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  1. Siriusowner is offline
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    09-01-2009, 03:40 PM #31
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    I have no problem with US companies taking positions in India and China and making goods there to sell to these emerging nations. In fact I endorse it. Several of my customers manufacture in China for the Chinese market. I'm glad to report that many of those who manufactured in China for the US market have had second thoughts, and brought production back to the US. It ain't easy to manage things 3000 miles away, and like I said previously, Chinese like Chinese suppliers, even if their paint is full of lead and their drywall full of hydrogen sulfide producing substances.

    Here's a case study in manufacturing, or the lack thereof. There is a lot of hype regarding hybrid vehicles. Well, we have so little manufacturing infrastructure, experience and know how, that it is nearly impossible for us to compete in the production of the batteries used in these vehicle. Enter a Korean firm. Tell me how beneficial that is to the US that we have to rely on other nations manufacturing technology and experience? This is just one case study. This is not a case of "out manufacturing", this is exactly what you guys are saying -- that we need to look forward, be innovative and show leadership.

    Rely on other nations manufacturing technology ? That is not necessarly what I meant. We must manufacture in other nations but not necessarly using their mfg. processes, quality assurances and/or technology. That is where we come in, those are out jobs, teaching them how to, supervising them, implementing, managing,... LEADING.

    PS: If something comes in the US with lead, asbestos or with bad quality... I do not blame the Chinese or Hindus, I blame us. Why ? because we are supposed to communicate (or at least supervise their work more efficiently) to them what we need, how we need it, when we need it, etc... If that is happening then we are not doing our jobs... BTW: We must lead those companies that produce domestically for them also. In other words, if a Chinese, Hindi, Ecuatorian, Argentinan, is willing to come here to work as a Janitor, why can't we go work there as the engineer, the accountant or drafter ? Better yet, why don't we buy those companies first, learn more about their culture and create white collar jobs for US people overseas ? That should also lift their socioeconomical level also.... We should be a nation that exports... exports people, knowledge, ideas, etc .... Not pumps, cars, machinery, etc...

    Of course, I always have these utopian ideas but anyway, most of the people does not think the way I do...
    Last edited by Siriusowner; 09-01-2009 at 04:08 PM.

  2. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    09-01-2009, 03:53 PM #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Siriusowner View Post
    You want to know what differentiates America from the rest of the world ?... Its precisely that, its people !

    If we continue this discussion we will never end and keep going in circles. You have your point of view and I have mine. You think we should be workers, I think we should be leaders ... You look back, I look forward, You think there's a place for the mfg. working class in the US, I think that place is China and India... Granted, there will always be blue collar workers, otherwise who would clean, cook, mow lawns, cut hair, harvest, etc... (but even those are services)... As far as mfg., I do not think there's a place for that in the US anymore... We should be researching, developing, selling, marketing, managing, innovating and exporting our great inventions and ideas to the world, etc ... The masses ? We'll they must evolve too or die (be crushed ?).

    I've seen those empty buildings, I lived in CT in one of the towns where Steven Spielberg filmed parts of "War of the Worlds" with Tom Cruise. If you watch the movie, you'll see towards the end of the movie an old building being destroyed by one of the invaders, an abandoned quarry process building, the building exists in Naugatuck, CT and like that building there are thousands accross just CT... where do you think the people or their descendants of the people that work there are working today ? Even ITT, my employer in CT, had an assembly facility that they closed, the people that worked there ? retired most of them but some of their kids (my co-workers) were working with me as drafters, engineers, executive assistants, etc... not as a mfg. worker.... and they were better off than their parents !!!

    Anyway, we must look for ways to evolve, if we do not evolve then we truly will be crushed by the China's and India's... we must be one step ahead of them and we must not look to them as our equals, we are far superior, socially, economically and technologically. They must look up to us for leadership, not viceversa.
    I think we should be workers? Where did I say that? Tell me? You're not even making an attempt at understanding my point.

    Yes, I do look back; more often than not to find out what went wrong. It's called learning. Generally, that's how one avoids making the same mistake twice.

  3. Siriusowner is offline
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    09-02-2009, 10:27 AM #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    I think we should be workers? Where did I say that? Tell me? You're not even making an attempt at understanding my point.

    Yes, I do look back; more often than not to find out what went wrong. It's called learning. Generally, that's how one avoids making the same mistake twice.


    Manufacturing & assembling jobs are workers jobs, most of them, blue collar.

    I do not say you should not look back, I agree, we learn from history but you suggested that putting in place strategies from the past is the way to go (What's your point ? Implement similar WWII manufacturing strategies ?).
    Last edited by Siriusowner; 09-02-2009 at 10:30 AM.

  4. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    09-02-2009, 11:14 AM #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Siriusowner View Post
    Manufacturing & assembling jobs are workers jobs, most of them, blue collar.

    I do not say you should not look back, I agree, we learn from history but you suggested that putting in place strategies from the past is the way to go (What's your point ? Implement similar WWII manufacturing strategies ?).
    So did I say "we should be workers" or not? No, I didn't. What's my point you ask? Re-read the thread.

  5. Siriusowner is offline
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    09-02-2009, 12:51 PM #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    So did I say "we should be workers" or not? No, I didn't. What's my point you ask? Re-read the thread.
    Does it matter if you really say "we should be workers" or not ? Your point came accross that way. If that was not your point then what was it ?

    My point was that we should move on to the next step in our economic evolution as a country and that it will help, not only us but the rest of the world, move out of recession. Whether we move towards a service economy or not (Granted, I am pro-service economy), we should always strive to always learn from the past and look into the future.

  6. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    10-02-2009, 09:49 AM #36

    Jobs

    Look what happens when jobs are lost - whether it be "workers" or managers.

    We need to put these people to work (we being people like you and I).

    By the way, our plant is rocking. We are running balls out and have all shifts runnng tomorrow. In fact, we are short on raw materials in many cases. Having downsized, we are pulling in big money, and will certainly end the year in the black.

    I'm no macro economist, but something is going on. Our customers are ordering, and putting on additional shifts as well.

    I'm watching Fox News right now, and they are all gloom and doom. I say, come to MICHIGAN and take a look at our production floor, and talk to the new guys we've hired!!!!!

  7. mrmertz is offline
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    10-22-2009, 09:43 AM #37
    To get back to the original OP - personally I think we may just be at the START of seeing this whole mess turn around, but I DON'T think it will be as fast as I have heard some people saying. We still have a long haul ahead of us.

  8. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    10-22-2009, 11:00 PM #38
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmertz View Post
    To get back to the original OP - personally I think we may just be at the START of seeing this whole mess turn around, but I DON'T think it will be as fast as I have heard some people saying. We still have a long haul ahead of us.
    Agreed. In the short time I last posted, orders have declined. It appears to be a spike which may have very well been precipitated by cash for clunkers. Though, I will add that some other segments have seen strength. I don't know. I'm just reporting what I am seeing, and appreciate the same.

  9. Siriusowner is offline
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    11-02-2009, 12:00 PM #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    Agreed. In the short time I last posted, orders have declined. It appears to be a spike which may have very well been precipitated by cash for clunkers. Though, I will add that some other segments have seen strength. I don't know. I'm just reporting what I am seeing, and appreciate the same.
    The Permian basin in West Texas reports the following for Sept 2008 - Sept 2009:

    Retail Sales: 23.2% decline
    Auto Sales: 37.9% decline
    Enplanements: 12.3% decline
    Housing Starts: 3.7% decline
    Home Sales: 19.3% decline
    Home Prices: 6.1% decline

    So, encouraging is, there seems only one way we could go: UP.

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