SIRI Intraday Thursday 7-16-09

[SiriusBuzz]

You just dont get it do you. Fact every service that beats SIRIXM in the Iphone app in the music catagory is a free service. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding is right in front of you and you still dont get it. You are a dimwit if you cant get this fact.

Calling me names does not strengthen your argument. Its not my opinion people pay for things that they can get for free every single day. There are also paid versions the outperform free things every day.

You cant compare a free service that is competeing in the same catagory as a pay service. Your cable/satellite TV analogy is a false one. Imagine if all they had on cable was the same channels as regular TV, would people pay for basically the same thing, no. People are paying for a multitude of extra channels that just are not avalible on regular TV. A case in point The Stern, comic, and Playboy channels alone make the service for many a reason to pay for it (all of which have commercials by the way).

Exactly my point. Are you saying that Pandora and Sirius XM offer the same thing? I dont think they do. Just like my point about Cable TV vs Free TV. You need to make the paid version of something attractive enough that people will abandon the free version. Just like SATRAD is doing to terrestrial. I am sorry you dont agree but much like you think your point is correct, I am also sure that my own point is correct.

As a side note it took cable much longer to become as popular as satellite radio is today. Taking the same time frames more people were watching free TV over cable. It really wasn't till the selection of channels became so great that it really started to get the masses.

But... they did it...which is what Sirius XM needs to do. Their paid service needs to be compelling enough to beat a free service. I dont know why you get mad at me and then agree with me.

for if the comparison is carried forward the cost of these dounuts was only .89 and the free 1 and 2 day old ones were gone and the others never did become empty. There were plenty of them for the next day you jackass. Are you getting the point yet.

Being an internet tough guy is unbecoming. You are playing with numbers and playing semantics. You can play with the numbers until it makes sense, that is what Sirius XM has to do. Maybe in this analogy Sirius XM has ever better content then they do now and more features and that donut only costs $.10 while Pandora is free... now which one will people want?

Again, regardless of anyones feelings, Sirius XM is on the same list as Pandora and if you dont think they can ever beat them, that is fine, I just dont agree. With the right technology, features, and pricing structures, they can... just like any other free vs paid application or service.

So in a closing slap in the face to wake you up what do you think would happen if the Iphone had a app service that allowed a service for TV, there is a free one that offers ABC, CBS, and NBC, then cable had one that offered the same three channels but you had to pay to get their service. I think we know which app would be more popular right. Do you get it yet, both Pandora and SIRIXM are competing in the same catagory with basically the same thing music.

I had no idea that you thought Sirius XM and Pandora were so similar, if that is your argument, then I agree with your point in principle.

Personally, I do not believe that to be the case and I think most fans of the service and members of this board will disagree that they are the "basically the same thing." BTW the word "basically" means that they are not equal... which has been my point from the get go.

[john]

"Calling me names does not strengthen your argument. Its not my opinion people pay for things that they can get for free every single day. There are also paid versions the outperform free things every day."


Charles you can say that all you want but if a person by now doesn't get it by now then they are a twit and I will call a twit a twit.

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"Exactly my point. Are you saying that Pandora and Sirius XM offer the same thing? I dont think they do. Just like my point about Cable TV vs Free TV. You need to make the paid version of something attractive enough that people will abandon the free version. Just like SATRAD is doing to terrestrial. I am sorry you dont agree but much like you think your point is correct, I am also sure that my own point is correct."



God dam, you just dont get it. IN THAT CATAGORY THEY ARE THE SAMETHING. I think it was "bassmaster" that found when you break the catagories into different sub sections (like pay services) that SIRIXM is ether at the top or near the top in most of them.
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"Being an internet tough guy is unbecoming. You are playing with numbers and playing semantics. You can play with the numbers until it makes sense, that is what Sirius XM has to do. Maybe in this analogy Sirius XM has ever better content then they do now and more features and that donut only costs $.10 while Pandora is free... now which one will people want?"


Yes I get pissed because you keep trying to compare the two in the same catagory and they are not even in the same catagory and it is nomore unbecoming then being a twit that you are being here. Ontop of that cable only started to be popular when they started to give a huge multitude of channels compared to regular TV. They could not even get people to switch in great numbers when they offered people 10 times as many channels. As for the terrestrial they still have a overwheming lead in that sector, my god SIRIXM has what 15.5 million selfpaid compared to terrestrials 265 million (not including much of the population due to age and legal status). The way they get to the point where cable and satellite TV is, is another arguement.

I have to ask, can you make money off a 10 cent dounut???? No

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"I had no idea that you thought Sirius XM and Pandora were so similar, if that is your argument, then I agree with your point in principle.

Personally, I do not believe that to be the case and I think most fans of the service and members of this board will disagree that they are the "basically the same thing." BTW the word "basically" means that they are not equal... which has been my point from the get go."


Come on, you do know it was an example as to show what is being compared in your case. ONCE AGAIN WHY IN THE SAME CATAGORY A PAY SERVICE AND A FREE ONE CANNOT BE COMPARED. In the catagory you are talking about they are the same. The fact is though SIRIXM has a multitude of other catagories that Pandora does not have, DHAAAAA.
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Charles I will once again explain this to you and be as clear as possible.


First of all to even consider the two in the same ball park, every person that has a Iphone has to be paying for a SIRIXM subscribtion. That alone should tell you that the two could never be compared to each other. A moron would already have figured out that it put SIRIXM at a disadvantage right from the start.

So now are you going to try and say ether it did not put them at a disadvantage or that everyone that has a Iphone has a SIRIXM subscription????? Ether way, you look like a moron, and thats why I called you a twit because I had told you this before and you still did not get it.


I cant make it any clearer then I just did. If you cant get it from what I just wrote then you cant be helped.

[SiriusBuzz]

A moron would already have figured out that it put SIRIXM at a disadvantage right from the start.

When did I say that they were not at a disadvantage at the start? What I am saying is that they can and should close that disadvantage by adding enough value to justify the increased cost. That is what they have to do OR they can just lay down and lets these "free" companies beet their online offering. That is not opinion, its fact. I think that you are saying that they can not beet them (although I am not sure) all I am saying is that they can and should. Who here doesn't want that?

1. I am not looking to be "helped", I have my opinion and you have yours And for the record, I am still not sure you are arguing against my point.
2. I am still not clear on what is the basis of your thoughts... is Sirius XM the same as Pandora or are their services different? If they are different, then once again, my point stands... they need to ad enough value to be worth paying for... which has been my point all along. I dont think they are the same thing and all things equal free can not compete with paid... AGAIN, I do not and I think all will agree that all things are not equal when it comes to these two companies.

That is what always differentiates free vs paid competition, the paid version of some product has to have more value than the free version otherwise they will not survive. There is no arguing with that. The point of every analogy whether donuts or beer is that all things are not equal, the donut is day old or of lesser quality.

The goal of Sirius XM should be to add more features, include better content, and if necessary extend the trial period... and if that doesn't work, they need to offer reduced one year rates for new customers to get them hooked... that is what companies do to compete.

[john]

Charles, your point was that Pandora is beating SIRIXM in the Iphone app and that it could be different if SIRIXM did different things. My point is that of course Pandora is and to think it would not is ridiculous. That is after all what got this thing started. I dont think it was a quintessence that at the time that the app for SIRIXM was beating Pandora was the same time SIRIXM was giving the service for free. That is the only time inwhich they were equal and the only time they could be compared on the same level and we know SIRIXM beat Pandora hands down FOR THAT TIME PERIOD. My point is and will always be that to try and take anything from the download rate of each app (Pandora VS. SIRIXM) is ridiculous. As a matter of fact until SIRIXM has all of the present Iphone users as SIRIXM subscribers it can never be able to even start to be compared.


SO GET OFF THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS RIDICULOUS AND YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUS WHEN YOU TRY TO.



I mean god dam it is not that hard to get!

Repost:
"First of all to even consider the two in the same ball park, every person that has a Iphone has to be paying for a SIRIXM subscribtion. That alone should tell you that the two could never be compared to each other. A moron would already have figured out that it put SIRIXM at a disadvantage right from the start.

So now are you going to try and say ether it did not put them at a disadvantage or that everyone that has a Iphone has a SIRIXM subscription????? Ether way, you look like a moron, and thats why I called you a twit because I had told you this before and you still did not get it."

[SiriusBuzz]

SO GET OFF THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS RIDICULOUS AND YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUS WHEN YOU TRY TO.

I mean god dam it is not that hard to get!

Sorry, I simply do not agree. They have been placed in the same main app category and now they will compete whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Regardless of their category placement they are compared to by consumers as competition which is all I or anyone else should care about. It is Sirius XM's job to compete with these companies and they will have to as they continue to grow.

[relmor2003]

"They have been placed in the same main app category and now they will compete whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Regardless of their category placement they are compared to by consumers as competition which is all I or anyone else should care about. It is Sirius XM's job to compete with these companies and they will have to as they continue to grow. "
Charles's quote is above.



But its the only category you talk about. Was is it Otone? who said they are listed in like 5 other categories? Remember, that category has been your focus not ours. Therefore you must defend your position on it. I have no need to prove anything, as I never stated it important to be higher than Pandora. But I was laughing when it was, to beat a free app is embarrassing for them, no matter how long it was.
I am more interested finding out the 2.99 and the new sub take rate on the app, than the number of downloads they have vs. pandora and slacker. Im also more worried about there total number of downloads(after one or two months of settling in, to see where a good pace would be, as it has no equal on the download list. No direct competition to compare there TOTAL NUMBER OF DOWNLOADS too).
So its not important to me to see Pandora so high, that is only important to you and Tyler it appears. So therefore you must defend why. Your not doing a very good job in my opinion.
John is an ass, we know this. And he makes it hard to pull for him. But his points are valid, in my opinion. Just like him knowing im crazy makes it hard for him to agree with me.

Basically I think my opinion is best summarized like this.
Dont even mention Pandora when you talk about the app. Its not comparable. Mention the total number of downloads they are getting, period. Compared to NOTHING. Thats how you measure SiriusXM. Against themselves now. As it always is, and will be for a long time now. When you look at SiriusXM numbers, who do you compare them too? Maybe Clear Channel? Maybe... Not really that relevent though. Pandoras numbers? Nope, you would be laughed at in the CC, if an analyst mentioned Pandoras numbers. So there out. CBS radio? Worse comparision than Clear Channel.
Well we used to compare XM to Sirius. NOw they are comparable to no one. You could get more information from comparing there sub numbers percentage to other sub services like DirectTV, Dish, COMCAST, but thats video, not radio anyway. Only a basic guide. ONe might say, well DIrectTV is adding subs, why cant SiriusXM>? Be a bad take, but better than telling me Pandora is downloading more than SiriusXM. That information to me is useless. 100 percent USELESS. Did i stutter?
Why I wrote the comment on Tylers article about how Pandora is rising vs. Siriuxm. So what. That isnt information usefull to me, other than to know that SiriusXM isnt still rocking out, and embarrassing pandoras rates. Is Pandora going up? because they are getting more downloads vs. the other apps? Is siriusxm going up, just not as fast? Not useful to just tell me there places, as I dont consider them competition, and even if they are the information is still incomplete, as both companies downloads could be going up or even down at different rates.

[bassmaster]

"They have been placed in the same main app category and now they will compete whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Regardless of their category placement they are compared to by consumers as competition which is all I or anyone else should care about. It is Sirius XM's job to compete with these companies and they will have to as they continue to grow. "
Charles's quote is above.



But its the only category you talk about. Was is it Otone? who said they are listed in like 5 other categories? Remember, that category has been your focus not ours. Therefore you must defend your position on it. I have no need to prove anything, as I never stated it important to be higher than Pandora. But I was laughing when it was, to beat a free app is embarrassing for them, no matter how long it was.
I am more interested finding out the 2.99 and the new sub take rate on the app, than the number of downloads they have vs. pandora and slacker. Im also more worried about there total number of downloads(after one or two months of settling in, to see where a good pace would be, as it has no equal on the download list. No direct competition to compare there TOTAL NUMBER OF DOWNLOADS too).
So its not important to me to see Pandora so high, that is only important to you and Tyler it appears. So therefore you must defend why. Your not doing a very good job in my opinion.
John is an ass, we know this. And he makes it hard to pull for him. But his points are valid, in my opinion. Just like him knowing im crazy makes it hard for him to agree with me.

Basically I think my opinion is best summarized like this.
Dont even mention Pandora when you talk about the app. Its not comparable. Mention the total number of downloads they are getting, period. Compared to NOTHING. Thats how you measure SiriusXM. Against themselves now. As it always is, and will be for a long time now. When you look at SiriusXM numbers, who do you compare them too? Maybe Clear Channel? Maybe... Not really that relevent though. Pandoras numbers? Nope, you would be laughed at in the CC, if an analyst mentioned Pandoras numbers. So there out. CBS radio? Worse comparision than Clear Channel.
Well we used to compare XM to Sirius. NOw they are comparable to no one. You could get more information from comparing there sub numbers percentage to other sub services like DirectTV, Dish, COMCAST, but thats video, not radio anyway. Only a basic guide. ONe might say, well DIrectTV is adding subs, why cant SiriusXM>? Be a bad take, but better than telling me Pandora is downloading more than SiriusXM. That information to me is useless. 100 percent USELESS. Did i stutter?

it was me. but its more relevant to searching keywords. such as "talk radio" or "personalities" ,etc.

i made a point the other day that it doesnt matter how high the app is ranked IMO, just the take rate/conversion rate. the app could be ranked #1 and no one converts does that make it a success and profitable, NO. the app could be ranked 30th and the take/conversion rate is 2-3% and it is a big success.

[relmor2003]

it was me. but its more relevant to searching keywords. such as "talk radio" or "personalities" ,etc.

i made a point the other day that it doesnt matter how high the app is ranked IMO, just the take rate/conversion rate. the app could be ranked #1 and no one converts does that make it a success and profitable, NO. the app could be ranked 30th and the take/conversion rate is 2-3% and it is a big success.

Damn. You just put in 2 sentences what I tried to say in 3 paragraphs. Nice!!!
LOL
All I want to see too. Exactly. Ill take 20 new subs out of 1000 if they are a paying sub.

[SiriusBuzz]

But its the only category you talk about. Was is it Otone? who said they are listed in like 5 other categories? Remember, that category has been your focus not ours. Therefore you must defend your position on it.

It's not hard to defend, if I must (although I dont see any reason that I HAVE to). The music category is far more heavily trafficked than the other categories you mention. All directories have hot spots, although not a directory per say, the forums here have 10x as much traffic in the stock forums as compared to the others. Other websites/online directories are all the same.

I have no need to prove anything, as I never stated it important to be higher than Pandora. But I was laughing when it was, to beat a free app is embarrassing for them, no matter how long it was.

Its still funny even with the mass media covereage and the print/online ad campaign? I would think it only would have been funny if they did not. Just one mans opinion.

I am more interested finding out the 2.99 and the new sub take rate on the app, than the number of downloads they have vs. pandora and slacker. Im also more worried about there total number of downloads(after one or two months of settling in, to see where a good pace would be, as it has no equal on the download list. No direct competition to compare there TOTAL NUMBER OF DOWNLOADS too).

I am more concerned about the take rate on new subscribers but, point taken, and I totally agree that its all about the take rate. As for the total number of downloads... the way lists work is that the top ranked "result" gets more traffic/exposure than the second "result" by a factor of 10 or more.... its scary. Getting to the number 1 spot for a keyword in Googles results often means that you will get 10x more traffic then the second place result and 100x more then the third with the rest of the traffic getting spread very thin for the 4th-10th results and almost non existent in comparison by the second page.

So its not important to me to see Pandora so high, that is only important to you and Tyler it appears.

Which should tell you something. Its not just me and we RARELY talk.

So therefore you must defend why. Your not doing a very good job in my opinion.

That doesnt make much sense to me... all things equal we both started with no opinions... I took mine and now you have taken yours... you have just as much duty to defend your position if you are so inclined, although, I have never asked for it. I am simply giving my thoughts, do with them what you will.

Basically I think my opinion is best summarized like this.
Dont even mention Pandora when you talk about the app. Its not comparable.

Dont mention the app/company that holds the spot you should be gunning for?

Mention the total number of downloads they are getting, period. Compared to NOTHING. Thats how you measure SiriusXM.

They are getting 10x less then they could be.... maybe more. You cant overlook that unless you are willing to admit they could never improve. For example, when we started this website we were not in the top 10 results for a lot of things... should I have just concerned myself with what I was getting or what I could achieve? Its a good think I was concerned with what I could achieve because we now easily get 100x more traffic from Google alone then when we first started.

Pandoras numbers? Nope, you would be laughed at in the CC, if an analyst mentioned Pandoras numbers. So there out.

But this is now and in the context of the Apple App Store its all I will compare them to because its the only other app in their league... for now. If you want to overlook them as a full blown competitor, that is your prerogative.

[relmor2003]

I think we are just repeating ourselves now Charles. I reread my post. My points stand. Your points stand. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree here, but I respect your opinion on it. The bottom line is the take rate, and overall download total. Not where Pandora is. But if they want to be cute, and have some marketing goals, I would think to stay in the top 5 music apps would be important.