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  1. john is offline
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    09-03-2010, 02:12 PM #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Conclusion
    Under Reagan, the tax cuts led to stagnant government revenue from individual taxpayers. It wasn't until he started raising taxes the government revenue started to increase. However, Reagan spent like a "tax and spend" liberal, increasing the debt/GDP ratio in each year of his presidency from 33% to 51%.


    Under Bush II, the tax cuts led to a 6.7% decline in revenue for the first 4 years of his presidency. Because his spending increases far outpaced the decrease in government revenue, the total national debt outstanding increased 41%.


    To compare, Clinton increased taxes on the upper-income taxpayers, which led to a 97% increase in government revenue. He grew the economy at a health pace. He decreased the debt/GDP ratio in each year starting in 1995 of his presidency.


    The two attempts to prove "tax cuts pay for themselves" have failed. It is clear that if the laffer curve exists, the US tax rates are clearly to the left of the curve's apex indicating a tax cut will in fact decrease revenue.


    As to your previous post what a bunch of crap. Why do I say that, because as I already said and brought up to you FIRST (in post # 98 FIRST paragraph, "Here is another interesting point that will be surprising to you but NOT TO ME. Reagan also rasied taxes. The difference is Reagan had and followed Arthur Laffer.") that Reagan actually raised taxes. I told you then that it was not INCOME TAX that was rasied they were totally different and would have different effects. You really want to stick to that arguement or should we say Obama lied AGIAN and raised taxes on people making under 12,000 dollars a year or do you think they dont smoke. Or why isn't the MSM reporting Obama lied AGIAN and raised taxes on people making less then 12,000 dollars a year.


    So you get it, one effects everyone equally and the other effects specific groups of people. I told you THEN and I will tell you again (you dumb twit) that income taxes and other taxes are TOTALLY different. Those other taxes are not and never where part of the "laffer curve". Art Laffer SPECIFICALLY targets INCOME TAXES. That is why in the Historical evidence that he uses he mainly targets INCOME TAXES.

    Dumbass a clear example is the luxury tax. Need I remind you how terribly that worked out and who that ended up hurting in the end. Yea I know, after they repealed that one, they said opps, OPPS, my bad.

    Havasucker you make as much sense as George Soros saying, "Yea I think I should pay more in taxes". Then doing everything possible to make sure he pays as LITTLE as possible.

    You make as much sense as Oprah saying, "Yes I believe the rich should have to pay more in taxes then we are now." Then PAYS someone, who has as one of her jobs, to keep track of how many days she spends in her CA. mansion, FOR THE SPECIFIC REASON, SO SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY CA. TAX RATES.

    Do I need to go on???? should I talk about Sen. Kerry and HIS YACHT or maybe congressman Rangle.



    Dumbass, how much do you think RICH LIBERIALS spend to keep from paying that much in income tax that they dont think they are paying enough of?????

  2. Havakasha is offline
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    09-03-2010, 11:12 PM #132
    Hey Johnny,
    Here is a demonstration of what a joke your HERO Laffer is.

    Alternet article re John Williams 5/10 (Williams is an economist)

    One of this era's defining moments occurred on August 28, 2006, when stock broker and UC Berkeley alumnus Peter Schiff appeared on CNBC and proclaimed that by 2008, our addiction to debt-financed consumption and the collapse of the housing bubble would plunge the country into one of the deepest recessions it had ever seen. Squaring off against Schiff was none other than Art Laffer, former economic advisor to Ronald Reagan and the godfather of supply-side economics. "The United States economy has never been in better shape," assured Laffer, who even went so far as to bet Schiff a penny that the economy wouldn't crash. "I'll bet you a lot more than a penny," Schiff retorted.

    GAME. SET. MATCH. You are clearly in over your head John. LMFAO.

  3. john is offline
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    09-07-2010, 02:41 PM #133
    That is not even close to as stupid as Barney Frank saying this:

    "Barney Frank Says Fannie And Freddie's Lending Standards Are Too High"

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/barne...#ixzz0yruR7A52

    And he said that after the melt down yes he JUST said that.


    Or how about this:

    "Video: Democrats insist “nothing wrong” at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac in 2004"

    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/2...e-mac-in-2004/

    In it, is the video proof of republican after republican telling democrats to REGULATE Fanny and Freddy and then democrat after democrat saying nothing is wrong with Fanny and Freddy and that they are doing a great job.

    So should any of those democrats be relected????



    That is game, set, and match, dumbass.


    Here is just some extra icing on the cake. Dont choke on it.

    "You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
    You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
    You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."




    Abraham Lincoln

  4. Havakasha is offline
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    09-07-2010, 04:22 PM #134
    Laffer is one of your economic heroes John and yet you offer absolutely NO defense for how wrong he was when it came to understanding the state of our economy. You base your economic "common sense" and "logic" () on that man John. That means your opinions on economics are worth nothing. Be a man. Own up.

    Now who is the real dumbass.
    Game. Set. Match. As i was saying.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 09-08-2010 at 01:02 AM.

  5. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    09-08-2010, 08:57 AM #135
    Hey John, Laugher aside; love your "talking point" video on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Havakasha doesn't understand that 1 comes before 2 and 2 before 3.... He just believes 10 is the problem without knowing how it got there. I don't think I need to put that into context.

  6. Havakasha is offline
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    09-08-2010, 10:00 AM #136
    Hey S&L are your really back on that fannie and freddie kick? i thought you had already understood that as William Poole said, the private market was largely responsible for the mess we are in. I quess you couldnt help going back to your original talking point huh?

    Why so quiet on Laffer? Hmmm. Chicken? According to John "this part of Siriuslylongs post exactly spells out the "laffer curve". This thread had a discussion all about Laffer and economics and never about Fannie and Freddie. Thanks for "hijacking the thread" Laffer came way before Fannie like 1 comes before 2? lol

    Now where were we?
    Last edited by Havakasha; 09-08-2010 at 10:46 AM.

  7. candleman is offline
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    09-08-2010, 10:10 AM #137

    Let's talk about SIRI for a change.

    We're trading at 1.03 as I write this.

    It's getting about time for another profitable flip. I hope some of you took advantage of getting a few thousand shares last week when we were at 96 cents. It's time to flip those as soon as we hit 1.05. Leave your money in the account and rebuy at 96 cents again in a couple of weeks.

    Wash, rinse, repeat. There is plenty of money to be made trading SIRI while it's stuck in this range. And in my opinion we'll stay in this trading range for awhile longer.

  8. Havakasha is offline
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    09-08-2010, 10:16 AM #138
    [QUOTE=Havakasha;64393]And Just like i predicted John will never be nailed down. LOL.
    Two simple questions to answer and he cant put them down right here for all to see. Typical.
    If there is ANYONE out there who can give me John's SPECIFIC answers to these questions
    please do post them. Thanks.

    1. If the Bush tax cuts are rescinded for the top 2% then tell me what going
    over the "cliff" for the market means and tell us for how long the market will stay over the cliff?

    1. a spot for john's answer.


    2. When (and if) they raise the capital gains tax rate (5% i believe) tell us about the market "carnage" you predict and for how long it will last?

    2. a spot for John's answer.


    Its obvious why you dont answer those 2 questions John. Whenever you sense the possiblity you could be proved wrong you duck and cover.

    P.S. I almost died laughing when John said Conservatives have a lock on common sense and logic.
    Thats why there is a new poll out that says a majority of Republicans say Obama wants Global Islamic law. You cannot make this stuff up. Insanity.

    P.S. September is historically the worst month for the stock market. Given the reports about the
    economy slowing over the past several months is it any wonder that John made his predictions about the market going down with September in the mix? Dont let someone as obvious as him fool
    you.


    John i am still waiting for your answers. Just put them down coward.
    Polocies is actually spelled policies. lol.

  9. Havakasha is offline
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    09-08-2010, 10:30 AM #139
    "squaring of aginst Schiff was none other than Art Laffer, former economic advisor to Ronald Reagan and the GODFATHER OF SUPPLY-ECONOMICS. The United States economy 'HAS NEVER BEEN IN BETTER SHAPE', ASSURED LAFFER,WHO EVEN WENT SO FAR AS TO BET SCHIFF A PENNY THAT THE ECONOMY WOULDNT CRASH. 'I'll bet you a lot more than a penny,' Schiff retorted.

    Schiff said this ('our addiction to debt-financed consumption and the collapse of the housing bubble would plunge the country into one of the deepest recessions it had ever seen') in August, 2006 after 6 years of total Republican control of all branches of the govt (House, Senate, Presidency). So Johns attempt, in the most convoluted way, to blame the 2nd worst recession on record (together with financial crisis) on Dems is shown to be a total and absolute canard.

    And this is the guy (Laffer) who taught John everything he knows about economics. LOL.

    Thanks Candleman for that sirius xm stock thread update.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 09-08-2010 at 10:37 AM.

  10. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    09-08-2010, 10:32 AM #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Hey S&L are your really back on that fannie and freddie kick? i thought you had already understood that as William Poole said, the private market was largely responsible for the mess we are in. I quess you couldnt help going back to your original talking point huh?

    Why so quiet on Laffer? Hmmm. Chicken? This thread had a discussion all about Laffer and economics and never about Fannie and Freddie. Thanks for "hijacking the thread"
    You mean 1 comes before 2? Damn why didnt you just say that before? Everything is so clear now.
    Back? You're joking right? You can cling on to William Poole's opinion all you want. The facts speaks for themselves. Talking points? LMFAO. Those democrats in the video should be arrested. But no, they are the powerful ones, and they get re-elected because of political geography. This is true corruption.

    Why so quiet on Laffer? Don't know him from Adam to be candid (other than my man Schiff made an ass out of him in retrospect.)

    You know, it is so ironic that you debunk Laffer with Shiff, yet Schiff is so fundementally different from you on economic beliefs. Switching sides, or just being opportunistic? Check this out.

    http://www.europac.net/news/peter_sc...g_market_crash

    As far as the hijacking, John seemed to have brought up Fannie and Freddie with a very "damning" link showing that the democrats literally protected an accident waiting to happen. It's a hell of a talking point, and interestingly, it's consistent with what I have been trying to point out to you. A point which no matter how consistent and poingnant, you will not recognize.

    Anyway......

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