Freedom

[homer985]

So now we've come full circle with this thread about Brandon... he has the freedom to write what he wants and is doing just that. He's operating his own site now and has his own followers - he's posted a controversial article, in which he was proven wrong in so many different ways; and Tyler even confirmed the info through a phone call to Sirius -- yet he stands by his article. In fact, now he's claiming that Sirius can "buy back" the preferred shares. I'm sorry if this is rude, but he's clueless.

So now I come full circle to one of my original statements long ago to Tyler, that if you're going to present yourself as a legitimate news organization, you damn well better make sure your facts are right on -- otherwise you destroy your credibility. What Bradon is doing is dangerous, IMHO.

There's a saying in journalism... "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story"... unfortunately, it appears that Brandon is going that route. I hope he's prepared for the ramifications...


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[Newman]

cos: There is in fact an ignore button. Click on the users name. That opens up the user interface. There are three bars, seperated a bit. The first one is Gray and has USER CP on it. That is not the right bar. The next one is BLACK and starts with SEND MESSAGE. This is the right bar. Right next to send message is USER LISTS. Click on that, and 3 options will drop down. The bottom one is Add to Ignore List. Click that and you are done.

Bassmaster: Regardless of right or wrong, this has been dragged out way to far. Tyler is not directly bashing Brandon, and Brandon is not directly bashing Tyler. (And no, I do not consider "Lets see what Tyler writes" a bash.) You are the only one that continues to drag this thread out. Lets put an end to it.

[homer985]

he says looking through the perspective of an opposing view point, the new stock issue can just buy out the preferred shares. ending in the same result, fewer outstanding shares.

The fully diluted sharecount right now is approximately 6.45BB shares; at the current pps, that is a value of $2.9BB. Liberty's "stake" is 40% of that. So their equity stake right now is valued at $1.16BB, on an as converted basis.

So where is Sirius going to come up with $1.16BB to "buy back" the Liberty equity stake? And why would Liberty ever agree to it, knowing full well that the shares may be worth over $1 in the next year? Then it would cost Sirius twice as much to buy them back.

Common sense...



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[relmor2003]

OMG, I feel so retarded. I just reread both these articles again slowly, and the posts again. Tyler and Brandon arent even fighting over the same points. Brandon never said it would LITERALLY remove the ownership, but hes stating the 1 billion in dilution if sold at current market value, would "in effect" change the Liberty deal, by being now able to pay off 500 million in loans at current market value. It makes the Malone loan, a gift instead for 40%, just a larget diluted share of 40%. He now owns 40% of simply a few more shares. Im assuming the only reason were trading at .44 cents right now is because Malone allowed them to escape BK, and were not not trading at BK levels. So in a way, he allowed Sirius's equity to become sellable again. Issue more shares, sell them when the sp is at .80 cents for .60 cents, and you got 600 million dollars. Take that money, and you immediately pay Malone back. Since this dilution of 1 billion shares ended up repaying a loan purchased in Feb. for 3 billion shares, you win. Basically by giving away 3 billion shares you allowed yourself to be able to sell 1 billion shares for the same amount the loan was for, then you made out. So now they are slightly more diluted, but instead of oweing 500 million dollars at 15% now they owe zero dollars at zero percent. They in essance sold 40% of the company at the time(in Feb.) for 4 billion shares, not 3 billion shares. And converted it from a loan, to a gift. You do the math.
As far as I can tell Brandons right, and everyone should start apologizing.

[bassmaster]

cos: There is in fact an ignore button. Click on the users name. That opens up the user interface. There are three bars, seperated a bit. The first one is Gray and has USER CP on it. That is not the right bar. The next one is BLACK and starts with SEND MESSAGE. This is the right bar. Right next to send message is USER LISTS. Click on that, and 3 options will drop down. The bottom one is Add to Ignore List. Click that and you are done.

Bassmaster: Regardless of right or wrong, this has been dragged out way to far. Tyler is not directly bashing Brandon, and Brandon is not directly bashing Tyler. (And no, I do not consider "Lets see what Tyler writes" a bash.) You are the only one that continues to drag this thread out. Lets put an end to it.

i thought i was ending it yesterday,then the new articles came out. i will stop, coming from the true authority of this thread..lol....gn ..gl

p.s. newman,,,how about just closing this thread and it'll die out ?

[TSavery]

What was stated:

"If Sirius XM was to issue only an additional 1 billion shares of stock in order to reverse the Liberty deal, it would have the net effect of removing the 2,586,976,762 shares that Liberty's preferred stock represents. The total number of fully diluted outstanding shares would thus be REDUCED by more than 1.5 billion shares, which of course benefits Sirius XM shareholders."

1. You can not reverse the Liberty deal. All you can do is pay off the loan early. This means that Liberty STILL Owns 12.5 million shares of preferred.

2. Sirius XM can only dilute to a certain point because of the Liberty deal.

3. The company can buy back the shares, but their value has already increased substantially from the point in time at which they were granted to Liberty. This also assumes that Liberty would want to sell the shares. Liberty has every right to simply say "no thanks". There is no mechanism to force them to sell.

The bottom line is that the shares are now out there, and will continue to be out there. Issuing more shares will not change that fact.

I was not trying to "attack" anyone personally, and did not put any names into the article. I wrote it in such a way as to give the clarity that Sirius Buzz readers were seeking. I received several e-mails in regard to the subject asking whether or not the Liberty shares could be revesed. I provided the answer, and did so in such a way that was intended to simply give the information that people were seeking. Some took it to be an attack on another site. It simply was not the case, but appears to have turned into an all out debate. I am perfectly comfoirtable in stating that the Liberty shares are out there, and will contiunue to be no matter what sirius XM does.

The importance here is that people are considering there positions on proxy mnaterials for the annual meeting. If they feel that adding to the share count may help erase the Liberty shares, then they are making a decision on information that simply is not accurate. That being said, I fully expect the share authorization to pass anyway (thus the issue may be moot), but still, people need to be aware of why they feel the way they do about an issue, and need to feel comfoirtable that the information they have is accurate.

This is not a he said, she said debate. I have taken exception to many articles in the past. This has included various analysts, as well as other perspective. Disagreement can be done in a respectful way. As always, if I disagree with an opinion of someone else, I simply give my own opinion on the matter. If I feel someone thinks that something is a fact, yet everything else points otherwise, I will point that out as well.

People come to sites and read analyst reports for information, opinion, and facts. I feel that they should read as much as they can on a subject, and take a few steps to verify opinions, facts, etc. Only by doing this can someone be as fully informed as possible.

[relmor2003]

What was stated:

"If Sirius XM was to issue only an additional 1 billion shares of stock in order to reverse the Liberty deal, it would have the net effect of removing the 2,586,976,762 shares that Liberty's preferred stock represents. The total number of fully diluted outstanding shares would thus be REDUCED by more than 1.5 billion shares, which of course benefits Sirius XM shareholders."

1. You can not reverse the Liberty deal. All you can do is pay off the loan early. This means that Liberty STILL Owns 12.5 million shares of preferred.

2. Sirius XM can only dilute to a certain point because of the Liberty deal.

3. The company can buy back the shares, but their value has already increased substantially from the point in time at which they were granted to Liberty. This also assumes that Liberty would want to sell the shares. Liberty has every right to simply say "no thanks". There is no mechanism to force them to sell.

The bottom line is that the shares are now out there, and will continue to be out there. Issuing more shares will not change that fact.

I was not trying to "attack" anyone personally, and did not put any names into the article. I wrote it in such a way as to give the clarity that Sirius Buzz readers were seeking. I received several e-mails in regard to the subject asking whether or not the Liberty shares could be revesed. I provided the answer, and did so in such a way that was intended to simply give the information that people were seeking. Some took it to be an attack on another site. It simply was not the case, but appears to have turned into an all out debate. I am perfectly comfoirtable in stating that the Liberty shares are out there, and will contiunue to be no matter what sirius XM does.

The importance here is that people are considering there positions on proxy mnaterials for the annual meeting. If they feel that adding to the share count may help erase the Liberty shares, then they are making a decision on information that simply is not accurate. That being said, I fully expect the share authorization to pass anyway (thus the issue may be moot), but still, people need to be aware of why they feel the way they do about an issue, and need to feel comfoirtable that the information they have is accurate.

This is not a he said, she said debate. I have taken exception to many articles in the past. This has included various analysts, as well as other perspective. Disagreement can be done in a respectful way. As always, if I disagree with an opinion of someone else, I simply give my own opinion on the matter. If I feel someone thinks that something is a fact, yet everything else points otherwise, I will point that out as well.

People come to sites and read analyst reports for information, opinion, and facts. I feel that they should read as much as they can on a subject, and take a few steps to verify opinions, facts, etc. Only by doing this can someone be as fully informed as possible.

Tyler, Forget for a second about what Brandon meant. Your facts are facts, true. I agree with your facts. When I said you bitch slapped Brandon I was kidding, as of course you were just debating issues. I think other people might think its a personal battle but Im just trying to get this down so I can move on in my thinking is all.
Read my post above, im curious if this wasnt his basic point, throw the math out. Math is math, cant argue math. Is my basic point in my post, perhaps ,that he was alluding to something that was possible in the future is all, and tried to corrolate its effect back to the Liberty deal to compare and contrast its effectiveness.

[TSavery]

I do not think this is what Brandon meant. There is no way to erase shares that are out there. Sirius XM can not even do a stock buyback until such time that they are profitable. In addition, the value of the preferred is not fixed. How can one put more equity on the marjet to buy other equity. It will wash.

[relmor2003]

I do not think this is what Brandon meant. There is no way to erase shares that are out there. Sirius XM can not even do a stock buyback until such time that they are profitable. In addition, the value of the preferred is not fixed. How can one put more equity on the marjet to buy other equity. It will wash.

Yes, but read the article again , I think he said "in effect". He was basically saying Malone caused the stock price to rebound, allowing a higher sell price for future dilution. Therefore it takes much fewer shares now then then to buy debt. I think he knows those shares are here to stay. Unless in a post response he said differently, but in that article he said "in effect", not literally. Similar thinking to what I was talking about in my post above, just worded differently, but same concept. Yes yes, those shares are 100 percent Libertys period, no one is debating that I hope. I HOPE.

[cos1000]

I do not think this is what Brandon meant. There is no way to erase shares that are out there. Sirius XM can not even do a stock buyback until such time that they are profitable. In addition, the value of the preferred is not fixed. How can one put more equity on the marjet to buy other equity. It will wash.

Well..... In fact there is a way to "Erase" shares that are already out there.... just no way to erase the Liberty shares.

The "Lent Shares" on the Ugly Deal are "Out There" and can be recalled upon the repayment of All of the the XM 7%, Convertible Notes, due in 2014. There is only a 1% penalty I think because I believe they have to be paid at 101% if paid early. If any "Discount" is available in paying off Debt with these "added 1B shares in dilution" as asked for in the proxy. It would be if these additional shares are used to pay off these Notes, and in fact, they would get a 25% discount in removing these shares from the market.

They would also remove what I believe is the major SI or "Hedged" interest in the Equity at this time. My suggestion would be that they R/S say 1 / 25 around the same time. That means they could use the addition 1B shares, after split 40B, worth lets say at .50(for simple math) / sh, a value of $500M, to pay off the $553M (somewhat less), and they could then "erase" the 263M shares, (10.5M after a split) from the Market place.

So in essence they would recieve a 25% Equity Discount by reversing the dilution created at the time of the Merger and the "Ugly Deal".

Isn't that what got the stock price to where it is in the first place??



Oh, and Thanks Newman for the instructions and I will be using it....