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  1. FoolNHisMoney is offline
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    02-20-2009, 04:13 PM #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    As far as the 301 million, that would only have to be paid if Sirius cancels the investment agreement that gives Malone 40%of the company. Basically they would have to get a large loan to cover all outstanding 2009 debt plus 301 million. Malone doesn't HAVE to call the loan in, but my guess is he used this clause to make it more difficult to cancle the investment agreement
    My read is that this is only if Sirius cancels the Investment Agreement before Dec 31, 2009. My interpretation is that they can cancel the Investment Agreement without penalty to the Sirius Credit Agreement after 2009. Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8-K;
    If, prior to December 31, 2009, we elect to terminate the Investment Agreement (as defined below), the lenders under the Sirius Credit Agreement may require prompt repayment at 105% of face amount.

  2. Demian is offline
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    02-21-2009, 04:24 AM #32
    This article belongs in this thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    I thought this article explains liberty;s interest in Sirius ...They will make sure sirius survives for 3 years at least.. WSJ .com article 2/20/09 8:07pm


    Some investors are baffled why media titans John Malone and Charles Ergen are competing to throw money at Sirius XM Radio Inc., the money-losing satellite-radio company that was perilously close to bankruptcy.

    But in fact, the company's most valuable asset could be precisely all the money it has lost.

    Sirius XM has at least $6 billion of tax losses, according to securities filings. That means that the losses it has accumulated over the years can be used as deductions to cut taxes on future profits. As long as those losses stay with Sirius, they have little value, securities filings show, because the company's future prospects for significant profits are still slim.

    But in the eventual hands of another company, like Mr. Malone's Liberty Media Corp., those tax losses could become extremely valuable, helping to wipe more than $6 billion in taxable income off of its income tax returns -- thus some day cutting Liberty's corporate income-tax bill by more than $2 billion.

    Tax concerns are often a big driver of corporate deal making, but few players maneuver through the tax code as thoroughly as Mr. Malone. In 2006, he acquired the Atlanta Braves in a way that enabled Liberty to effectively cash out its stake in Time Warner without incurring taxes.

    Similarly, Sirius's tax losses are considered a key part of the company's appeal to Liberty, according to people familiar with the matter. They were considered less significant to Mr. Ergen, who bought up Sirius debt in hopes of adding Sirius to his strategic arsenal of satellite assets. On Tuesday, Liberty announced it would rescue the company from a bankruptcy filing with a $530 million loan. Liberty will receive a 40% stake in Sirius.

    Companies often have tax losses. But experts say it is unusual that they are potentially a firm's most valuable asset, as with Sirius. The only asset that is comparable is the company's collection of radio wave spectrum licenses granted by the Federal Communications Commission valued at $2 billion, according to a Sirius securities filing. "That's uncommon that the [tax loss] would be ... the most valuable asset," said Robert Willens, who runs a corporate tax advisory firm.

    However, for Liberty to maximize the use of those tax losses, it must navigate Internal Revenue Service rules intended to prevent companies from acquiring others solely for their losses -- so-called "trafficking in losses."

    Indeed, that issue is getting renewed attention: In late September, the Treasury Department lifted those tax-loss restrictions for some companies to encourage a spate of bank mergers. Congress effectively repealed Treasury's move for future bank deals as part of the recent stimulus package.

    The IRS curbs already kicked in after the Sirius XM merger was closed in last July and limit how much of the losses can be used as tax deductions each year.

    Based on those rules, Mr. Willens estimates that, for the first five years that the tax losses could be used, Sirius is limited to about $580 million a year in deductions stemming from the losses. After that, it drops even lower, to about $250 million a year for the next 15 years. Thus, all the losses would be used, but not immediately, which reduces their effective value. People familiar with the matter confirmed that those estimates are in the range of the company's working projections.

    Another complication hangs over these tax losses. If ownership of the company changes again, the use of the tax losses would become even more limited, according to IRS rules. That is because the restrictions are calculated based in part on the market value of the company -- which is roughly 10% of what it was when the Sirius XM merger closed.

    Under IRS rules, the restrictions on the use of the tax losses kick in if the company's major shareowners increase their ownership stakes by more than 50 percentage points. Liberty's current 40% investment is restricted to no more than 49.9% for the next three years, which prevents the Liberty deal from triggering another ownership change.

    There is an additional wrinkle: If another investor purchased enough stock to give it a stake of 5% or more during the next three years, that could combine with Liberty's stake to trigger those restrictions anew. Sirius can implement trading restrictions to prevent that. At current values, a new restriction on the losses could cause Sirius to lose about 80% of its tax losses over the next 20 years, according to Mr. Willens.

    Absent such changes, Liberty would then be free to acquire the rest of Sirius in three years and use all the losses to shelter taxable profits elsewhere.

  3. Demian is offline
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    02-21-2009, 04:29 AM #33
    So SIRI and Liberty both have a right to walk away.....with certain conditions.

    http://www.radioworld.com/article/74738

    Liberty Bails Out Sirius XM
    02.20.2009

    Sirius XM has a temporary reprieve from bankruptcy thanks to a $530 million loan from Liberty Media, which now gets a 40% equity stake in the satellite radio company and becomes its single largest shareholder.

    The deal from the company that owns DirecTV and the Discovery channel pays some of Sirius XM's debts and may have saved the job of CEO Mel Karmazin, according to some analysts, who said creditors had warned that if the satcaster filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, they likely would have ousted Karmazin.

    The loan comes with a high interest rate: 15%. Liberty Chairman John Malone and CEO Greg Maffei will take seats on the Sirius board. Liberty may get a third seat as well out of 12.

    Liberty gave Sirius $250 million immediately, allowing the satcaster to pay off $175 million in debt that was due Tuesday to Dish Network Chairman Charlie Ergen; he also had sought a stake in Sirius and had been negotiating with the satcaster until a week ago.

    While Ergen planned on using the wireless spectrum assets of Sirius to roll out new services like mobile TV, Maffei played down any benefits from combining radio and TV, telling the Wall Street Journal, "There are few operating synergies."

    Sirius hasn't commented on why it decided the Liberty deal was better than Ergen's.

    Sirius XM is not out of the woods; it still faces another $350 million debt payment in May and $400 million debt payment in December. Sirius could use the extra money from Liberty to help make the May payment and use it own cash flow for the remainder.

    However, Sirius and Liberty said the loan is structured in two phases, with Liberty's obligation to provide the second loan subject to "certain closing conditions." Those give Liberty the right to walk away before the second payment should Sirius' financial conditions worsen, according to analysts.
    Last edited by Demian; 02-21-2009 at 04:32 AM.

  4. SiriusXMInvestor is offline
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    02-21-2009, 11:12 AM #34
    "Sirius XM is not out of the woods; it still faces another $350 million debt payment in May and $400 million debt payment in December. Sirius could use the extra money from Liberty to help make the May payment and use it own cash flow for the remainder."

    Sirius does not owe $400 million in Dec. It is, I believe, $224. Why can't these retard writers ever get anything right? This is a perfect example why you cannot believe everything you read.

  5. Demian is offline
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    02-21-2009, 01:59 PM #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusXMInvestor View Post
    "Sirius XM is not out of the woods; it still faces another $350 million debt payment in May and $400 million debt payment in December. Sirius could use the extra money from Liberty to help make the May payment and use it own cash flow for the remainder."

    Sirius does not owe $400 million in Dec. It is, I believe, $224. Why can't these retard writers ever get anything right? This is a perfect example why you cannot believe everything you read.
    You are correct SiriusXMInvestor. The Dec. debt amount cited is incorrect - it is actually $260.7 million (with the Honda debt due 12/31 included). $172.5 million of the 400 million due 12/1 was extended out to 2011 about a week ago. The article fails to mention that after the cash infusion from Malone, the amount remaining that SIRI actually has to come up with is pretty small - nor does it mention that the May bank debt could likely be extended...

    Here is a breakdown of the remaining '09 debt, which is mostly XM's.....

    SIRIUS '09 DEBT

    8 3/4% Convertible Subordinated Notes due 9/29/2009 ($1.74 million outstanding)
    SIRI.GA / CUSIP: 125127AJ9
    http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/Bon...D=MTI1MTI3QUo5


    XM '09 Debt

    Senior Secured Term Loan due 5/5/2009 ($100 million outstanding)
    ...BANK LOAN...

    Senior Secured Revolving Credit Facility due 5/5/2009 ($250 million outstanding)
    ...BANK LOAN...

    10% Convertible Senior Notes due 12/1/2009 ($227.5 million outstanding)
    XMRD.GI / CUSIP: 983759AC5
    http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/Bon...D=OTgzNzU5QUM1

    10% Senior Secured Discount Convertible Notes due 12/31/2009 ($33.2 million outstanding)
    ...PRIVATELY HELD BY HONDA MOTORS OF AMERICA...

    TOTAL: $612.44 million remaining '09 debt due
    Last edited by Demian; 02-21-2009 at 03:56 PM.

  6. sxminvestor is offline
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    02-21-2009, 02:08 PM #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Demian View Post
    You are correct SiriusXMInvestor. The Dec. debt amount cited is incorrect - it is actually 227.5 million. $172.5 million of the 400 million was extended out to 2011 about a week ago. The article fails to mention that after the cash infusion from Malone, the amount remaining that SIRI actually has to come up with is pretty small - nor does it mention that the May bank debt could likely be extended...

    Here is a breakdown of the remaining '09 debt, which is mostly XM's.....

    SIRIUS '09 DEBT

    8 3/4% Convertible Subordinated Notes due 9/29/2009 ($1.74 million outstanding)
    SIRI.GA / CUSIP: 125127AJ9
    http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/Bon...D=MTI1MTI3QUo5


    XM Debt

    Senior Secured Term Loan due 5/5/2009 ($100 million outstanding)
    ...BANK LOAN...

    Senior Secured Revolving Credit Facility due 5/5/2009 ($250 million outstanding)
    ...BANK LOAN...

    10% Convertible Senior Notes due 12/1/2009 ($227.5 million outstanding)
    XMRD.GI / CUSIP: 983759AC5
    http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/Bon...D=OTgzNzU5QUM1

    10% Senior Secured Discount Convertible Notes due 12/31/2009 ($33.2 million outstanding)
    ...PRIVATELY HELD BY HONDA MOTORS OF AMERICA...

    TOTAL: $612.44 million remaining '09 debt due
    Basically, if Sirius can come up with a superior agreement for the 600M by April 15th, then they get out of Liberty deal. If they can only get a 250M loan, then Liberty will take care if the rest and take their 40% share and seats on the BOD.

    I like our chances.

  7. Demian is offline
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    02-21-2009, 03:09 PM #37
    This from the 8K......

    http://investor.sirius.com/sec.cfm

    The closing and funding of the XM Credit Agreement is subject to several conditions, including: (i) XM’s existing credit agreements being amended to extend the maturity of the loans to a date and on terms reasonably satisfactory to Liberty Media Corporation, (ii) Liberty Media Corporation purchasing assignments of loans outstanding under such existing credit facilities in an aggregate principal amount of up to $100 million
    This from the PR.....

    http://investor.sirius.com/releasede...leaseID=365423

    The second phase provides an additional loan of $150 million to XM
    Satellite Radio, SIRIUS XM's wholly owned subsidiary. Liberty has
    also agreed to offer to purchase up to $100 million of the loans
    outstanding under XM Satellite Radio's existing credit facilities
    from the lenders.

    So let me get this straight...

    Phase 2 of the deal with Liberty gives 40% of the company away for a $150 million dollar loan @ 15% interest and Liberty agreeing "to offer to purchase up to $100 million of the loans outstanding under XM Satellite Radio's existing credit facilities from the lenders."


    "Up to $100 million"? So it could be less, but not more? SIRI still has to pay Liberty back for the "up to $100 million" of debt that they buy?

    Is 40% of the company really only worth a $150 million loan @ 15% interest?


    Mel has got to be shopping around for a better deal than this....
    Last edited by Demian; 02-21-2009 at 04:02 PM.

  8. m4svt is offline
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    02-21-2009, 03:53 PM #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Demian View Post
    Mel has got to be shopping around for a better deal than this....
    you know he is.

    he didn't file for bankruptcy and neither did he sell the whole company for cheap. 40% may be given away on the cheap, but even that's not a done deal yet. i've said it before and i'll say it again, if anybody else was running this company i think we would have went bankrupt last week. this guy is pulling thru in the worst economic period decades. many companies that were profitable for years went bankrupt, and we haven't even made a profit and we're still here. this is a real challenge for karmazin, nobody thought the merger would go thru and he did it...

  9. trippingthespeculatingpos is offline
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    02-21-2009, 04:05 PM #39
    i think it is only debt if malone does not get a stake in the company, if he gets a stake in the company he's paying himself back?

  10. trippingthespeculatingpos is offline
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    02-21-2009, 04:09 PM #40
    as well as mel see's the benefits of having a company like liberty media on their team, they are banking it right now off dtv i guarantee it, when i was in philly this summer working in some of the run down neiborhood's i would see miles and miles of dtv dish's. It's so damn cheap compared to regular digital cable, the harder times get the more people will switch so they can have cable but not have to pay an arm and a leg for it. I think we are getting more then just a 500 million dollar loan, we are getting the financial backing of a juggernaut who is actually inreasing there income in one of the worse financial times in recent history.

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