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I am not surprised in the least, but its good to have information that helps us to develop an understanding of some of the reasons behind the Oil spill.
OOPS! Posted the wrong article. Sorry!
Here is the correct one.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6...epwater-spills
Those republicans are just aweful. Why can't we all just be democrats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Havakasha
Well facts are facts, as painful as they are to your sensitive ears. :)
I caught you S&L. You didnt even read the article since i just discovered i posted the wrong article (Palin comparing Obama to Hitler) by mistake. Read this article and respond to the FACTS!.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6...epwater-spills
Well, I suppose congratulatons are in order LOL. Nope, I didn't read it. I'm ABOVE assigning blame to the opposition party, and simply not interested. Like I've said so many times before, you can look back all you want. We have problems in front of us. I know you know that, but wanted to give you a friendly reminder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havakasha
I had a link for you yesterday, but didn't get to post it. Inmates were sent checks by the federal government. Give me a moment.
Here it is.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...-inmates_N.htm
And you want these guys to be responsible for stimulating the economy? Dear Lord Havakasha! You have too much faith, and in the meantime, OUR money is getting pissed away 100 ways to sundown by our, repeat OUR government.
Now I'm all wound up.
I know govt can be ineffecient, corrupt and wasteful, but lets not ignore what just happened with Wall st. because of a lack of govt regulation and oversight, and a mindset that corporations can do no wrong. i hope you are angry also at all the banks and other companies that have cost us many billions of dollars and caused the worlds financial markets to implode.
You can always find examples of govt incompetence. I would have to say however that with all the money that has been spent on the stimulus package,
it has been REMARKABLY free of taint of corruption and waste. Sometimes you have to look on the bright side of things S&L. :)
P.S. I know you understand you have to look back in order to understand why we are in this
mess today.
Right? :).
The bright side of an over reaching government?? Revolution is the bright side LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havakasha
The financial markets imploded because the visible hand of the federal government wanted all Americans to have a house - even if they couldn't afford it. C'mon now. It is really just that simple. Had our government figured out a way to sustain the housing bubble they created, NOTHING would have happened.
And I wouldn't just yet claim "REMARKABLY free of taint of corruption and waste". Remember Beverly Hills getting like $1MM to fill potholes?? Doesn't sound right to me.
Sorry, but its not really just that simple. But im glad your satisfied with a sound bite version of history. :D The housing bubble was helped along by govt, and private business. You should never forget Repubican Alan Greenspan and the Republicans in general who argued there was no bubble forming, who said that cutting taxes for the rich would not add to our deficits. How wrong they were.
Anyone who doesnt think there is a lot of inefficiency, corruption, and waste
in the free market system is living in a fantasy land. Lobbyists and big business have a tremendous amount of control over our govt and our lives. It would be nice if you at least understood that.
Looks like you got some slim pickings on the waste of the stimulus bill. Of course there will always be some but so far its been remarkably free of taint. And lord knows Fox news would be on that like a hound dog in heat. :)
P.S. I am all for the revolution that takes power away from the corrupt system of lobbyists sent by huge coporations which pretty much influence legislation. Thank god there is some fight back today under Obama as opposed to giving away the store under Bush/Cheney. You do remember those guys or is that too long ago for you?
How about we get back to the topic of this thread which is the Bush administration reversing Clinton administration on deepwater drilling? :)
"Lobbyists and big business have a tremendous amount of control over our govt and our lives. It would be nice if you at least understood that."
Of course you're talking about the big businesses that employ us and the ones we invest in, correct? The same ones that made America the greatest nation on earth. Damn big businesses; they're just like capital gains, just aweful.
Yes, big businesses have lobbyists to represent their interests in our government. So what? The mighty government knows right from wrong, correct? They aren't swayed by these evil individuals???
It sounds to me like you simply don't like capitalism or free enterprise? What system do you like?
Next week should be interesting. We are having corporate wide meetings and one of the topics is how health care reform will effect you. As I already noted, my beloved FSA will be taken away from me (I'm clearly too dumb to manage my own FSA). Are you familiar with Flexible Spending for medical expenses??
I am talking about the Corporations that lobby Congress and control legislation so that derivatives are traded in ways that bring down the worlds financial system. I am also talking about the pharmaceutical companies that lobby Congress and have helped to create the costliest health care system in the developed world. I am also talking about the Oil companies and auto companies which have fought changes in our energy plans so as to cost the consumer and this country both in years wasted and money lost. And on and on and on. I have no problems with big companies making profits, employing people and being the engines of growth in this country. I have a HUGE problem when they have inordinate power to control legislation which in the long run damages our economy and hurts the middle class and consumers in general.
Lets rein in the ABUSES. The pendulum swung too far in one direction under Bush/Cheney and its got to come back.
I like free enterprise. (My grandfather started one of the most successful restaurants in NY)
I dont like it when its no longer truly free enterprise .
You dont seem to get the fact that MONEY HAS CORRUPTED THE SYSTEM.
I thought this thread was about Bush and deepwater? Oh im finally seeing the connection. He helped to put us into this deep, deep mess that we are presently in. Both in the economy and with the oil spill. It all makes sense now. :)
So now money is on the list of your evils as well along with big corporations, capital gains, rich people......... And remember one thing about those derivatives; what were they derived from?? Mortgages. Bad mortgages. Do I have to revisit my favorite talking point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Havakasha
Hey, did you grandfather start Rao's?
Corrupt money spent to harm middle class people is definitely on my list. Always has been. Oh yeah you just reminded me of something i left off my list:Mortgage companies that pushed people with little or no income into mortgages they had no business being in.
Nope it wasnt Rao's. i can tell you off thread but not interested in posting here with someone like John lurking. He might organize a boycott. :D I say that in jest, but you always got to keep in the back of your mind he is one sick puppy.
i have no problem with anything on YOUR list. As matter of fact i love capital gains but i have no problem paying 20% on them. Kinda of what Warren Buffett believes. Oh yeah i forgot you want Buffett to pay a lower tax rate than his secretary even though he wants to pay more. :)
Those banks were incentivized by the government. Jeeze dude. In case you forgot how the damn thing worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havakasha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Mae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_mac
And Jeez dude you forgot how they created all kinds of schemes that backfired and brought the worlds financial system to its knees and helped put us into the 2nd worst recession in our history. We were VERY close to a DEPRESSION. 25% unemployment. Imagine if we had listened to those Republicans who didnt want any kind of bailout. Im talking deepwater and deep doo doo.
you can't handle the truth!!! Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by havakasha
Jeez and here i was thinking all this time that it was you who couldnt handle the truth. lol.
You two are cracking me up. So, since it's really slow at work today, I think I'll join right in.
To begin with. George Bush and Dick Cheney, the oil Gods, did help change rules and regulations that helped lead to this current disaster. History is important on this issue because without the two of them, regulations would have kept this sort of disaster from ever happening in the Gulf. Yes, Obama could have responded quicker if BP would have been honest from the start. But, BP wasn't honest and our country was not prepared for this type of accident. The trick now is to never let this happen again.
As for the recession......
Housing was a big part of it. Cheap credit for cars, tv's, candles, swimming pools and so on, played a big role too. And I think the high cost of oil played a major part also. If you remember, just before the recession started, oil was trading near 150 dollars a barrel. And once again, the trick is to learn from those mistakes and not repeat them.
Chuck
The big difference between you and Havakasha is that you promote learning, and he promotes blaming to support his liberal agenda. HA.Quote:
Originally Posted by candleman
I agree and am dissappointed that neither BP nor the US nor the State of Louisiana had any contingecy plans to this sort of disaster, and as a result of this disaster, should off shore drilling continue, we will better prepared to mitigate or eliminate this kind of thing.