SIRI Intraday Updates for the Week of 1/19/09

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Originally Posted by Demian

Those trades were going through below the bid and the ask, so it is very suspect. Who knows? With 100 share blocks painting the tape, you can assume that someone is trying to create a negative perception....

It didn't appear to work, because now SIRI has recovered and is trading green...

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The negative perception has already been created... since several months ago, that is no news. It does not take a lot of intelligence to know that a market maker is behind it. No serious trader (smart money: either institutional or market maker) will waste time with this illiquid issue unless they have several millions on the line. In this case institutional investors do not care about this issue getting some appreciation. Penny issues are easily manipulated due precisly to its illiquidity !!!

You can do it yourself. Just borrow shares and sell them short !

I thought that by now smart money would be out of the way and far away from this issue but it seems that there is ONE market maker that has a lot in the line. It may not be until after FEB that we see some serious movement to the upside IF that market maker gets out of the way. Y'all know who the market maker is, its name starts with the letter G....

And yes I did say whatever in the past about it going to 10 cents or finding support, blah, blah, blah, etc... but hey, this is a monster that was able to manipulate oil prices, it is impossible to compete with them. That is why I have stayed away from this issue and the markets all this week... I have been re-evalutaing my strategies.

There's one thing you are right: this issue has been manipulated and not only SIRI but the whole market.

ps: Do not get your hopes too high if the price goes up. Who do you think is buying the shares that make the price go up ? We all are, right ? Who is selling then ? I know the answer: A MARKET MAKER. Are you sure he has the shares or is he selling you borrowed shares ?

SIRI closed green @ .108....

SiriousOwner..
Now thats intelligent information... that shows true knowledge... And if you have a moment to share your knowledge I will owe you one!

How does a trader borrow shares and sell them or better yet sell them short?

hes not selling mine, non margin account. cash rules everything around me, cream get the money, dollar dollar bill ya'll

tripp you gotta help me here! It like your speaking in tongues...I guess it just over my head!

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Originally Posted by Sworntwofun

SiriousOwner..
Now thats intelligent information... that shows true knowledge... And if you have a moment to share your knowledge I will owe you one!

How does a trader borrow shares and sell them or better yet sell them short?

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Your broker should have a list of issues where you can borrow shares from him to sell short. Be careful though, if you did not get in 2 weeks ago, right now is not the moment to short any issue.

ps: Hedge fund managers may even be able to sell "naked", meaning without even borrowing the shares, but that is unlawful and there is no way we, as small as we are, could do it. I know MARKET MAKERS can sell "naked" very easily...again, that is unlawful though.

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Originally Posted by trippingthespeculatingpos

hes not selling mine, non margin account. cash rules everything around me, cream get the money, dollar dollar bill ya'll

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Sworntwofun is right, what are you talking about ???

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Originally Posted by ray

Thank you for your commitment to this site. I am really enjoying the great information. Does this not have to be a group on both sides of the stock trading these 100 share blocks or could one person do it?

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All stock market transactions have 2 sides, a buyer and a seller, HOWEVER; only one side is either actually buying or selling, YOU or ME ... the other side, eventhough is also "buying" or "selling", is just acting as an intermediary. He is called a MARKET MAKER.

What is a market maker ? well, it is your broker, a different brokerage firm, a bank or any other financial institution that has a brokerage arm.

You see, when you buy your shares, you buy them from a market maker. He/She has an inventory of issues he holds temporarly and he sells them to whoever wants to buy BUT he also buys them from whoever wants to sell. He tries to balance the market by adjusting the price of his issues according to the market sentiment. If there are to many buyers what do you think will happen ? his inventory will go down and he may start running short of a specific issue, so what do you think he will do with its price ? he will increase it to dis-encourage buying. That is why if there are too many buyers, the price of an issue goes up. Exactly the opposite happens when there are too many sellers. It is the law of supply and demand.

Try this simple excersise: Try to buy 1000 shares of SIRI whenever its price is going down (too many sellers). i.e: if the price right now is .11, put a limit order to buy at .12 (It will not get filled at .12). Can you figure out what happened ?

Now, place several 1000 share orders with limits from .12 thru .20.

Do the same but this time sell them.

It is called, price manipulation...and you can do it with 100 shares only.

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Originally Posted by Siriusowner

Sworntwofun is right, what are you talking about ???

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tripping are you saying you are using unleveraged cash on hand to buy your positions.
if so does that keep that block of stock from being manipulated
thankyou siriusowner and tripping for your thoughts

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Originally Posted by ray

tripping are you saying you are using unleveraged cash on hand to buy your positions.
if so does that keep that block of stock from being manipulated
thankyou siriusowner and tripping for your thoughts

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Leverage has nothing to do with stock manipulation. Leverage means that you borrow money to buy or sell short the shares. You can have 1:2, 1:3, 1:50... etc.... leverage ratio but again that is just money...

I feel like I want to cry....We are starting to mesh and network and its a beautiful thing! It shows we can all get along and make money too!
Thank you! All of you....

okay since people seem a little confused, correct me if im wrong but if u do not have a margin account then your broker cannot lend out your shares to be shorted, the second part was from a wu tang song. I prefer not to have my shares lent out to be shorted, probaly doesnt make a diff in the long run but what the hell, down with the shorters!

I think its enought for me to digest for one day...I am a self directed broker so Im still trying to figure it all out...I relize that its shorting is what been killing us at Sirius...so just wanted to try to understand how it happens...
I got to say it...SiriusOwner has shined tonight and I have a hole different prospective of him..now I wish he could see how Bill & tripp are also good guys and lets get busy....

what im saying is in order for your broker in my case thats td ameritrade, to lend out the shares you own to be shorted, you must have a margin account. If you do not have a margin account then the shares you own will not be lent out to be shorted. sworntwofun, shorting works like this, a broker takes shares that could belong to any1, and then lends them out to soem1 initiating a short position, that person then sales those shares and waits for the price to drop, when the price drops to where he is happy with he will then buy back the amount of shares he borrowd and sold from his broker so he can return them, he makes what ever the price diff was, for example:

broker lends me a 1000 shares of siri, that 1000 shares can belong to a client of the broker, once i get those shares i sell them at 22 cents a share for an amount of 220.
Then i sit back and wait for siri to fall in price, at 11 cents i buy the shares back for 110
and return the shares to the broker, so the diffrence is 110 which u get to keep. thats how shorting works, my point was if u have a non margin account your broker cant take your shares and lend them out to be shorted. If i had a margin account my broker could lend my 8500 shares to some1 to short siri, which wouldnt help siri imo thats why i prefer to not have my shares lent out.

p.s. you get what im saying now? lol

Your question is real clear now .... it was actually real clear the first time that you asked it, lol. :o
Did you notice that my message isn't there anymore?

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Originally Posted by trippingthespeculatingpos

hes not selling mine, non margin account. cash rules everything around me, cream get the money, dollar dollar bill ya'll

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Trip - love the explainer...and for everyone else wondering about Trip's "speaking in code", the tagline on the above post is a sweet and apropos reference to a line from your friendly neighborhood Wu-Tang Clan.
http://www.mychemicaltoilet.com/wuwuwu.jpg

Absoulty...I totally understand now and thats after 3 stiff Absoult Bloody marys....you explained it perfectly..Thanks...I basically closed all green today with exception to gtxo but being I was gonna buy it at .22 and bills heads up let me get it at .14...it closed @.13 so he still save me on that on and I considered my self way up on that..overall it was a good day...Now I wished a got some ABK when it was a buck..It closed at 1.10 and even lvlt was up...I really like what we got going on here! Its all good...If it wasnt for Sirius I wouldnt have a clue about stocks.. but I watch it all and live it everyday Pre Market, market and AH since before the merger... so I think I getting a feel for this...I hit bac on the money sold it and bought it back already...Citi I misses the first run but picked it up on the second round... There is only 2 things that stops me...Fear and common sense... But its been a real pleasure hooking up with you and bill and the other guys too! Its pretty cool getting involved with different people from all walks of like with a common purpose turning a nickel into a quarter...

Today looked good for me too - you wouldn't have expected it with all the strange gyrations lately and mixed bag of news. NASDAQ kept a lot of people smiling (at least a little). scooped up IAB yesterday since everyone still seemed to be betting on nationalization, that worked out well.:) we'll see if it keeps up. but enough about that - long Sirius - godspeed.

haha i love that wu tang pic

Siriusowner - - - - one word --- EXCELLENT.!! I too have been trying to wrap my brain around how this worked. The way you took the time to describe "price manipulation" and how the actual transaction takes place cleared up a bunch of confusion on my side!

Appreciate!!!

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Originally Posted by Siriusowner

All stock market transactions have 2 sides, a buyer and a seller, HOWEVER; only one side is either actually buying or selling, YOU or ME ... the other side, eventhough is also "buying" or "selling", is just acting as an intermediary. He is called a MARKET MAKER.

What is a market maker ? well, it is your broker, a different brokerage firm, a bank or any other financial institution that has a brokerage arm.

You see, when you buy your shares, you buy them from a market maker. He/She has an inventory of issues he holds temporarly and he sells them to whoever wants to buy BUT he also buys them from whoever wants to sell. He tries to balance the market by adjusting the price of his issues according to the market sentiment. If there are to many buyers what do you think will happen ? his inventory will go down and he may start running short of a specific issue, so what do you think he will do with its price ? he will increase it to dis-encourage buying. That is why if there are too many buyers, the price of an issue goes up. Exactly the opposite happens when there are too many sellers. It is the law of supply and demand.

Try this simple excersise: Try to buy 1000 shares of SIRI whenever its price is going down (too many sellers). i.e: if the price right now is .11, put a limit order to buy at .12 (It will not get filled at .12). Can you figure out what happened ?

Now, place several 1000 share orders with limits from .12 thru .20.

Do the same but this time sell them.

It is called, price manipulation...and you can do it with 100 shares only.

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