Possible consolidation?

http://satelliteradiotechworld.blogs...t-band-of.html

XM, the wholly owned subsidiary of Sirius XM Radio, has filed an application to expand it range of frequencies to include the Sirius Satellite Radio band of frequencies. Previously, XM operated in the 2332.5-2345 MHz band, while Sirius operated in the 2320-2332.5. XM now seeks permission to operate over the entire satellite radion band from 2320 MHz to 2345 MHz. The stated purpose is to allow Sirius XM to design, test, and demonstate its terrestrial repeater network in order to optimize the network prior to deployment. Although the repeater networks operate in a different way, this could be the first step towards consolidating the two repeater networks. One also has to wonder if this could be a prelude to moving towards one satellite constellation.


I can't see this getting passed but very interesting.

Why cant you see this getting passed?

As long as all of the repeaters are opperating within the power limits set by the FCC and agreed on by Sirius XM (and reaffirmed when they got into trouble right before the merger was finalized) I do not see this as a problem. They are working to consolidate their repeater network. Why have 2 repeaters covering the same area when 1 will suffice? Shut down the second and sell it off for some cashflow. Sounds like a good idea to me.

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Originally Posted by Newman

Why cant you see this getting passed?

As long as all of the repeaters are opperating within the power limits set by the FCC and agreed on by Sirius XM (and reaffirmed when they got into trouble right before the merger was finalized) I do not see this as a problem. They are working to consolidate their repeater network. Why have 2 repeaters covering the same area when 1 will suffice? Shut down the second and sell it off for some cashflow. Sounds like a good idea to me.

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Good idea? Sounds like a great idea!! If the XM satellites were to have that same capability, wouldn't that make all Sirius radios then XM capable since XM would be broadcasting on Sirius spectrum?

No, it would not automatically make the radios interopperable.

It just means that they could broadcast over that spectrum. It is still encoded in a way that the radio can read it, which are different between SIrius and XM.

I see, thanks :)

With the new satellite going up in June, would they have been able to put the hardware in the satellite to encode signals both ways or am I overthinking this?

at one point a few years back ,recall both building or requesting to build mini repeaters that covered boths spectrum for use in malls and shopping centers..

I dont think this will be an issue at all it should get passed quickly

No, you are not overthinking this. The satellite will be able to broadcast to both. The radio will still not be able to recieve both.

And, it is only one satellite. Sirius has 3 in the sky right now, and XM has 4 in the sky. 1 Satellite won't replace all of these.

how much would this help the bottom line?

Thanks Newman. No, I was overthinking it. :)

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Originally Posted by SiriusHope

how much would this help the bottom line?

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First, they would spend half as much opperating one repeater system. If they launch more dual satellites, then they only have to have one satellite constellation isntead of two, reducing capex by half.

Then, they can sell excess terrestrial repeaters for some one-time revenue. Perhaps they sell them to Direct, since they have been looking to improve reception in large metropolitan areas.

They do have options...

This is excellent progressive news. Thanks. Lets hope it gets passed quickly.

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Originally Posted by Newman

Then, they can sell excess terrestrial repeaters for some one-time revenue. Perhaps they sell them to Direct, since they have been looking to improve reception in large metropolitan areas.

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Newman, like a satellite -- repeaters are mini-tranceivers. They receive the signal on one frequency then rebroadcast it on another. Like the satellites, they are tuned to very specific frequencies. Direct won't be able to use them as they are currently, they would need to be modified first. Besides, has DBS been approved to use ground-based repeaters? I don't think they have been.

What may happen would be for them to conslidate and fine tune the repeater system for both networks. The repeaters are going to have to be modified to be capable of the full bandwidth; then as they're consolidated, they will likely have leftover repeaters, which could be sold off or back to the manufacturer. Keeping in mind that whomever buys them, will have to modify them for their specific usage.


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Here was my response to the posting on SRTW...


My opinion on this filing -- I agree. This is a prelude to a one satellite system for both.

All indications are that Sirius-5 is going up soon and with XM-5 going up some time after that, it would seem to indicate the completion of a GEO constellation for both Sirius and XM combined to use.

Assuming the combined satellites and repeater network is successfully, this will allow Sirius to move away from the current HEIO constellation and use the same constellation as XM.

This will then allow XM to use XM-3 and XM-4 as in orbit spares for the XM system; and Sirius 1/2/3 as spares for the Sirius system. Although, the Sirius birds wouldn't have many years left on them; perhaps powering them down to be used as spares may slow down their demise. XM-1/2 are pretty much dead, as they're due to be retired in the next year or so.

What do you think?

This would also allow Sirius to modify Sirius-6 to be a spare and delay plans on the next one after that... saving a significant amoun on CAPEX.


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Originally Posted by homer985

Newman, like a satellite -- repeaters are mini-tranceivers. They receive the signal on one frequency then rebroadcast it on another. Like the satellites, they are tuned to very specific frequencies. Direct won't be able to use them as they are currently, they would need to be modified first. Besides, has DBS been approved to use ground-based repeaters? I don't think they have been.

What may happen would be for them to conslidate and fine tune the repeater system for both networks. The repeaters are going to have to be modified to be capable of the full bandwidth; then as they're consolidated, they will likely have leftover repeaters, which could be sold off or back to the manufacturer. Keeping in mind that whomever buys them, will have to modify them for their specific usage.


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homer that may be true but do you know what a bitch it is to be able to put up a tower. The zoning is a nightmare, noone wants them. It is kind of like billboards, thats why they say Viacom has a monopoly on them because they just cant build anymore because noone wants them. same gos for Cell towers. So in the end the changing of the specs on the towers would not be the problem.

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Originally Posted by john

homer that may be true but do you know what a bitch it is to be able to put up a tower. The zoning is a nightmare, noone wants them. It is kind of like billboards, thats why they say Viacom has a monopoly on them because they just cant build anymore because noone wants them. same gos for Cell towers.

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No need to put up any towers -- broadcasters (and now cell tower owners) ane begging for anyone to lease space on them. It's the new real estate in the spectrum world.

Regardless, XM already has around 700 repeater locations and Sirius has around 120 repeater locations. There's no need for new ones. They will consolidate and choose the best location for each particular area -- and replace the current repeater with a modified one capable of covering the whole spectrum, as they noted in the app. And since the XM repeater network is already set up for a GEO constellation, I wouldn't be surprised if they mostly keep the XM repeater network -- just modified for the Sirius bandwidth. With most of the Sirius repeaters being phased out as redundant... and sold off, or back to the manufacturer.

I'd expect the usual pissing an moaning by the usual suspects, when it comes to the repeaters -- but in the end, the FCC has no real reason to deny this application, IMHO. Afterall, they still have not released final rules regarding the repeaters yet.


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Originally Posted by homer985

Here was my response to the posting on SRTW...


My opinion on this filing -- I agree. This is a prelude to a one satellite system for both.

All indications are that Sirius-5 is going up soon and with XM-5 going up some time after that, it would seem to indicate the completion of a GEO constellation for both Sirius and XM combined to use.

Assuming the combined satellites and repeater network is successfully, this will allow Sirius to move away from the current HEIO constellation and use the same constellation as XM.

This will then allow XM to use XM-3 and XM-4 as in orbit spares for the XM system; and Sirius 1/2/3 as spares for the Sirius system. Although, the Sirius birds wouldn't have many years left on them; perhaps powering them down to be used as spares may slow down their demise. XM-1/2 are pretty much dead, as they're due to be retired in the next year or so.

What do you think?

This would also allow Sirius to modify Sirius-6 to be a spare and delay plans on the next one after that... saving a significant amoun on CAPEX.


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xm2 is being moved to a new location and just had the documents extended one day late last week by five years as a spare for xm to 2014

xm5 is being lauched as a spare for either sirius and xm based on other recent documents which have been apporoved by the fcc

it would be a good move just wonder how long it takes to get it done

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Originally Posted by tim wallick

xm2 is being moved to a new location and just had the documents extended one day late last week by five years as a spare for xm to 2014

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Both XM 1 and 2 are due to be retired in 2010

"We estimate that the XM-3 and XM-4 satellites will meet their fifteen year predicted useful lives, and that XM-1 and XM-2 satellites’ useful lives will end in 2010."

Perhaps you meant one of the other XM satellites? Regardless -- that is the CURRENT plan for XM-5, that it will be a in-orbit spare for both XM and Sirius. I have discussed this in other posts at length.

My posts in this thread is a hypothetical that sounds rational and possible. I believe that XM and Sirius may be in the process of converting over to a one-constellation system, for maximum synergies. To do this, they will need to change the plan -- I would not expect those plans to be formally announced until they know that a combined repeater network is feasible; nor until the other 2 satellites are launched and operational -- and work across the full spectrum... then, it would not surprise me to see XM and Sirius make a formal announcement of my speculation.

Again, it is just a hypothetical of what I think may be going on. They do not need to announce such plans yet. Their current plans as you bring up - and have discussed in the past, is all that needs to be known currently.



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Looks like they changed the plan a bit,also i think they all ready ran a combined mini repeater through the fcc a long time ago and it was oked ..i dont see it as a big deal to get though the fcc onboard and yes they should get this done as quickly as they can, as cash allows. and in order to reduce cash burn every where they can.

also worth noting and which could be semi related or just house cleaning by at&t and or the fcc

INFORMATIVE
SAT-STA-20010712-00063 XM RADIO INC.
By letter dated February 27, 2009, AT&T Wireless Services, Inc., by its counsel, withdrew its Application for Review (filed October 17,2001) of the Commission’s grant of XM Radio, Inc.’s request for special temporary authority to operate terrestrial repeaters in the Satellite
Digital Audio Radio Service, DA 01-2172, 16 FCC Rcd 16,781 (Int’l Bur. 2001).

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Nature of Service: Satellite Digital Audio Radio Service
On March 25, 2009, the Policy Branch granted, with conditions, the application of XM Radio Inc. to continue to operate its Satellite Digital
Audio Radio Service (SDARS) space station, XM-2, as an in-orbit spare at the 85.217° W.L. orbital location through March 31, 2014.

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heres the request for xm1 which would also extend use to 2014
SAT-MOD-20090217-00024

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Originally Posted by tim wallick

Looks like they changed the plan a bit,also i think they all ready ran a combined mini repeater through the fcc a long time ago and it was oked ..i dont see it as a big deal to get though the fcc onboard and yes they should get this done as quickly as they can, as cash allows. and in order to reduce cash burn every where they can.

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Tim, approval to 2014 (a 5 year term) is the current standard length of licenses typically issued for broadcast satellites - that is the reason for that dating.

FWIW, both satellites have been completely written off and hold no asset value for the company; and are in line to be retired in 2010, as I previously noted. When XM first discovered the anomoly in 2001, they noted that the useful lives would end sometime after 2005. So they began the replacement of them which increased the useful lives to early 2008. Once both were powered down, they were able to stretch a few more years out of them, out to 2010, as I noted. Frankly, 10 years for damaged satellites is pretty damn good -- but there is no way they will make it 2014. Remember, they need to have enough juice in them to be able to maneuver them to the satellite graveyard next year.

Regardles, XM applied to license XM-2 and XM-1 to their current slots in early 2004, which was approved. [EDIT: THIS IS INCORRECT. THE ORIGINAL LICENSE WAS AN 8 YEAR LICENSE GRANTED IN MARCH & MAY 2001 - AND EXPIRING IN 2009.] So XM was forced to apply for an extension -- which they requested a 5-year term. But that doesn't mean they'll be used until then, or that anything has changed. Those birds will be long dead by then. They were just renewing the expiring terms.

Again, I'm not saying they're not changing plans -- I believe they are. It's just not applied for yet or announced. I believe that they're just trying some things out to see if they work first -- then you'll see official license change applications filed.

I still believe that a conversion to one satellite constellation powering both systems using the 2 upcoming satellites makes the most sense... with the current XM satellites being used as in-orbit spares; and the current Sirius satellites being spares for that system. That would make the most economic sense in dealing with satellite CAPEX over the next 10-12 years.


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