So much for a nice carefree Sunday morning LOL.

[SiriuslyLong]

All you could come up with in this entire financial collapse on Wall Street is Tony Hayward (who has nothing to do with it)? What a goddamn joke.

Many corporate heads these days make way too much money (salaries are way out of wack) and dont give a shit if they bring down the whole system just as long as they make their millions.

And by the way, BP's Tony Hayward left with benefits valued at more than $18 million dollars. Wow that is some REAL punishment.

Politicians CAN be voted out of office (in the House every 2 years). The problem is the political system (dont hear you taking me up on my suggestion to get money out of politics and to reform the system) and the citizens who vote for many of the jerks.Too many of these so called citizens dont do the homework citizenship requires. Many listen to Fox news all the time and dont know the goddamn FACTS on just about anything.

You just dont get it S&L. I dont hate all corporations or corporate heads i just hate what SOME of them have done to our country and what some Politicians have allowed them to get away with. You seem to hate Govt PERIOD and thats just plain stupid. Go read David Brooks column in the other thread please.

P.S. I am starting to think you might need electric shock therapy for your ABSOLUTE fixation on fannie and freddie as the cause of everything. You seem stuck on Fox news talking points and i had thought you were way smarter than that. I am really surprised with what seems to be your lack of ability or interest in taking new information and incorporating it into your world view. Again please read David Brooks column about Govt and Republicans.

If I'm fixated, then you are equally fixated. After all, we are discussing contrary points.

In regards to the David Brooks article, I have read it and agree that the republicans have lost their way. That's why I have abandend the party. His comments about accepting "more government" do bother me.

Government growth and reach has done nothing but increase - every day, every week, every month, every year. Please agree, and don't make me post the Parade Magazine article again.

So I'm assuming you will agree. The growth and reach of our federal government has done nothing but increase with time. Ok, now let's discuss effectiveness. I mean, really, do you want to discuss that - bureaucratic mess after mess after mess? I don't give a $hit if it was Bush's fault or Obama's fault or 100 years of polictical abuse. You see, that's were you and I cannot meet. You want it to be your advesaries fault. To me, it is simply government, and on a one way street of increasing size and reach.

So when I bitch about what Obama is doing, it is in that context. He took the wheels of the bus and is doing the same thing - growing govenments size and reach. It's sad, because I know you are part of the half of Americans who pay taxes, like me. Our tax dollars get less and less useful to real causes. I would think that would piss you off.

Candidly and truthfully, I cannot understand why you are so concerned with CEO pay. I really don't get it. It's like you're bitter and jealous or something. To me, someone achieved. Good for them. I'm stuck selling plastic because I couldn't acheive any higher.

Headline news: CA will need a bailout. LA is broke.

[Havakasha]

S&L i have tried to show you that almost ALL economists believed it was necessary to have a large stimulus package to keep the economy from falling even further.There is a BIG difference between "growing govt" in this instance out of necessity and having it grow in general.

Of course i agree that gov't has grown in terms of money spent. I just think its too simplistic as Mr. Brooks lays out to simply say "smaller govt" is the panacea for everything. It isnt.
I certainly believe that there are govt programs that are essential to our society's well being and that there will always be a need for new ones to solve future problems.

I hope you agree with me on some ways to reform govt? Thats where we can start making some changes.

I AM NOT BITTER OR JEALOUS about CEO's pay. i live VERY WELL thank you.
I greatly respect people who work hard and honestly rise to the top.
i care however that some CEO's salaries have gotten so far out of balance in relation to the rest of peoples pay that is has distorted the whole economic system. You dont deserve a 50 million retirement package if you have
lost the company money and driven the stock price way down. This happens every day of the week. Something is awfully wrong. I can throw lots of studies and statistics at you about this (it seems like i may have to).

Lots of states are in trouble in their budgets as are individual people and individual companies. Everyone has been spending beyond their means.

[SiriuslyLong]

You know, I'm watching Fox News right now. They just had a head to head - Democrat vs. Republican - on taxes. The US is phucked. These two parties are so polarized. That's how the government became so bureaucratic. Concessions are in the form of pork. We need a serious third party.

To your post.

1.) "S&L i have tried to show you that almost ALL economists believed it was necessary to have a large stimulus package to keep the economy from falling even further.There is a BIG difference between "growing govt" in this instance out of necessity and having it grow in general."

There's always a reason - recession, war, Katrina, health care, financial "reform", unfair housing practices....

2.) "Of course i agree that gov't has grown in terms of money spent. I just think its too simplistic as Mr. Brooks lays out to simply say "smaller govt" is the panacea for everything. It isnt.
I certainly believe that there are govt programs that are essential to our society's well being and that there will always be a need for new ones to solve future problems."

What I love is the politicians knee jerk reaction - have a hurricane, create a dept. Have an oil embargo - creat a dept. 10% of Americans don't have health care insurance, so pass a bill effecting 100%.... As noted earlier in the inflammatory video link, once a government job is created.... It only grows from there. I will agree that there are essential parts of our government. No question.

3.) "I hope you agree with me on some ways to reform govt? Thats where we can start making some changes."

Yes I can! But unlike you, I don't have the faith you do. Why would politicians want reform? They're in power. It's counter intuitive.

I'm still not buying. My beliefs are not too far off. Governments around the world are downsizing and practicing common sense. I fully believe that we can downsize AND stimulate. How about that? How about the federal government increase the effectiveness of each tax dollar collected AND reach out into the private sector to stimulate the economy?

You know, there is a little human nature in play here. I used to color match plastics. Every practicioner of color matching I've ever met would say "it's too dark, add more white". I took a different tact - if it was too dark, I'd remove the dark. Every government solution adds. It's a pity.

[Havakasha]

Enjoy your Fox news education. Avoid their talking points at all costs. lol.

Nothing wrong at all with more efficient and less wasteful govt. I like it as long as they are helping to solve our energy, health care, education, environmental,etc. problems. If they are ignoring them or pushing them out to the future then we are in a heap of trouble (which we are in right now because of negligence going back decades).
I think David Brooks does a good job of destroying this simplistic talking point that politicians spout to get elected that simply making govt smaller will allow us to solve all the worlds problem.

[SiriuslyLong]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_homela...urity_bulletin

Here's a real time illustration.

[Havakasha]

You mean govt makes mistakes just like people, corporations etc.? Absolutely shocking. Yawn. lol.

Do you support campaign finance reform by any chance? In other words trying to get money out of politics. It will never happen but certainly the goal i support.

[SiriuslyLong]

So much for buyer beware!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Govt-s...&asset=&ccode=

And who else but Barney Frank weighs in at the end of the article.

[SiriuslyLong]

States cutting government benefits

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/States...&asset=&ccode=

[SiriuslyLong]

Greenspan - less stimulus, more taxes

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/...than-expected/

[Havakasha]

So do you support "less stimulus" and MORE TAXES? LOL.

Watch out that those state cuts dont end up causing more damage than the pensions. Should get very interesting.

DO you support getting money out of politics through campaign finance reform? I have asked you 4 times already. Jeez.