Bill Gross Speaks Out

[Atypical]

Yep, it's always extreme to say things that are not generally known or are critical of established institutions. By your standard anyone that suggests that Social Security is wrong after decades and should be abolished is a bomb-thrower then, say like Rand Paul or Sharron Angle. Killing doctors that provide abortions, saying god will provide so we don't need programs that support the needy, saying separation of church/state is wrong, saying like Mitch McConnell just said that making sure Obama is a ONE TERM PRESIDENT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING REPUBS CAN DO - those are extreme and MORE THAN ARROGANT. Can you spell disgusting? Oh, how about starting a war on LIES like Bush did? Do you consider that extreme? Or just comments that you disagree with.

Me exreme? Not so much.

You don't read subjects that disagree with your current views. You have said as much on this site. You may read more than most but the point of view is also important.

Oversimplify conservatives? Their philosophy is simple. That's what makes it interesting for many. This is right - this is wrong. That's it. No nuance or exceptions that mean anything. READ John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience. He's an arrogant, extreme REPUBLICAN.

Yes, we do apparently share some ideas which suggests that it's possible to be a combination of left and right. What a concept! Liberals cannot be all bad then. Tell Limbeck quick.

The TP in everything I have seen are a confused group that have allowed themselves to be used (all of their support comes from conservatives, many very hardline and ARROGANT AND EXTREME TOO) and have accepted conservative thought as being the only correct belief. They carry signs saying Obama is a nazi - he's Hitler. I await an example to show that they are not what I say. Can you provide it?

Me extreme? Surely you jest!

[SiriuslyLong]

The TP in everything I have seen are a confused group that have allowed themselves to be used and have accepted conservative thought as being the only correct belief. I await an example to show this is incorrect. Can you provide it?

I gotta run, but if you're asking me to justify, support, endorse the Tea Party, you'll be waiting a long time. Though do read the 1st ammendment, and think about what the kook in Delaware said.

[Atypical]

My dear S Long (is that a pants size?)

You want arrogant, extreme, vicious, deplorable, disgusting, ugly, nasty, inhuman, sadistic and extreme? (I added that again just for you).

Okay, here it is.

"Anticipating the arrival of new Republican members of Congress, the House Republican Study Committee is asking potential job applicants to who want to work in the House to "fill out ideological surveys on the websites of two conservative organizations." Applicants are then asked to "rate" their level of disagreement with organizations like the Center for American Progress".

Yes, conservative purity above all else. Dislike of anything different or the "other". No balanced views - just IDEOLOGY.

And this.

Television stations in two states have pulled advertisements by the American Action Network, a conservative 501(c)(4) headed by former Senators Norm Coleman and George Allen, because the ads contained flagrant falsehoods: an ad running in Connecticut claimed one could be jailed for not obtaining health insurance under recent health care reform laws, and another in Colorado said the reforms provided Viagra to rapists. The group does not disclose its donors.

Now those are EXTREME! And very, very, very arrogant too.

[SiriuslyLong]

My dear S Long (is that a pants size?)

You want arrogant, extreme, vicious, deplorable, disgusting, ugly, nasty, inhuman, sadistic and extreme? (I added that again just for you).

Okay, here it is.

"Anticipating the arrival of new Republican members of Congress, the House Republican Study Committee is asking potential job applicants to who want to work in the House to "fill out ideological surveys on the websites of two conservative organizations." Applicants are then asked to "rate" their level of disagreement with organizations like the Center for American Progress".

Yes, conservative purity above all else. Dislike of anything different or the "other". No balanced views - just IDEOLOGY.

And this.

Television stations in two states have pulled advertisements by the American Action Network, a conservative 501(c)(4) headed by former Senators Norm Coleman and George Allen, because the ads contained flagrant falsehoods: an ad running in Connecticut claimed one could be jailed for not obtaining health insurance under recent health care reform laws, and another in Colorado said the reforms provided Viagra to rapists. The group does not disclose its donors.

Now those are EXTREME! And very, very, very arrogant too.

It is pretty pathetic. Guys like me can't win. Are you certain liberals don't do the same type of things? I mean here in MI, Dingell is campaigning on "taking on big business". What exactly that means, who knows, but "big business" had been great for the state (GM, Ford, Chrysler...). Both conservatives and liberals both have agendas.

[Atypical]

SL...
All politicians lie but not all in the same degree or for the same reasons.
All politicians twist and distort but the reasons vary. Some reasons are necessary. Knowing the difference between significant issues and unimportant ones is critical.
All corporations want only to increase profits - nothing else matters to a varying degree. They will never agree to regulation regardless of how necessary because their power and income is at risk.
All organizations protect themselves at all costs.
All religions have agendas that may not be proper. They always claim divine protection and intent - god wants us to...
When someone claims god as a reason for anything he/she is lying and should be distrusted from that point forward.
All governments exist to perpetuate themselves and to increase power.
All government programs have fraud, waste and abuse. Corporations are not exempt.
All people are sometimes stupid, vicious and hateful toward others.
All people try to avoid accepting blame to some degree for anything they've done wrong. Some will actually blame others and not care. Many are incapable of empathy and see it as being weak.
Human psychology must be understood to evaluate motives when people do certain things. Everyone dislikes someone without a good reason.
All the bad people are sometimes good and all the good people are sometimes bad.
All people dislike changing their beliefs. Some can be persuaded and most resist it completely.
All people use ideology to some extent to decide things. Some have no reason except emotion and peer-group pressure. Details annoy them.
All experts can be stupid or lie and manipulate sometimes for their own benefit. Experts can be wrong.
All people are neurotic in some way. This affects their behavior and thoughts.
Most people like and respect authority figures. It calms them and allows them to let others think for them. This is frightening.
Allmost all people are at least partially out of touch with why they think and do certain things. More are out of touch with why they do anything - and they like it that way.
The MSM are profit-making entities that care about not pissing-off the ones that provide their profits. They are overwhelmingly conservative and promote what they feel contributes to their economic health. Therefore, do not expect to be told unpleasant, extreme, blunt truths. Eighty percent of all media is controlled by six companies. Ninety-three percent of talk radio, even before Air America's expiration, was conservative. Slanted - obviously. They have an agenda.

There is more but this should suffice.

What has to be done then is to know how to think about all this. Knowing how to analyze anything while keeping all of this in mind is job one. It's obviously complex. That's why information, more and more and more of it can only help because it's easy to overlook important facts that may affect your view. You should always be ready to change your view if comprehensive, objective, non-ideological evidence becomes available.

If one knows these and other things you will be skeptical and have a chance to avoid being conned or blindly accepting what you are told. Always question authority. No one cares about your interests. They care about THEIR interests.

Knowing this is the beginning of wisdom.

[Atypical]

[QUOTE=SiriuslyLong;65585]You are one serious dude, almost extreme. You know, it's > 4 PM, go have yourself a beer. There is time for that and all your other interests.

Oh, by the way, I forget to tell you that I can suggest books that can show why I make certain (what you call "extreme") comments. Especially about religious fanatics. I don't make this shit up. Objective, comprehensive, factual evidence. That's only what I care about. Interested?

Ask me or shut up!

[SiriuslyLong]

[QUOTE=Atypical;65625]

You are one serious dude, almost extreme. You know, it's > 4 PM, go have yourself a beer. There is time for that and all your other interests.

Oh, by the way, I forget to tell you that I can suggest books that can show why I make certain (what you call "extreme") comments. Especially about religious fanatics. I don't make this shit up. Objective, comprehensive, factual evidence. That's only what I care about. Interested?

Ask me or shut up!

You're challanging the wrong guy. I am not religious and abandend the republican party due to religion. I don't need a book for that. I don't make this shit up! Atypical, you are extreme, and unique, and I agree with the post above. In fact I like it. It's cynical as hell as am I. Don't trust anyone / get to the bottom of things to see the real motive, is excellent advice. We disagree on the structure and role of government, and that's fine.

You know, Lloyd has challanged me over and over again to argue with John because I profess to be independent. I've never seen you question him? Is it because your ideology has a common denominator? You've enlightend me to challange motive...... You do seem to be more open minded than him.

[Atypical]

There seems to be an echo in here. Anyway, you do need a book to see the evidence for potentially dangerous actions by AMERICANS.

Am I extreme in a "nice" way? Let me know or I'll be up all night.

The definition of a cynic is an informed optimist. I don't consider controlled cynicism necessarily a weakness. If one knows how the world really works it is the only way to be informed so you can protect yourself and truly understand.

As I don't know Havakasha except on this site all I know is what I read. One of the many things I could have added to the post above is how style and timing also affect your perception of a person or event.

His style is usually to be brief. I am prone to explain more. (Lloyd if you disagree with my comments let me know) So that's a smaller target on which to comment. BUT having said that his points are solid as are the articles he posts. If I saw a reason to comment I would. We apparently agree based on what we post. Perhaps if there were more interaction (more posters and more comments) there would be more possibility of disagreement (or not).

I don't know that I am any more open-minded. Remember brevity and style. Lloyd also likes to chide others. I don't usually do that. Style.

Finally, you frequently make remarks as you just did - "Don't trust anyone / get to the bottom of things to see the real motive, is excellent advice," and "
You've enlightend me to challange motive"...... But then you apparently continue to accept sources that clearly have little credibility.

Libertarianism is utopian and therefore essentially without merit. It appeals to those that like simplicity, cut and dried. There is little "gray area" so adherents don't have to accept nuance and complexity. Straight-forward unadorned rigidity. It has always had connections to right-wing supremicist, anti-government and other fringe beliefs. It is also anti-human in its extremism. (See the sentence in line 15 above). And apparently you respect it. Rand Paul and his father are examples of this philosophy. Have you studied what they believe? Do you like what they say OVERALL?

If you realize that you should beware of "false gods" you would reject most of that stuff. THAT WOULD NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A LIBERAL OR COMPLETELY CHANGE YOUR VIEWS. But it would moderate them. Isn't that a worthwhile goal - to be "extreme" only when necessary (with solid evidence) because only accepting one narrow view can leave out much of potential value? If you claim to be aware and appreciate much of what I wrote then you should recognize that, in some ways, you could be narrow. If you don't see that, you ARE narrow.

Incidentally, I don't consider that I have an ideology as that is generally considered mostly an unchangeable philosophy even though the dictionary I read doesn't stress that. An ideologue is unchangeable.

I have a framework and a set of principles that are connected to that framework. I have spelled out what they are in detail previously on this site. Anyone who wonders why I say what I do can have no excuse for not knowing the reasons except they don't care. That I understand.

[SiriuslyLong]

"BUT having said that his points are solid as are the articles he posts"

Everrything is solid because everything is liberal - FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS.

"Libertarianism is utopian and therefore essentially without merit" Oh yes, Atypical, the enlightened one, has spoken - therefore it shall be done. LMFAO.

One thing is for sure, you most certainly are full of yourself.