Is Good News on The Horizon For Auto Sales?
- The Worst Auto Sales In 25 Years
- GM Sales Down 45% – Ford Down 30% – Toyota Down 25%
However, we here at Siriusbuzz, and our readers demand information that goes a bit deeper. With that in mind, lets look back 25 years, the date by which current auto sales were compared. The year was 1983. February of 1983 was the bottom for auto sales. The industry was in a dire situation, and things were very bad. In early 1983, the discussion and headlines about car sales were all doom and gloom.
So how is there good news on the horizon? Well, fast forward to January 1984, and you will find an interesting New York Times headline that points to a banner year in the auto industry.
What we may be seeing between now and December of this year is that the bottom in auto sales has been reached, and that when the auto sector turns around, that is can do so in quick order. With gas prices coming down, the election behind us, credit beginning to flow, and stability in the banking system, the worst is perhaps behind us. I will project that auto sales will begin their rebound in December, and that by Presidents Day in 2009, the auto industry will be stabilized.
For satellite radio, the issue is getting through this slow period, and being in a position to grow and respond when auto sales increase. With many analysts projecting a weak auto market through 2009, it is little wonder that they have taken down their estimates. In my opinion, the auto industry will respond faster than many analysts think simply because of the nature of the business.
Cars depreciate with age. Holding onto a car longer means more repairs, and less value down the road. Consumers will begin to feel the pressure of the trade in value of their car, good deals on new cars, and repair costs that could be mounting.
Slumped sales in the auto channel have been happening for a year now. Depressed sales have been happening for a few months. In my opinion, it is virtually impossible for downward year over year comparisons to continue through all of 2009. By example, Merrill Lynch analyst Jessica Reif Cohen has 2008 projected sales at 13.8 million and 2009 sales at 12.4 million. This is calling for another year of slumping sales, something which I disagree with. If we look at sales since 2006, and projected sales, I feel we can see a flaw in the logic.
- 2006 sales – 16,504,400
- 2007 sales – 16,089,310
- 2008 sales – 13,802,438 (Merrill estimate)
- 2009 sales – 12,455,821 (Merrill estimate)
- 2010 sales – 14,946,985 (Merrill estimate)
The auto industry will respond by giving consumers a better value. The used car market will be dryer environment for low mileage used cars, making the new car market more attractive. The dynamics of car buying and selling simply does not lend itself to two plus years of downward sales. The gap that existed between 2007 and 2008 is abnormal, and that will by nature cause i similar reaction to the upside at some point. It is my opinion that these analysts are projecting too gradual a recovery.
For satellite radio, this could mean that a more favorable opinion of the sector will happen when the auto sales become better. Some analysts are projecting doom and gloom for all of 2009. If sales increase faster, satellite will benefit.
Position: Long SIRI
Thanks for your in depth analysis Tyler. I used to read things like this and feel HOPEFUL.
But 3 years in this stock and seeing it go down on both GOOD AND BAD news…I’ve had all the hope beaten out of me.
Here is a breakdown of my 3 year history as a Sirius shareholder. EVERY time I averaged down, it fell further on GOOD news.
My current 5,825 shares are worth a whopping $1,864 at .32 cents
Paid $8,450 for 1300 shares when Sirius was $6.50 a share 3 years ago
Paid $4,347 for 1,350 shares at $3.22 a share 1 year ago
Paid $1,795 for 675 shares at $2.66 a share 8 months ago
Paid $1,980 for 1,500 shares at $1.32 a share 3 months ago
Paid $1,000 for 1,000 shares at $1.00 a share 2 months ago
TOTAL AMOUNT INVESTED: $17,572
TOTAL AMOUNT OF SHARES: 5,825
CURRENT SHARE PRICE: .32 Cents a share
CURRENT VALUE FOR ALL MY SHARES? …..$1,864
TOTAL AMOUNT I HAVE LOST SO FAR?……$15,708!!!!!!!!
FUCK MEL.
TYLER
Would the mergers of ford with a japanese carmaker and gm with chrysler be beneficial to siriusxm?
In my opinion Chrysler is as close to dead as it can get. They will either fall by the wayside as a major brand or be absorbed by GM. The only benefit will be if the GM deal can be renegotiated as a result.
Ford and a japanese maker will strengthen Ford, but I think Ford has good potential on its own. They have some compelling cars coming out in the next 18 months.
If an auto maker wants a big turn around, they should announce a 100% flex fuel policy. People will jump on that in my opinion, and it could give birth to a new industry in fuel in this country
I agree with the article.
Gas prices. Low interest incentives. Life cycle of a automobile.
Same is true regarding housing. Currently you can buy a home, with a house payment about 30% less than renting and benefit tax wise.
Get the housing market positive. Create jobs. People will buy cars and “drive” more.
It’s always at the very top of the hill, when it’s the hardest that you want to quit the most.
Thanks for the article.
mels car im in 2009
But THATS the thing about these types of articles. EVERYTHING they say SHOULD be GREAT news for Sirius.
But HOW MANY times have we read such positive news the past few years? And WHAT difference has it made?
Absolutely NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. NADA!
We are at .32 cents people! We were at $4 a share as a STAND ALONE COMPANY with HALF the subs.
ANY other company would have bounced off these lows never to return.
We can say this is insane all we want. But the fact is…Sirius has gone nothing but down. On good or bad news.
And we are on the verge of a 1 for 50 reverse split. Soon my 5,825 shares will be 116!!!!
I am sooooo tired of this HOPEFUL reading into positive news. What GOOD has it done? Has ANY good news been able to stop this neverending downward spiral so far?
Nope. I rest my case.
We are screwed. I am not a short. As I said, I hold 5,825 shares with an original cost to me of $17,520. They are now worth a meager $1,800.
After the reverse split and the shorts have their way….they’ll probably be worth NOTHING.
Thanks Mel.
I could have been in ESLR if I had my money back. I told everyone when it hit a low of $2.11 to buy.
I predicted it will go back to $12 a share by January if not too much later.
If I had my Sirius funds back, I would have parked it in ESLR.
When it hits $12 again….I would have made $99,000.
Mark my words.
THIS is the Sirius reality. I have missed opportunities like this again and again over the last few years.
I wish I never averaged down. Biggest mistake EVER.
Yeah….but Vaporgold…what if we NEVER reach the top.
Mt Sirius has always TEASED us with the summit. But never delivered.
And if a RS happens…the shorts will cause an avalanche that will all but ensure we NEVER reach the summit in our lifetimes.
$9,000 invested in ESLR last week would be $24,000 this week.
ONE WEEK people.
How much has Sirius made us in 3 YEARS???
I don’t know about you…but I’m down over $15,000.
So I could have made in ONE week with 9 grand that I LOST with 17 grand over 3 years.
And you want me to be HOPEFUL?
WHAT in the past 3 years has EVER been GOOD for someone holding Sirius shares?
Absolutely nothing.
So WHY would anyone fall into the HOPE trap again.
Yes…that’d be GREAT if Sirius went back up.
But I refuse to get excited ever again with regards to this stock and ANY news pertaining to it.
The most manipulated stock EVER in the history of the stock market.
What goes up, must come down.
I too have been anticipating a turnaround in car sales, but I predict that it will be a little later, perhaps in February or March when they start to pick back up.
I would also anticipate Sirius XM renegotiating their deals to increase penetration dramatically over the next year.
And I will call it here first:
Sirius XM Q3 numbers will look horrible due to a TON of one time charges, but the churn will remain stable, and you will hear some surprising numbers regarding subscriber numbers (their estimate of 19.5 million by YE of 08 will nearly be reached already, if not surpassed), information about refinancing (or paying off) of the March debt, as well as very positive numbers regarding Best Of. All of this will lead to a pop in stock price.
Remember, I called it first.
As Seinfeld would say…..NEWMAN!
I have a prediction too. I predict no matter WHAT good news comes out….Sirius goes down.
It’s seem to be true 100% of the time over the last few years….so i kinda like my odds better than yours.
And YES I own(am trapped in) about 5,825 shares.
tyler,
about time you wrote a positive article. (maybe not all your fault)
it always looks darkest before the storm breaks.
I agree with you. The doom and gloom unfortunately only breeds more of the same. If things were to improve a little here and there, and the gas prices not skyrocket again, conditions would be ripe for Sirius/XM to rise from the ashes. If Mel doesn’t see the possibilities, or probability of this potentially happening, then his intuition and business sense are lacking. Too many people love this product/service to just throw in the towel. What bothers me more than anything is the mismanagement and the outright indifference they have towards the subscribers, many of whom are shareholders.
The most important thing at this point – are you listening, Mel? – is to NOT ALIENATE the subscribers YOU ALREADY HAVE !!! How do you do this, you ask? Very simple; do not dilute/cheapen the content, give us EVERYTHING FOR $12.95, and start, RIGHT NOW, being as passionate about this company as millions of loyal subscribers are. Stop ignoring us, for God’s sake! Treat us with the respect that we deserve. Stop trying to squeeze every last penny out of us; you promised lower prices, and you have reneged on that promise. Now you are screwing with the channels. You created this outrageous debt – now stop all the bullshit and do something about it. Whatever it takes…. short of a reverse split or bankruptcy. You should be worshiping the subscribers and investers, not shitting all over them like you have been. This company can turn things around; I have no doubt about that. What I DO DOUBT is the integrity and the commitment of those individuals who’s job is to make this company prosper and to SATISFY THE SUBSCRIBERS!!! Boy’s, it’s time to get off your fat asses and show some heart. Some enthusiasm. Some moxie. Show some pride perhaps. Is that asking too much? I really love Sirius, and I don’t want it to fail. Shouldn’t you (company management) feel the same way?
Steve
…you hit the nail on the head…applause to you fellow stockholder.
Newman – I’m sorry but I call your bluff. There will be some positive spin SiriusXM will put on the CC and earnings report but Libor is still at highs showing us banks won’t even lend to each other. So I don’t think refinancing will be part of the news, but maybe info on what they are doing to pay it off.
Auto sales might start showing some signs of life due in part to some of the reaons mentioned but this is will be minimal based upon what will be happening with our economy the next 3 years.
If anyone has studied the Great Depression and the affects of this will understand what we are about to face. I’m not trying to sound like a doom and gloomer but this goes much deeper than just SiriusXM.
BTW – I’m long 20,000+ shares.
why do we keep deluding ourselves into thinking sirius xm stockholders have hope? car sales are up. they’re down. HAS it made ANY difference? no!!!
the merger was suppose to be great. we were $4 as a stand alone company with 8 million subs….SURELY a merged monopoly with 19 million subs would be worth more.
NOPE!!! WE ARE CURRENTLY AT .32 CENTS
MEL said NO RS or further dilution. YET now they are asking for permission to do a 1 for 50 RS and 4 billion more shares!!!
i am a long, but no longer by choice. my shares are basically worthless. i am trapped more than holding now….and i have every right and reason to say there is no hope for longs.
it just gets to a point when u have to stop banging your head against the wall and wonder WHY you have a headache.
its over people. hope is dead with this stock.
As Jeff Mackie on Fast Money stated recently, “I have Sirius and XM in my car and love the product, but the equity is probably not worth anything.”
What he means is that the stock (equity) is worth zero (0) after the merger. We brought on too much debt. We made a poor deal with the devil to acquire XM and now with a RS and more dilution on the horizon, we’re next to dead.
I sure hope not but that’s what it is right now, hold and hope. And any of you experienced investors out there knows what happens to hold and hopers.
fccfoff sounds alot like friggin, but how could that be ?
TO ALL STOCKHOLDERS…
WE ALL must have conviction…no matter how much we are in the hole…there is hope for the hopeful and no hope for the hopeless.
We must give our investments much more time to grow…just never forget “nothing great is created suddenly”.
With over $11,000 in sIRI I too am behind over $7000. I sold 7500 shares at .36 with an average at 1.38 and now bought back 5000 at .30 and expect to add more shares before mondays 3Q CC to bring my avg down further to under a dollar.
Then be hopeful it will go to 3.00 in the next year or so.
“fccfoff sounds alot like friggin, but how could that be?”
I am wondering that myself… I mean, I know for a fact it is him but, it can’t be him because he said he was out of here. I assure you, it is definitely him.
Hey fccfoff –
You have a very similar tone, story and opinion to a good friend of ours Friggin.
I hope he wasn’t pulling our leg with the story about his sick friend, since we all sincerely wished him well and felt for him.
If it’s him, then he really lost it from this stock.
I still like the company, and I am not prone to backseat drive just yet. Maybe when I have some legit info after Q3 is released, I will think differently. But for the time being, I think the worst case prognostications are not indicative of what we will see over the next 6 months. I am still buying, and if I see ANY light glimmering at the end of the tunnel, I will buy more. The potential of the company is great, The balance sheet is shit, & the credit makkets are horrible. The pps only reflects the bad parts of the equation right now. There is more value here than pps indicates. Just my opinion.
fccfoff sounds alot like frigginregin =)
yes it is me. and yes everything i said was/is true. I am pissed. going thru a bad time. i am allowed. and i AM leaving to Brazil.
By the way, I had to sell about 4,000 of my shares to buy my airline ticket. I am angry at the world right now. For what happened to my friend. For the wasted life these last 3 years in this stock.
If it weren’t for the news that Obama won…I’d be completely devoid of hope.
And yes…I am leaving for awhile. I’ll be back as “myself” on December 1st. FCFOFF was my “handle” I used during the dark 17 month days of the merger delay. I used it when I was COMPLETELY pissed…which I am now.
Maybe I should create a new one “MELFOFF”.
I dunno anymore.
Peace.
fcc, time heals all wounds.keep your head up buddy,dont do nothing stupid your a good person
Yeah, I know. I won’t. I love life. But like cancer, Sirius is a waste of time and life.
I’m channeling ALOT of anger into it right now. But MOST of it is COMPLETELY justified.
I kept doubling down. Averaging down. Instead of listening to that little voice in my head to put my money elsewhere. I’ve been watching Solar and Stem Cell stocks KNOWING Obama would win. And in just a week, all of them on my list have doubled or tripled.
In a WEEK. When has Sirius doubled or tripled in the last 3 years? Um….NEVER. And yet I kept throwing money into it on hype. I broke EVERY one of my rules in investing.
And because of that, for the last 2 years, instead of having all this money, and being able to travel….to live life…to have missed out on being able to say YES! When my friend who I didn’t know was sick was asking me to visit last year, and I had to say NO I can’t…I’m STUCK in this stock right now.
THAT is the memory…the pain I feel when I think about this stock. WHAT COULD have been.
And it is the reason why I have no hope left in this stock whatsoever. HOW COULD I? How could ANYONE when you just look at it’s track record.
It’s been a black hole that has sucked in all our money and our hopes and dreams….and now it wants the rest with this reverse split. Longs like me are doomed. And I apologize for my complete lack of faith or INABILITY to muster ANY kind of HOPE anymore about this stock. I cannot.
I really do blame this stock for all my pain. It took me years to save that money. And Mel stole it.
I leave on the 17th and have lots to do before then. This will definitely be my last post as either FCCFOFF or FRIGGINREGAN until I return.
And NO…i don’t have any other alias.
I just want this to be over you know? I hate to use this analogy…but it has been like a long slow painful death. If Sirius had just stayed flat…like many stocks…I could have just gotten out and called it even. Or if it just DIED right away years ago…I could have moved on.
But noooooo. It had to linger and give us false hope. Suck us in even as it got lower and lower and lower.
It is literally the stock from hell…and I hope it goes back there for good.
Remember how we usedt o cling to hope of the merger approval? How each day we got excited that THIS could be the day? So that even as it got lower…it just looked like a better steal? We believed the hype…only to be dragged thru that emotional hell for 17 months.
Then Mel sold us out.
And NOW we have to wait for the INEVITABLE 1 for 50 reverse split on December 18th. I KNOW those who still can muster “hope” are saying it’s only for show….that Sirius “HAD” to announce that as an option in order to show wall street that they DID have options.
But WHO here in their heart of hearts…after WHAT we’ve been thru ACTUALLY believes that???
I just can’t. I don’t even care about the 3 Q…because I know it’s going to be worse than the 2Q…and THAT was a semi positive…and yet the stock dropped below a buck to where it is today at 30 cents.
Nothing new will be said. It all comes down to the Dec 18th date. The vote will be yes for the RS and dilution….the shorts will come in and destroy whats left of the original longs….and then the company can begin all over again.
You think NOW would be the time to buy thousands and thousands and thousands of shares dirt cheap. But WHY bother if those THOUSANDS will be reduced to mere HUNDREDS after the split…and then killed further by the shorts.
It’d be a waste of money.
EVERYONE knows this…and why no one is buying. Most are waiting.
Us longs are screwed.
Thus endeth my rant.
if u hear another from me before Dec 1st…it’d be a miracle. I am SPENT.
Peace out.
Hey fccfoff (aka Frigginregan)
You wrote: TOTAL AMOUNT I HAVE LOST SO FAR?……$15,708!!!!!!!!
I am happy to see that you recovered $15,000 of the $30,000 that you previously lamented that you lost in SIRI stock.
I, personally, do not believe a word that this person writes.
Keysmark
Friggen,
Please take care of yourself and don’t be a stranger. Write some poetry on your trip. It is good for your soul…
Another step deeper into darkness – closer to the light…
If you ARE keeping such CAREFUL notes on what I write(and I have NEVER lied)…then I guess you just MISSED that I SOLD 4,000 shares of my total 10,000 shares to pay for my friggin plane ticket.
I REFUSE to let you or ANYONE else label me a liar…or worse a SHORT. I have never shorted a stock in my life. EVER.
So if you want to dismiss me to keep your hope alive…don’t. Just keep your hope alive and LEAVE me out of it please.
I have endured more pain with this stock then i even have eluded to.
Say what you want about me. How you think I am wrong. But NEVER EVER EVER FUCKING QUESTION my sincerity or conviction or pain…OR HOW MUCH I LOST.
I’d give you the password to my friggin etrade account if I could.
But then…I have no energy to try to convince you or anyone of anything.
I write from my gut and my heart. Always have always will. And although I get emotional about the pain this stock has caused me…I never need to resort to lies or embellishments to make my point.
I could tell you stories of how the money I lost has cost me. But none more dramatic than what has happened to my friend, and the guilt I feel for not being able to visit her sooner.
“If you ARE keeping such CAREFUL notes on what I write(and I have NEVER lied)…then I guess you just MISSED that I SOLD 4,000 shares of my total 10,000 shares to pay for my friggin plane ticket.”
Let’s see now, 4000 shares times 30 cents = $1200. That does not add up to $15,000.
Mel’s target was based on 12 million for 2008.
13,802,438 (Merrill estimate). I noticed this morning on FM radio, after the election, the quantity of (cheaper) ad’s have increased.
Driver’s will switch to peace and quite.
Gasoline under $2.10 this morning, as the hedge funds who were driving it it up, got wiped out.
The only reason I think we have a shot of not going to .25 cents a share is that the 3rd qtr is on track.
If that is true per Mel, then our next stop is the 4th qtr Xmas season which has always been good.
Now back to the car sales. 13,802,438 units in in 08. SiriusXM sales up because of the pentration rates.
Forecast for 2009- 13,455,821 units, but again according to Mel we will have higher penetration rates so we will be fine.
2010- 14,946,988- almost 15M- This will be a very good year!
Add all the 2 and 3 year old lease cars being turned in that already have sat radio already in them.
We don’t know the capture rate on those units yet, but some used car buyers will activate the sat radios without a doubt.
SiriusXM sales will be OK in 2008, 2009, and really good in 2010. Add used car sat radio activations for the next two years, retail sales, cost cutting, increased ad revenue, synergies etc.
It always comes back to the financing, Feb, May, Dec.
The Feb notes must be serviced and annouced at the 3qtrcc, or we are screwed.
If Mel gets the Feb note serviced we are going up and up.
Vote NO on any RS or issue of more shares. Keep the pressure on SiriusXM mangement to do their jobs, and not a bail out at the expense of us.
imho
vaporgold
Tyler Savery
You have written honest sensible comments about Sirius-XM and their struggles’.
This company could certainly do better, linking-up with skype, microsoft, apple and other communication facilities. I think Mel Karmarzin should be more positive about joining forces with others and go for a much broader world-wide satellite company, He would be able to lower operational costs to practically nothing per subscriber and still charge for elements of commercial free radio whilst charging advertising on the other bands.
Digital radio in the third-world is expected to broadcast via short-wave. Link into this and instead of 18million subcribers he could have 1-billion subscribers in no time. Do a deal with China, Japan, India, Russia.
Mel has to be more enterprising, keep ahead of the game and then Sirius-XM will remain No.1 for many years to come.
Go for it Mel, this is the beginning not the end.
George Wood
Vaporgold.
5 days until earnings. We can say we’ve all been here before and that is true.
Hopefully, Mel got something accomplished since the end of July.
We will know soon.
Keysmark. Who give a flying onehanded drunk fuck!
It’s a blog. We come here to post our thoughts, takes and feeling.
We have writers that provide the best they can find for the day. Tyler has been stepping it up big time. Thank you Tyler.
So to do the math on a poster and attempt to validate words here. C’mon.
Friggen is head of the “Wailing Wall”. And honestly the board is not the same without him or his other alias’ posts.
There is like this conspiracy/paranoia crowd that hovers around these boards, that I just have trouble relating to.
Well. I’m flat lined. Steady. Interested in seeing what the company has to say Monday.
Keep going with how you feel friggen. Later.
Vaporgold
“Keysmark. Who give a flying onehanded drunk fuck!
It’s a blog. We come here to post our thoughts, takes and feeling.”
And I have the same right!
Hey Keysmark.
It’s Socal no Vaporgold who posted that.
You do have the same right.
Have you ever had drunk sex Keysmark?????????
How about hate Sex?
Would loosen you up a bit.
Bush will soon be out of office. THANK GOD !!!!! There is no reason why Sirius/XM can’t hold on just a little longer; support from the government, instead of corruption and opposition, may be right around the corner. Mel, this is no time to give up on the future of satellite radio. I believe it DOES have a future, no matter what these whore analyst say. Do you believe it has a future, Mel? If so, could you start ACTING LIKE IT DOES !!!
Hey Hope.
.29. That do you think?
Who here gets it yet?
Socal…
5 days…All it takes is the Feb addressed favorably.
Then we have some time and the stock will adjust accordingly.
Let’s Hope, we are so over due for some good news for a change, about three years over due. Even last place finishers sometimes finish first.
imho
vaporgold
Does anyone understand the FCC ruling on “white space” and the implications this will have on SDARS?
GetitStraight.
I get that the shorts took back over after the past weeks runup.
I’m looking to make a trade in the .20’s.
That’s what I get.
I hear you on the great depression. And have posted similar thoughts back in September.
I just think that right now things over the next six months are going to move more positive.
If we can remove the “GREED” from Wall St. Things will stabilize and move forward.
I voted Republican. But am openminded enough to have listened to Obama, last night. And believe that there is huge momentum right now for a positive reversal.
So I’m staying in my bubble. LOL. Take care GIS.
Vaporgold. I’m right there with you.
socal
just bought another 6100 for .28 now avg down to .97
socal
i think it goes up from here..last chance for bargain pps…all the bad news is out ans monday should get nice pop up.
yet i am prepared to buy more if it drops to low 20’s and that will be all i need to wait 1-2 yrs for that 3.00 pps
SiriusHope-
You just have to hope they stay afloat and you’ll be ok.
This is the main issue the pps is so low.
I don’t even know if I want to buy at .22 cents ? I’m afraid to lose even more even though the upside could be enormous. You need brass balls here.
Friggin/fccfoff,
What exactly is your position? I’m not trying to be an ass, but you do seem to have differing stances on your history.
Is that breakdown from the first post just the shares you currently own, excluding shares bought then subsequently sold?
Are we going to base our investment decisions on what friggen’s position is? I mean, please.
Yes. My intention was never to try and influence anyone. I’ve learned alot on this board and vented like anyone else.
To answer your question Sirius_Stern_fan….the above position and breakdown of stock shares is what I currently own in my etrade account and my history of when i bought and at what price. Pretty detailed I think.
I did have a seperate Ameritrade account that i opened and bought sirius shares in as well since my brother likes Ameritrade…I don’t tho. Much prefer etrade!
Anyway…that is why the total above is 15 grand short since it doesn’t include the Ameritrade bought shares…of which I was FORCED to sell most of them for the reasons I already gave.
Getitstraight is right. Don’t base anything on me or anyone else.
SXM
I bought the additional shares because i feel that the price to get to my average of .97 is not unrealistic to reach. The only way it can’t is that if a bk is filed no matter how much lowere it can go. I am gambling with just about $11,000. WIN, lose or get even.