Freedom

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Originally Posted by john

I left you a comment over at SA on Tylers article. I went there first. I am sorry but when you tried to say Brandon was say that he did not think the shares could be returned that it was a fact that they are now able to sell the shares for far more then before I had to rebuff that. It was clear from my post to him and his response that he thought SIRIXM could get the shares back. Now that people are seeing that fact (and that Brandon was saying is truely false) they are all tring to say; HO no I didn't think that was what he was saying or I was joking. Complete bullshit.


Also go look at the PPS in Dec.,...................................Now that you have done that. Why did they not just sell the shares that they had before the PPS was alot higher back then also. The Malone deal brought it BACK up, that is true but it was up before when they had the extra shares to sell.

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Funny John. You answered your own question. Yes, go back and look at the chart. No one buys stocks on the way down, obviously. Did you hear a clamoring from bondholders begging for shares that have lost 90% of their value. No, you wont. But you might find you can actually sell them now when sentiment is much different for over .50 cents, something only the Liberty deal enables us to be able to do. If they could have sold them then, they would have. Obviously the bondholders were right. If they were eager beavers for cheap shares, those 300 million plus volume days would have been a good time to load up. So my point remains valid. Im not saying right today they can get .50 cents a share. Im saying if this clear .63 cents and holds for a bit, WHY NOT?
John, you hold a bond of Sirius in Dec. They say, hey you want .40 cents a share for those? Ya right, youd spit on them. Its what they did Im sure.

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

Funny John. You answered your own question. Yes, go back and look at the chart. No one buys stocks on the way down, obviously. Did you hear a clamoring from bondholders begging for shares that have lost 90% of their value. No, you wont. But you might find you can actually sell them now when sentiment is much different for over .50 cents, something only the Liberty deal enables us to be able to do. If they could have sold them then, they would have. Obviously the bondholders were right. If they were eager beavers for cheap shares, those 300 million plus volume days would have been a good time to load up. So my point remains valid. Im not saying right today they can get .50 cents a share. Im saying if this clear .63 cents and holds for a bit, WHY NOT?
John, you hold a bond of Sirius in Dec. They say, hey you want .40 cents a share for those? Ya right, youd spit on them. Its what they did Im sure.

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Actually Relmor the Feb and Dec 09 bond holders were going to take shares if you remember,as then Ergen came in and offered .35 on the dollar,remember Mel said he got focked by Ergen..that was in Dec of 08..Which forced the bk scare AND LED US TO LIBERTY...

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Originally Posted by homer985

Yep, pretty much. But in all fairness, I have felt this all along. They have several debt issues maturing in the next 12-18 months that I believe will continue to be exchanged for shares. In fact, I read comments from Greg Maffei within the last week where he pretty much came right out and said this -- that they're looking at exchanging more Sirius debt.

But that is where the problem is -- and likely why they're asking for another authorization increase. Because issuing 500MM shares of common shares in exchange for debt, is not just 500MM shares; that is because of the Liberty 40% exchange which is non-dilutive to themselves. 500MM common added, is actuall 833MM added when accounting for Liberty's stake on a fully diluted basis. For example, the outstanding sharecount right now is approximately 3.88BB; fully diluted it is about 6.46BB. So if Sirius issues 500MM new shares in exchange for debt, it will take the common outstanding to 4.38BB; but the fully dilluted would jump up to 7.3BB. Further example, issuing 1BB new shares in exchange for debt would take the common outstanding to 4.88BB; but fully diluted it is about 8.13BB.

So in hindsight, I even more believe that this is what is going on... they're looking to exchange more debt for equity -- and issuing as much as 1BB shares for debt, would take them over their current 8BB authorization cap.



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See this is why i love Homer,my thoughts and reasons exactly why the extra billion is needed,they obviously have deals lined up and need extra because of
every share issued carries a 40%fee,so to speak,and i can't type so Homer does it for me,,Thanks again Homer and little Homer(John):thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

Funny John. You answered your own question. Yes, go back and look at the chart. No one buys stocks on the way down, obviously. Did you hear a clamoring from bondholders begging for shares that have lost 90% of their value. No, you wont. But you might find you can actually sell them now when sentiment is much different for over .50 cents, something only the Liberty deal enables us to be able to do. If they could have sold them then, they would have. Obviously the bondholders were right. If they were eager beavers for cheap shares, those 300 million plus volume days would have been a good time to load up. So my point remains valid. Im not saying right today they can get .50 cents a share. Im saying if this clear .63 cents and holds for a bit, WHY NOT?
John, you hold a bond of Sirius in Dec. They say, hey you want .40 cents a share for those? Ya right, youd spit on them. Its what they did Im sure.

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relmor, Thats easy and I explain this before (in the thread "Just an opinion") and it was confirmed by Mel in an interview. It was Charles Ergen that frick up the works. Mel had said in that interview that he was none to happy that just as he was getting the converts to extend he finds out Ergen was buying the same bonds he was getting to extend. My point here is while they needed the Liberty deal they needed Ergen to keep his hands to himself more. The reason behind that is they would not have needed the Liberty deal if Charles Ergen did not get involved in the first place.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

Actually Relmor the Feb and Dec 09 bond holders were going to take shares if you remember,as then Ergen came in and offered .35 on the dollar,remember Mel said he got focked by Ergen..that was in Dec of 08..Which forced the bk scare AND LED US TO LIBERTY...

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That is amazing I just said the same thing I would have had mine up first, if I did not have a kid to deal with first.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

See this is why i love Homer,my thoughts and reasons exactly why the extra billion is needed,they obviously have deals lined up and need extra because of
every share issued carries a 40%fee,so to speak,and i can't type so Homer does it for me,,Thanks again Homer and little Homer(John):thumbsup:

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Ho and I just read this. For the very last part of that, Your a bastard.



P.S. I have the same problem typing, ask cos1000, he has beat me to the punch many times because of my affliction.

ok so when its all said and done, assuming liberty converts ( safe to say @ some point in time they will). we will have 8.13bb shares outstanding also assuming they use the full 1bb to pay off debt (we wont know how much untill it's paid, and most likely wont be in 1 shot)...now given this scenario which seems the most likely, IS THIS TRULY A BAD MOVE? and can you geniuses figure out what the equity would be valued @ ,given current market conditions (which is a worst case scenario) assuming 600-750m in debt is removed?

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Originally Posted by bassmaster

ok so when its all said and done, assuming liberty converts ( safe to say @ some point in time they will). we will have 8.13bb shares outstanding also assuming they use the full 1bb to pay off debt (we wont know how much untill it's paid, and most likely wont be in 1 shot)...now given this scenario which seems the most likely, IS THIS TRULY A BAD MOVE? and can you geniuses figure out what the equity would be valued @ ,given current market conditions (which is a worst case scenario) assuming 600-750m in debt is removed?

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In all sincerity, why assume that Liberty would convert? All of the discussion is to show that by maintaining their 40% ownership, represented by the 12.5K Preferred Shares, that their Common share conversion is protected from dilution so long as they maintain their Preferred share, 40% position.... My God what a great position to be in..... Also this discussion of the Proxy and the 1B being asked for is a joke.... Its already a done deal....

Funny.... now that the mandatory waiting period under the HSR Act has ended, Liberty wasted no time converting their 11.5MM shares of B-2 Preferred into B-1 Preferred. Now Liberty is sitting on the full 40% and all those seats on the BOD.

Doesn't look like a company about to "sell" the shares back to Sirius. I wonder how Brandon is feeling today?



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Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

Actually Relmor the Feb and Dec 09 bond holders were going to take shares if you remember,as then Ergen came in and offered .35 on the dollar,remember Mel said he got focked by Ergen..that was in Dec of 08..Which forced the bk scare AND LED US TO LIBERTY...

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Your making a huge assumption saying they were going to take shares. Obviously they preferred cold hard cash at the time.
Then why sell to Ergen if they felt they could make out on cheap shares. Cos, No one forced them to sell their bonds to Ergen. Whether Ergen created the low SP atmosphere for this purpose is not known, or relevant, lets just stick to the chart, as the chart was his point. Obviously looking at the chart at the time, and the market sentiment at the time, you take the cash. Sorry cos1000, my point still remains valid. I agree with what you said though, but we have no clue how much they could have sold them for. I agree that once Ergen controlled the bonds, he was not taking equity. Thats the "theory" anyway. Not much. Thats for sure. I think I remember the last swap was for around .13 cents a share. They can get 4 times that now.
Having such a huge backer, and clearing another CC with good results helped generate this situation of even debating an equity swap again, is my point. We werent thinking anything but can we get a loan 2 months ago. We were all praying that we could dilute or way out of this mess when it was .12 cents a share. .20 cents. 30 cents even. Now..... We got mad at another billion added(good sign actually, board seems to be convinced they will need them, meaning they feel value has returned to the company).

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Originally Posted by homer985

Funny.... now that the mandatory waiting period under the HSR Act has ended, Liberty wasted no time converting their 11.5MM shares of B-2 Preferred into B-1 Preferred. Now Liberty is sitting on the full 40% and all those seats on the BOD.

Doesn't look like a company about to "sell" the shares back to Sirius. I wonder how Brandon is feeling today?

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And they have voting rights at the Shareholder meeting too which is why I said all proxy issues are a done deal.... This to me is about as close to going private as one can get without any of the hassle.... The Liberty 40% position gives them complete control without any FCC, DOJ, or even common shareholder objection that they cannot easily overcome. They are truly in a most envious position.... and they get a good paycheck for it too on their loans... Ah to have cash when no one else does.....

From what I can read from what he says, he's already forgotten what he wrote...... LOL

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

Then why sell to Ergen if they felt they could make out on cheap shares. Cos, No one forced them to sell their bonds to Ergen. Whether Ergen created the low SP atmosphere for this purpose is not known, or relevant, lets just stick to the chart, as the chart was his point. Obviously looking at the chart at the time, and the market sentiment at the time, you take the cash. Sorry cos1000, my point still remains valid.

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relmor my friend, your post must be to someone else (for the second time today) and not me..... I haven't got a clue about what your talking about.... but, glad your thinking about me.....:confused::):confused:

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Originally Posted by cos1000

From what I can read from what he says, he's already forgotten what he wrote...... LOL

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That is the problem with Brandon. That is what enables him to right the next dumb ass article, so fast after the last one. He forgets so fast that he does not learn his lesson and just jumps before he looks (does his FULL research). It does not help that over at Satwaves it looks like he has mindless followers telling him "thats ok Brandon go ahead and do it again". I hate to say it but I am glad he is gone. I also was thinking about signing up over there also but I now find it would most likely be a waste of time. There are not enough common sense people over there to keep that moron in check.

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Originally Posted by cos1000

relmor my friend, your post must be to someone else (for the second time today) and not me..... I haven't got a clue about what your talking about.... but, glad your thinking about me.....:confused::):confused:

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I believe he is thinking about you to much. I would think about a restraining order.

John, that's too funny but,.... I have contacted my lawyer......

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by cos1000

In all sincerity, why assume that Liberty would convert? All of the discussion is to show that by maintaining their 40% ownership, represented by the 12.5K Preferred Shares, that their Common share conversion is protected from dilution so long as they maintain their Preferred share, 40% position.... My God what a great position to be in..... Also this discussion of the Proxy and the 1B being asked for is a joke.... Its already a done deal....

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ya, i agree they are protected from being dilluted. i came to the conclusion(not a hard one to figure out) the issuance will be done before any conversion. but regardless, whether they convert or not, the stock is dilluted with the liberty deal. i'm just trying to spark up a general discussion as to what you guys think would be a fair value of the PPS after using the new (1bb) shares to pay down some debt, and whether dilluting further is a good idea thats all. put your thinking caps on..ty..gl

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Originally Posted by cos1000

relmor my friend, your post must be to someone else (for the second time today) and not me..... I haven't got a clue about what your talking about.... but, glad your thinking about me.....:confused::):confused:

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I know, im sorry. It was to Irish not you.

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Originally Posted by bassmaster

ya, i agree they are protected from being dilluted. i came to the conclusion(not a hard one to figure out) the issuance will be done before any conversion. but regardless, whether they convert or not, the stock is dilluted with the liberty deal. i'm just trying to spark up a general discussion as to what you guys think would be a fair value of the PPS after using the new (1bb) shares to pay down some debt, and whether dilluting further is a good idea thats all. put your thinking caps on..ty..gl

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They wont speculate, because they dont want to be wrong. I on the other hand dont mind one bit. Ill take a stab. If I were Sirius, and I knew I could pull of a decent Q1, then I would look to sell once .63 cents is held and stable. I would JUMP at the chance to take a huge amount of debt off the table at .50 cents a share. Of course thats my low ball figure, I bet they can get better, around .60-.65 cents a share would be great. As someone said earlier it wont be done in one lot, but 2, that sounds reasonable. They will pay off upcoming debt with the money. The stock will dilute 15% and the discount price will be under that at the current market close of that day. So if it closes around .80 cents, then I would issue the stock at that point, assuming their are takers. I would then crawl that sp back up to .80 cents again, and sell the other shares. HEHEHE....
THen I would R/S after a few months pass. Around 6 months later I would dilute again. Im thinking like Mel now, remember...
:) IMVHO.

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

I know, im sorry. It was to Irish not you.

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What did i do,now i have to get lawyer and restraining order too...:p

But Relmor,it is not a big assumption ,they asked for 4 billion shares at the dec.emergency meeting,which means discussions were going on at least in Sept or Oct,possible don't you think..what saying is probably a combo of cash ,shares and extension of debt was going on..they had already done 113 mil of feb debt in jan..

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Originally Posted by john

That is the problem with Brandon. That is what enables him to right the next dumb ass article, so fast after the last one. He forgets so fast that he does not learn his lesson and just jumps before he looks (does his FULL research). It does not help that over at Satwaves it looks like he has mindless followers telling him "thats ok Brandon go ahead and do it again". I hate to say it but I am glad he is gone. I also was thinking about signing up over there also but I now find it would most likely be a waste of time. There are not enough common sense people over there to keep that moron in check.

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That is his modus operandi(sic),which is ok if you are a poster,but not a blogger or writer or whatever they are calling themselves today..with me it's not a personal attack on him,just he and others complain about every negative bogus conspiracy laden story passed around and then they want to find where it came from and attack them..Well we know where these bogus positive slanting or negative bk scare stories are coming from..it is dangerous,
disengenuous and plain wrong,and i'll battle it till it is fixed..