24 bucks = 10%
I noted you have trouble with math from previous posts.
So $240 – $68 = $172 Divided by $24 = Oh MY!
That’s a 71% Loss.
You sorry assed pathetic basher. All you bagholder id’s are bashers from the yahoo boards etc.
If only I could just one time………….
GS,LEH,MER,BRC,AIG,FRE,FRN etc. The ones you profess to love and adore.
They are who got us into this mess.
GFY!!!!!!!!!!
SoCalFool, GS didn’t hold a gun to your head to make you buy the stock or make you hold while it declined in value. You held while every GS report was pretty much on target for SIRI and that makes you just what you say you are, a fool. I think it’s possible that your investment choices and luck might change when you grow up and accept responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others for your failures.
Every quarter when the 10Q comes out I always see the same things, people posting feel good comments about how great the company is doing and how good things will be next quarter, just you wait and see. As long as Mel Karmazin and the current board is in charge, you won’t see any improvements to the value of your investment.
Well here they are. Latest short interest numbers. And we did it. We made number one. Do you know how many Joe the Bagholders are out there that post on these boards and represent the shorts on this report. I’m guessing plenty.
Vapor…I’ll be returning from Brazil on Nov 30th.
Man…if Weinkes lowers the price target again to 15 cents or lower…is someone at the SEC going to sit up and FINALLY take notice that something criminal is going on here?
The bashers LOVE to say the Weinkes is the ONLY one whose been right….but when you work for THE top wall street firm and that firm has a vested interest in keeping the stock price as LOW as possible….there is a MAJOR conflict of interest. They should be banned from covering Sirius…because if what they were doing was ANY more obvious you’d have to go up and BASH the head of the SEC with a two by four to the head.
MOMMA FRIGGIN MIA!
You think there is a problem with the system.
53 million more shares shorted in two weeks.
Joe the bagholder..
Are you Michael Hartlieb??
No company that is seeking to loan another company money/converts,should be publicly rating that same company.
There is a direct conflict of interest period.
Friggin
Have a safe trip and make sure you check in from time to time while you are in S.A.
We may need a good rant, if we get to depressed.
Joe The Bagholder, your thorazine prescription is ready, and the nice, 260-pound, ex-NFL linebacker-orderlies from the hospital are here to assure you take it and go back to your nice quiet padded cell before your rants cause your bubble to burst.
Long SIRI
I just finished playing Texas Hold’em online. You can chat while playing. I often find a reason to ask others if they have Sirius or XM radio, and a lot do! None of the poker players that said they have it no what SIRI is, though.
PS I made Shark level tonight in the game. The confidence gained in the effort really counters some of the negativity on this board (Joe The Bag-Over-The-Head being just the latest basher in a series)
Well, on the brighter side of things!!
Looks like the channel merging is going smooth, its cool to see siri/xm instead of just xm. Now where the hell did my favorite channels go too?
Great company, to bad our turd of a stock has sunk to the bottom of the toilet. I will cost average down below a buck when wankers/GS, comes out at .15 a share target.
7500 shares / average $2
Weinkes is right only on the share price because they control the price. His reasons for the price are way off.
I bet the colts win in pittsburgh. I will even give you +3 points.
Wow, I am brillant I got that right- see my point
I am exhausted! I’ve lost so much $$ on this stock, i doubt if i will ever be able to recover financialy. mel keeps driving the bus in the right direction reguardless of the hazards before him. I’M STILL WITH YOU MEL.
I CAN NO LONGER VALUE THE OPINION OF ANY OF YOU ANALISTS!! YOU ARE ALL CROOKS WITH HIDDEN AGENDAS! YOU ASSHOLES ARE ALL SELF FULFILLING GODS OF PROPHESY. I TRULY HATE WHAT BAFFOONS
LIKE YOU AND BANKERS HAVE DONE TO US IN PURELY IN THE NAME OF GREED AND MANIPULATION!!!!!!
PM.
You gave me an idea.
Online Poker tournaments. Proceeds to go to reducing the Siri debt.
I’m all in.
Socal
Hey Tyler,
I know I’m a fairly new poster here at the Buzz.
But having gotten the chance to read your news briefs, and more importantly your responses in the comment section.
I just want to state, that you seem extremely fair and balanced in your approach to all.
You come across, as very diligent and intelligent. And very open to allowing readers a lot of leeway.
I appreciate most importantly your ability to find these articles ahead of any other source I know of.
And that you have created a personal network, that has given you the ability to find information in a very streamlined way.
Anyway, thank you again for your efforts.
Much appreciated by me.
Socal
Hey Vapor. Maybe you should be an analyst.
Share price holding at your .25.
Vaporgold, I am not Michael Hartlieb. I don’t know him or communicate with him. I do understand that he has over 700 shareholders joining his lawsuit against Sirius XM and more are signing up each day. That tells me that I’m not the only one who feels strongly that management at Sirius needs to be replaced.
I would strongly advise each and every one of you to read the 10Q report that was finally released. Do not skim over it but actually read it and pay attention to the sections concerning their financial stability and debt. After doing so some of you might realize why Mel Karmazin released the PR late and held a rush conference call. Safe Harbor can only go so far in protecting what he says and that’s why he has said so little.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/ed.....7/d10q.htm
JBH:
Are you saying there are problems with this stock?
I ran a 10k once.
Thanks for your input.
I’ll monitor the share price closely.
TA
Socal
Dennis, don’t ignore that queezy feeling you have in your stomach. That’s your gut talking to you because Mel is driving the bus and he has no training or even a driver’s license.
Many of you who post here and tell each other what you want to hear, not what you need to hear, should be asking yourselves why everything Mel Karmazin touches in relation to Sirius XM turns to peanut butter instead of gold. Mel Karmazin to Sirius XM is what Ken Lay was to Enron, the man who told shareholders that everything was okay and to keep on buying stock. Where is Enron today?
Dennis in Cleo … I think that a lot of us share at least a modicum of what you feel toward analysts. I do, especially when the one that has been most accurate on SIRI, has also released opinions that we do not want to receive. Still, as a small-time investor / trader I do not have the time or resources needed to analyze every stock of interest or in which I have a stake. So, respectfully, accept that analysts are needed. I will say, though, that there needs to be more than just “an arm’s length” of separation between analysts and the large investment firms (ok, we’re calling them “holding banks” now) that many blatantly appear to be supporting as flacks. As flacks, such analysts are no more credible than the IR, PR and similar types that spew only what their executive masters want communicated to the media, pundits, investors, traders, and other information consumers. In case my point is missed, only put stock into analysts that have a track record of generating objective opinions. I heard, by the way, that the S&P maintains a buy opinion. I heard that yesterday and need to confirm it. I’ve previously suggested to this board’s founders that they list and give the ratings of all anlysts that follow SIRI. We each could then do individual research into the analysts’ opinions and form more rounded opinions of our own. FWIW. Now, I’m off to work so I can earn a living for my family and have my fair share of taxes withheld to service the $13T national debt (vs. $10T GDP, according to the Conference Board as of September).
Fool, keep those rose colored glasses and blinders on. Life is good on the ship when you ignore the obvious until you wake up and realize that it’s too late to reverse course to avoid that iceberg you’re about to ram.
Tyler…
Anything you write some people are going to rip it a part. Sometimes it may be warranted, other times it’s not.
But the way a person criticizes another person tells volume about that persons character. As a writer you always have to remind yourself of the source where those comments originate.
We are not always going to agree, but common respect should always apply.
Keep up the good work
imho
vaporgold
Thats what I dig about this place. Finding SiriusBuzz was like sanctuary from the INSANITY that is the Sirius Yahoo board. Everyone here, regardless of their opinion is civil, thoughtful and intelligent. We’re all passionate about the product…and frustrated with the stock.
And aside from the occasional Yahoo who slips in here…it’s been pretty much insanity free. Lol.
Which helps, because being a Sirius shareholder is INSANE enough. 🙂
We need to hit at least .31 on this cycle up or else???
SoCal Run…
At this stage I believe it all comes down to perception.
You said oil will go below $2.00 a gallon.
The oil market is falling again today, we are probably using almost as much oil.
Lets hope it continues to fall since the run up by OPEC was another direct black mailing of the world.I think your number will be close and you’re perception of that market is correct.
All of us wanted the Feb note addressed before the 3 Qtr cc.
Our next target date is the Dec stockholders meeting.
We are all ( some of us) under the perception that this will happen before the stockholders meeting or announced at the stockholders meeting.
Lets hope that perception holds true in regards to the current stock price.
Wienkes can go screw himself.
imho
vaporgold
Vaporgold, does the name Henry Blodgett ring a bell? He had a writing style close to what Tyler has. He wrote such nice articles about Overture(OVER). What people didn’t know at the time was that behind the scenes in private he communicated with a few people that he thought the stock was trash. The SEC finally caught up to Mr. Blodgett, who as a condition of his settlement with the government, is no longer allowed to work for a firm that does business in the stock market, in addition to pay a very hefty fine.
If I appear to be critical of both Tyler and Brandon, it’s for good reason. Since they both hold a position in Siruis XM stock, it’s impossible for them to take an impartial approach to the coverage they give and the articles they write. I suggest you go back and read some of their comments after the acquisition of XM was completed, and the market reaction to the share price as a result of Mel Karmazin’s actions relating to the e financing and stock offering he did that was priced at $1.50. Read about what Brandon said he did with his Sirius stock.
My point is this, when someone owns a stock and then takes a journalistic approach to promoting their stock investment, they will never be upfront and forthcoming with all that needs to be discussed. They are not interested in rationally discussing the negative points of view and there are many. By focusing only on the positives and ignoring the obvious, many people including Tyler and especially Brandon, have lost money on this stock.
You can always go from web site to web site, until you find one that has a number of people saying what you want to hear. It may not be what you need to hear, but you most likely won’t admit that even if you’ve lost money on your investment. Your internet friends, which can hardly be considered as someone you would trust to guard your life let alone your money, are on the same ship as you and just like you, they feel good knowing they won’t go down alone when the ship sinks.
Vaporgold, a measure of a person’s character is by their ability to be honest and tell you the truth, even when people like yourself may not want to hear it. Tyler and Brandon go to considerable length to avoid the obvious and focus on only that which makes this stock seem like a good long term investment. Truth be told, billions of dollars have been lost for people who took the very same approach to investing that Tyler and Brandon have.
Let it also be said there has been a fair amount of warnings against investing in this stock long term, when it would be better to invest short term while keeping a close eye on the stock’s daily performance. For those who took the short term approach, especially those who wisely guard their 401K investment funds, you have done well. For those of you who bought this stock based on feel good recommendations and got caught up in the hype then continued to hold with some even adding to your position while the stock value declined, are the same ones who attack people like me who tell it like it is, not like you want it to be.
Yes, keep going down that line of 100 people. Sooner or later you’ll find someone who says just what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. The other 99 people are just a bunch of moneymakers whose opinion doesn’t mean anything except to those who really do want to hear what they need to hear.
Friggin…
I just completed therapy successfully that I was not insane at the time I bought Sirius stock.
I kept telling my therapist, I had to be friggin crazy, just crazy, what other explanation is there?
I have to go make an appointment, I think I am having a relapse
imho
vaporgol
Vaporgold says: Lets hope it continues to fall since the run up by OPEC was another direct black mailing of the world. I think your number will be close and you’re perception of that market is correct.
If you were following the stock market this year, which you obviously weren’t, you would know that it was the speculators who bid up the price of oil, not OPEC. Many hedge funds and institutions cashed out stocks and bought into oil futures. As a result, they made a tremendous amount of money. If you happened to be invested in a fund that played the oil market over the summer, congratulations, you’re very wealthy.
Vapor, oil is not sold on the market by the gallon. If you meant to say that gas will hit $2 a gallon, it has and is even lower than $1.65 a gallon in some states.
Joe the Bagholder
I appreciate your comments and a lot of it does ring true.
I would be the first person here to get in the line that says I lost my ass in sirius stock.
I really loved the product and did not see any way it could fail. Wrong thinking of course, I should have been all over the numbers because they never lie.
I read all the posts, some I agree with others I don’t.
Tyler,Brandon, and others have thier view, it is thier view and they do have a right to express it, as you and I have our right to express ours.
Look all I am saying it’s ok to disagree, with me with anybody, but hell, lets keep it civil. A lot of times people I don’t agree with make points that I failed to see.
I enjoyed reading you’re thoughts
imho
vaporgold