Hopefully Obama can do what he did for IL for the USA

[SiriuslyLong]

Its a criticism of the system but once again its Govt in the lead. You got govt on the BRAIN.
But i do want to get this clear. Are you acknowledging that the free market system with all the players involved, govt, private companies and private citizens all play a part in the problems we have? If we can agree on that then oh boy have we made progress!

Yes, government is in the lead. Who else could have incentivized companies to manufacture here in the US?

OK, it terms of the problems with have; here's my breakdown

Citizens - 15% too many dumbasses that can't figure out what they could afford.

Companies - 10% - I like companies. I buy their products. They employee me and provide me with benefits. I invest in them.

Government - 75% - again, it is my belief that the housing bubble was inflated by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It has to start somewhere. In defense of them though, they are not experts in the fields they provide oversight too. That's a real problem.

Have we made progress?

[Havakasha]

A couple points.

1.) Obama getting things done? I take issue with that. He's getting legislation passed, yes. But what is also happening is that he is creating a larger government that is far more reaching than it was before his arrival. Here's something I'd like to understand better. It was said that 30 MM Americans did have health insurance, correct? So that's 10% of the US population, correct? Why must the legislation effect 100% of the American people? It doesn't make sense. Manage the exception and leave me the F alone.

2.) The derivatives where from bad mortgages. Get it?

Take issue all you want but when you look back you will understand one day. i really do believe that. He is tackling the major issues of the day. Health care, education, financial reform, energy, immigration and a whole host of foreign affairs matters. Anyone that accuses him of not working hard is an idiot. I have asked you repeatedly to name what Bush/Cheney tried to tackle in 8 years and 6 of those with a Republican Congress and you havent been able to name shit. Thats because they kicked the can down the road. Everyone knows (even Republicans) that Bush wasnt half as versed as Obama on the major issues of the day and that Bush was not a particularly curious person. Those are just facts my man.You may not agree with Obama's solutions, and i have no problem with that, but he was elected on many of those solutions and if the citizens decide to throw him out in 4 years so be it. Govt usually grows during times of crisis and we are in one HUGE ****ing crisis in SO MANY Goddamn areas.
And another thing while i am on my rant. This idea that Obama is SO far left is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. Read the mainstream (not the radical) left press and you can see everyday criticisms of Obama for not going far enough with everything. So you guys who say that about Obama are just a tad bit blind and hugely wrong.

S&L i know you cant be that dumb. its impossible to create solutions for health care issues that dont affect all of us. There are too many interconnected pieces. How about we wait. 10 to 20 years and see how the legislation impacted things. My guess is that when we look back we will be glad it was put into place. That is not to say that the legislation is not without fault. There isnt anything that is perfect. We leave in a world of imperfects.

[SiriuslyLong]

I love your blanket wholesale rejection of the financial reform bill without acknowledging the IMMENSE problems that Govt (in my opiinion Republicans who always oppose regulation) opinion allowed to happen and which businessess expoloited to the hilt.
And whats your obsession with the number of pages in a bill? Its something i never heard before until the Republicans started doing it in the last 2 years.
Its an OBVIOUS Republican talking point (if you dont believe me i will be happy to provide you with the research) Its plain silly and utterly meaningless. When you say shit like that i am sorry it just brings down my estimation of your intellect. Stop that crap. Please?

Can you name all the number of pages in all the bills for the past half century?
Did anyone ever make that the issue before now? What is wrong with people? Have they been struck by lightening that just makes them plain DUMB.

I quess i made my point on page numbers huh? lol

Going John on me are you? I put up this metal shed the other week. It was a f'ing chore - my wrist and knee still hurt. I should have known as on the parts list there were 430 sheet metal screws, 250 though hole bolts, 250 through hole nuts, and 200 plastic washers - a simple observation from which one can make a conlcusion (i.e. I should probably get someone to help me).

Apply that thinking to 2300 pages of legislation. Things that come to mind - pork, waste, bureaucracy, larger government.........

[Havakasha]

Yes, government is in the lead. Who else could have incentivized companies to manufacture here in the US?

OK, it terms of the problems with have; here's my breakdown

Citizens - 15% too many dumbasses that can't figure out what they could afford.

Companies - 10% - I like companies. I buy their products. They employee me and provide me with benefits. I invest in them.

Government - 75% - again, it is my belief that the housing bubble was inflated by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It has to start somewhere. In defense of them though, they are not experts in the fields they provide oversight too. That's a real problem.

Have we made progress?

Lol. We have made a TINY bit of progress. . You see, the way govt is set up these day the big influences on legislation and policy are money and lobbyists. Whoever has the most lobbyists and the most money has an inordinate amount of power. The govt is elected by the people and controlled by many special interests so its not Just GOVT as this independent entity which you like to see it as. Its a complex organism.
So i would weight things a little differently.

I am sorry S&L but your analysis of the housing bubble is BEYOND SIMPLISTIC. I provided you with many causes of the crisis and yet you want to blame it all on Fannie and Freddie. You must be listening to too much right wing radio. Its just plain wrong. i quess we will just have to disagree

[Havakasha]

I got to get back to my work. Enjoy the day. Stay cool.

[SiriuslyLong]

"he was elected on many of those solutions and if the citizens decide to throw him out in 4 years so be it."

That's exactly what is going to happen, and in the mean time he'll have bloated the government in a big way.

I know that Paul Klugman is bashing Obama, and I mean bashing. Some of his quotes were downright mean spirited.

[candleman]

Wow, you guys are truly making progress now. I'm proud of you...

Actually, it's really good to keep reading the two of you. You both make many good points.

Here is something to consider.

Mortgage rates are the lowest they've been in decades. Mortgage applications are up 7% this past week.

I think that we are seeing a repeat of the same problem that got us into this mess in the first place.

We now will have folks that will be buying houses with low interest loans. The price of housing will increase because of the increased demand. Then, we'll have a double dip recession, which I think we are having right now by the way. Then housing prices will slump again. And finally we'll have a batch of new forclosures on these loans that people are taking right now at these very low rates.

Personally, I think the FED needs to raise interest rates and get us back to where we need to be. Currently we just keep borrowing from the future to loan money at reduced rates right now. And I don't think we have a plan on how to raise the funds to pay for any of this, since nobody, not even you two want to consider raising taxes in order to pay for these low rate loans and all the other stimulus ideas.

What's your take on this?

[Havakasha]

Going John on me are you? I put up this metal shed the other week. It was a f'ing chore - my wrist and knee still hurt. I should have known as on the parts list there were 430 sheet metal screws, 250 though hole bolts, 250 through hole nuts, and 200 plastic washers - a simple observation from which one can make a conlcusion (i.e. I should probably get someone to help me).

Apply that thinking to 2300 pages of legislation. Things that come to mind - pork, waste, bureaucracy, larger government.........

So you have been counting pages of legislation for the past 10 years?
Somehow i just doubt it.

A new S&L wacky theory to go wth; blue state = economic catastrophe, red state= balanced budget. Now its the # of pages determines quality of the legislation. Oh boy.

[SiriuslyLong]

Wow, you guys are truly making progress now. I'm proud of you...

Actually, it's really good to keep reading the two of you. You both make many good points.

Here is something to consider.

Mortgage rates are the lowest they've been in decades. Mortgage applications are up 7% this past week.

I think that we are seeing a repeat of the same problem that got us into this mess in the first place.

We now will have folks that will be buying houses with low interest loans. The price of housing will increase because of the increased demand. Then, we'll have a double dip recession, which I think we are having right now by the way. Then housing prices will slump again. And finally we'll have a batch of new forclosures on these loans that people are taking right now at these very low rates.

Personally, I think the FED needs to raise interest rates and get us back to where we need to be. Currently we just keep borrowing from the future to loan money at reduced rates right now. And I don't think we have a plan on how to raise the funds to pay for any of this, since nobody, not even you two want to consider raising taxes in order to pay for these low rate loans and all the other stimulus ideas.

What's your take on this?

My take? I was going to refi a while back, but the rate I locked in at tanked so I was out $300. May try it again. But man o man did we get grilled, and we're pretty solid with a very nice credit score. I tend to believe that if you get a mortgage in today's environment, you've probably earned it.

The Bush tax cuts (for the rich) expire 12/31/10 - so taxes will be increasing. It'll be interesting to see if Obama extends them or let's them expire. I'm betting he lets them expire so that the wealth can be distributed. Here's some reading material on the subject.

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...e--646402.html

http://www.mydollarplan.com/bush-tax-cuts-expire/

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/04/pf/t...cuts/index.htm

[SiriuslyLong]

So you have been counting pages of legislation for the past 10 years?
Somehow i just doubt it.

A new S&L wacky theory to go wth; blue state = economic catastrophe, red state= balanced budget. Now its the # of pages determines quality of the legislation. Oh boy.

No, you hear it on the news and read it in the paper as we American ask ourselves "what did we get ourselves into with this guy."

You're the one with the wacky theories and believes in a conspiratorial republican agenda.