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  1. tim wallick is offline
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    06-02-2009, 07:46 AM #151
    just read a small article via bloom-berg on gm and within the second or third sentence it laid the blame for this mess on the gm culture and failure of management to embrace the consumer demand for small fuel efficient models when consumers were asking.

  2. john is offline
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    06-02-2009, 07:55 AM #152
    Quote Originally Posted by tim wallick View Post
    just read a small article via bloom-berg on gm and within the second or third sentence it laid the blame for this mess on the gm culture and failure of management to embrace the consumer demand for small fuel efficient models when consumers were asking.


    Tim I'm sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever because the consumers were asking for SUVs up till the fuel prices hit over 3 bucks a gallon. It takes longer then a year or two to put new products out. You cant expect the company to turn on a dime and start to spitting out Pintos, and chevettes (well maybe the Pinto).

  3. tim wallick is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:00 AM #153
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Tim I'm sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever because the consumers were asking for SUVs up till the fuel prices hit over 3 bucks a gallon. It takes longer then a year or two to put new products out. You cant expect the company to turn on a dime and start to spitting out Pintos, and chevettes (well maybe the Pinto).

    well what i read said it actually happened about ten years ago and gm just dropped the ball on this issue.

    edit

    john

    in the context of the current issue i think your statement is correct in general.

    what i read i think is fact.

  4. john is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:03 AM #154
    Quote Originally Posted by tim wallick View Post
    well what i read said it actually happened about ten years ago and gm just dropped the ball on this issue.


    Then maybe you can answer this, if that is what people wanted 10 years ago why where SUVs the top selling auto. You cant explan it can you, thats because that Bloomburg piece is a load of crap.

  5. imromo24 is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:15 AM #155
    for a period of a few months people wanted small cars that ran on air, that was when gas was over $4 a gallon. If fuel cost is out of the question people "want" comfort. Plain and simple.

  6. tim wallick is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:18 AM #156
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Then maybe you can answer this, if that is what people wanted 10 years ago why where SUVs the top selling auto. You cant explan it can you, thats because that Bloomburg piece is a load of crap.
    John I'm not really sure,

    but in general with it taking five years from concept to building and sales..it could have some merit to the statement I'm not saying a larger percentage of sales would or could have been effected or replaced by small cars sales but clearly in the context of time required to market they missed the ball as they had no other small efficient model to sale period.

    un-less you count bk as a new efficient vehicle model......... lol

  7. imromo24 is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:22 AM #157
    the only non polutive solution is HOD, hydrogen on demand, derived from sources like borax combined with water, that generates hydrogen and by product is water. It exists and is in use in the army's batteries right now. Mostly in testing though. They can actually use urin and borax for soldiers in the field that don't want to waste drinking water.

    Company is/was called Millenium Cell.

  8. john is offline
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    06-02-2009, 08:34 AM #158
    Quote Originally Posted by tim wallick View Post
    John I'm not really sure,

    but in general with it taking five years from concept to building and sales..it could have some merit to the statement I'm not saying a larger percentage of sales would or could have been effected or replaced by small cars sales but clearly in the context of time required to market they missed the ball as they had no other small efficient model to sale period.

    un-less you count bk as a new efficient vehicle model......... lol

    Tim the only reason Toyota had the small cars was because of the country they are from and sold to most. That is also why they were criticized for missing out on the SUV market because they had none to sell to start with. The same gos for BMW, and all the rest of the foreign car makers. They sold the type of car to the market they sell the most in, like Europe, and Asia where fuel prices were always very high (and for the most part artificially made so by government taxes on fuel). We did not have that proplem here and noone could predict that speculators would push the price of oil so high so fast. Take speculation (or democrats) out of the equation and fuel would still be 2 dollars or less a gallon and SUVs would still be popular.



    P.S. Why would any OEM sink money into a car noone wanted. I say that because if there was one thing that was clear is that nobody in the USA (or so few they were not worth counting) wanted a pinto type car.
    Last edited by john; 06-02-2009 at 08:43 AM.

  9. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-02-2009, 09:51 AM #159
    Quote Originally Posted by dread View Post
    Its not what I believe, I don't care nor will I change my habits either, but what many others do believe. If you actually read the article, green peace is mentioned, big dummy!!! Here is another opinion piece. http://hubpages.com/hub/Prius


    First of all, prove to me that global warming is real, and not just cyclical sun cycles!!!
    YOU CANNOT!! You can only pump out opinions, no facts!!!
    http://www.climatepolice.com/

    Second of all, I do educate myself, you are clearly not a mechanic, nor do you have any back round in said industry. You might want to look into the turbo, and how it has improved the diesel engine over the years. You march around the site and tell everyone else to go get educated, you are no friend to our country, and Constitution, but you are a joke!! You may want to educate yourself on history to begin with. Start by asking Russia how things are going over there.

    Third of all, I was calling for GM, BK months ago, no bailout money, no nothing, let them fail. Free markets always determine this.

    Fourth, no one wants to buy these tin foil death traps, so now they are going to artificially inflate fuel prices through taxes and other means. Forcing people to buy this crap. http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...rillin/?page=2 I will not, especially when you get crushed in your tin foil car, then when you go to the hospital, your own government will decide if you are worth saving or not through national health care.



    Honestly, you people are so self righteous, hell you can't even save yourselves, let alone the planet. CO2 a pollutant? Give me a break!!! You think you can control and dictate everyone in order to create a utopia. Apparently you live in a fantasy world, word of advice, FACE REALITY!!

    Oh, and your great progressive Al Gore, who I remind you, invented the internet, is heavily vested in this green agenda, along with GE and others whom seek to profit off of your stupidity.

    I am not going to waste my time trying to convince any of you brain dead obama-bot zombies anymore!!! I will say this!!! Get the hell out of my country!!!!!

    Everyone else, have a good night, and good luck trading!!!
    Prove to me the earth is round. Oh i forgot you still believe its flat
    I dont have to prove to you that global warming exists. Almost every
    SCIENTIST out there studying the subject says it exist. But i know you
    will believe the few who say otherwise because you cant bear to admit
    that you might be wrong in your ideological rigidity.
    Have a nice day. And please stay in my country and educate yourself.

  10. relmor2003 is offline
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    06-02-2009, 11:31 AM #160
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Tim I'm sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever because the consumers were asking for SUVs up till the fuel prices hit over 3 bucks a gallon. It takes longer then a year or two to put new products out. You cant expect the company to turn on a dime and start to spitting out Pintos, and chevettes (well maybe the Pinto).
    That was their mistake. You dont give consumers what they want, you tell them what they want, then you give it to them. GM should have been telling the American people they want better gas mileage cars years ago. Advertise it, sell it. Instead they pushed what they wanted to push, their gas guzzlers. Which is fine, if they arent paying 10000 80 year old men to do nothing. And over paying fat supplier contracts that these companies now NEED, because they grew into them. Sorry Tim, but do you really think people DEMANED cable tv? Did they DEMAND cell phones. No, they didnt. But Verizon(GTE), convinced everyone they needed one, so soon enough, everyone needed one. The product sold itself after it became cheap and had a large network. But you should see the first purchasers. Huge phones . Expensive, and they could only be used in a limited area. People were not running out and DEMANDING cell phones.
    Did Americans in 1920 DEMAND cars. Of course not, but the invention spoke for itself.
    The American people are stupid. You dont give them what they want, you tell them what they want. And if it turns out to be a great product, look out!!
    All that being said, GM supplies an industry with trucks that does NEED them. They would have always sold new trucks. SUV's..... Maybe not.
    Last edited by relmor2003; 06-02-2009 at 11:38 AM.