http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
More info on health care reform.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
More info on health care reform.
Well I guess that I will become a "Christian Scientist" then.Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker
And make it against my religion!!
Kiss your "Roe v Wade" goodbye if thats the case!!
Here is your single payer crap, compliments from the bilhary campaign!!
http://vodpod.com/watch/1765187-obam...thcare-program
OK, I am done, nothing new here!!! Goodbye drone!!! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dread
Damn and i thought you were the drone!
if you read the article you will notice that single-payer supporters
oppose the mandates. Among other things that would mean what? Yes Dread thats right the Obama administrations plan is not single-payer. Sorry buddy
to point out facts.
Bilhary sounds like a drone word.
Health coverage is a mandate already.
If someone doesn't have coverage, they simply go to the hospital or communtiy clinic and they get health care.
The difference is that those folks without coverage are simply paid for by me, the business owner taxpayer.
IF healthcare is mandatory, then maybe those folks would actually have to pay for it.
But, what do I know? I'm just a happy tax paying Democrat that can't afford to pay the insurance coverage for my 13 employees, so they get screwed. Which means we all get screwed.
I would love to see anyone's ideas on this problem. But, it bothers me to no end that certain people with certain beliefs, just keep knocking any new ideas down without putting up any other new ideas.
Candleman
You do know that under the current proposels, you will not have a choice...you will be mandated to offer coverage to your employees...or be fined...So, guess what...you will have only a couple of choices...none of which are worth a crap...1. raise you prices to cover the increased costs (probable loss of some business), 2. Reduce your work force from 13 to whatever number it takes to reduce your costs enough to cover your remaining employees...3. Keep all your employees, pay for there insurance...and in 6-12 months...close your doors...Thats it!!!
Candleman- with 13 employees, your probably in the tax bracket that is going to be taxed even more...Sounds like your party is fixing to screw you as well!
If this is such a great idea...why doesn't the all Dem House, Senate, and Pres just pass it! Hummm...maybe they don't want to have their name on it when it totally destroys our healthcare system.
Don't get me wrong...I'm all for reduced healthcare costs for everyone(except undocumented immigrants)...I just believe that there is a rush to pass something...that in the long run...will be detrimental to our country!
Candleman- do you think that before a bill is passed...it should be read?
Lloyd
Looks like your man is starting to get crushed by the new polls that are coming out! > 50% are against the current proposed healthcare reform. And after tonights performance...number will be even worse! Couldn't even answer one softball question by the press!
He has no idea what is even being prosposed!
At one point, Obama stated...I have the best healthcare in the world!!!! Hummmmm...he has the best healthcare in the world...but our healthcare sucks? Doesn't add up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by just sirius
I believe the Obama administration will get a health care bill passed this year. Do you doubt it? What odds will you give me since he is "starting to
get crushed by the new polls" and "since after tonights performance....
number will be even worse" ;)
One can have the best batting average in the league and still be only batting
.333. There is always room for lots of improvement.:D
Lloyd
I think it is 50/50 that he gets one passed this year. I do believe that we will have healthcare reform...and it is needed...Must have a "viable" way to pay for it...IMHO current plan/plans cannot be sustained!
Again...the Dems say that it has been needed for 20-30-40 years now...why the rush to cram something through the house and senate...no matter how bad it is...just to get it done...Doesn't make sense.
if this so called plan is so good for the american people...why are 50 something Dems opposing it in the house...and probably 10 or more in the senate? Why...because they see it as unsustainable in its present form. The Dems want Rebublican support because this plan SUCKS and they do not want only their reputations on it if it blows up in there faces!
Whether the people want it or not...Obama plans on doing this...The porkulus bill was opposed by about 70% of americans...Dems did it anyway...Same thing fixing to happen here...then...Tax and Kill...My guess...80% of american people will oppose that one...who Fu%king cares...Will probably cram that down our throats as well. The people no longer have a voice!
I will guarentee you that if Obama and the Dems pass all of these so called plans...They will get hammered beginning in 2010...once the people realized that they are being taxed too death!
BTW- you convienently didn't address Obama's statement about the greatest healthcare in the world vs our healthcare system sucks.
If our healthcare sucks...then why are thousands upon thousands of people flocking to the US just to get treatment here.
If I were a member of the AMA...I would tell Obama to kiss our collective asses!!!! His statement that doctors use the billing code to determine treatment is absolutely ridiculous. I'm in the healthcare industry...sure there are bad apples in every bunch...but to make a blanket statement that they dictate treatment by how much money they will make is total BS.
The article is a copy of tweets from the health care bill. I don't tweet, so I find it annoying but good data in here. There is a link to the tweeters address at the top, and a link at the end of the article so you can verify the info on whats actually in the bill!!
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...acre-bill.html
Hey Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by just sirius
This bill is not about fixing health care, its about power and control.
Obviously a lot of people with opinions really don't have to deal too closely with this situation or they would understand it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by just sirius
In my case, I would love mandated insurance coverage for my employees. That would level the playing field.
As it is right now. My costs ARE higher if I have to pay for insurance for my employees and my competetor doesn't supply insurance. With a mandate, we all have the same costs per employee.
And yes, that would increase prices, but it would be the same increase for all of us. Hence, my prices wouldn't rise more than my competetors.
Those of us with degrees in business actually understand cost structure and pass through of those costs. That's why this isn't so scary for most of us who are educated. Unfortunately a lot of folks get information from blogs and email and they really aren't backed up with financial experience.
So, what is your educated answer to this problem. It's very easy to knock an idea down, but it is really difficult to offer an answer to this problem.
I find if rather funny that you think that I'd have to close my doors in 6-12 months if I offer insurance. That's not the fact at all. When we canceled our insurance coverage, we simply increased our employees pay by an average of 7K a year and we're still open and very profitable.
Like I said before, folks without knowlege really don't have much of a leg to stand on in this debate.
The last line in my post about batting averages was an attempt to address the statement about our health care system. I didnt "conveniently" avoid anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by just sirius
its not inconisistent to say something is the best in the world and yet say it has major problems that need fixing, and that the system needs to include everyone not just some. Its really a discussion about something minor so i really dont understand why you are fixating on it.
Can you provide me with the quote from Obama where he says our health care system "sucks"? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by just sirius
There are 10 Dem. Senators opposing his health plan according to you? I have read no such thing. What i know is that he would have no problem passing a plan if he needed 50 votes but he is trying to get 60 to avoid a filibuster. There are always going to be Democratic House members opposing Obama's plans becuase local conservative districts require different kind of voting. They have to protect their jobs which are up every 2 years.
Not surprising at all.
By the way the "plan" is still being negotiated.
I dont know what you think of Warren Buffet's business acumen but
he not only supported first stimulus package but thinks we need another
one. Smart people can and do disagree about these things. He argues
the first stimulus plan was like "taking half a Viagra" and mixing it with
all kinds of other medicines. Unfortunately thats how our Democratic system works. Its a lot easier to run the Govt of China and make unilateral decisions. There are usually compromise in ours.
No matter what health plan gets enacted it will in no way be perfect. Far from it. But we have no choice but to do something now. The argument
that we are rushing things is a little disengenious. We have been trying to
pass something for more than 20 years. The issues are well known.
I have no problem with the administration taking a couple months or more
but you have to acknowledge that there are people in the opposition who
are trying to delay things with the SOLE purpose of trying to kill it. There is
the fear from the Obama administration that if you wait too long and let too
many dice it up that you will end with something way worse or dead on arrival. I dont think its an unreasonable fear.
I just saw that and was coming over here to post and you beat me to it. For those of you who didnt click the link lets look at some of these detailsQuote:
Originally Posted by dread
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
Dread/Stang
Un-Fu%king believable! Thats all I got to say.
We better begin pounding our House and Senate reps on this immediately!
Tell us about your source for those INTERPRETATIONS. Did you invent it
or borrow it from some other site? Please credit the maker.
Lloyd
We have the best healthcare system in the world bar none. yes, it needs to be tweaked...no one is disputing that! Please read the post by Stang...Radical is all i got to say. This is not healthcare reform...It is as Dread states...it all about power and control!
Candleman
Agreed...we need some form of healthcare reform...check out the post above from stang...No need to present an alternative plan...This one is perfect! What a Fu%king joke...
I generally have not been very active politically...Things have now changed. I will do everything in my power to insure that every Dem house member in the state of Texas will not be re-elected. The Liberal/DEM party has pushed this moderate conservative to the breaking point. I can assure you...I now understand the rush to get this passed...You/they do not want the American public to know whats in this plan...I hope that they know that they are committing political suicide with this travesty and takeover of the American way of life.
I read the Stang post that's why i commented on his INTERPERTATION of the
bill.
I am sorry you think its all about power and control and not about trying to
give most Americans health care, and about TRYING to bring costs under control.
Did you read the Krugman article?
Obviously we again have to agree to disagree. Surprise.
if it wasnt clear i was asking Stang to tell me where the list came from.
Did he write it or embellish something from somewhere else?