What are the chances we can AVOID a R/S??

Ask yourself these questions Newman...

What incentive does any US corporation or small business have to borrow money when every tax they have on their books by Uncle Sam is going up in the very near future?

Other than effecting the prices of all goods and services negatively, what part of Cap and trade don't you understand?

What incentive do you or I have to get back into the market when the Feds are getting ready to raise Capital Gains and the tax on dividends?

Since money doesn't grow on trees, where do you think we are getting the $3.7 trillion to pay for all this deficit spending? I don't see any big lines waiting to loan us any money. Don't forget we're already indebted to China for nearly a trillion dollars in loans and they are hurting in this global recession much the same as we are. Only choice left is to print lots more dollars and by doing so we devalue the dollar in the process and the end result is enevitable inflation.

By raising taxes on the rich, Uncle Sam is really taxing everybody. Since businesses have already been scaling down, the enevitable price hikes will result in less purchasing from the consumer...therefore, leading to businesses cutting back (laying off) even more.

I am by no means a doom n gloom guy. I'm a realist. What you said about the media is dead on. They have attributed to this recession being falsley accussed of being the worst since the Great Depression. I'm with you on that. The recession of 1982 is still the worst on the books. With that said, the agenda coming out of the White House is mostly aimed at creating welfare type programs with massive spending budgets as we are all witnessing. The fact they are not doing anything that is historically proven to deal with recessions (tax rate cuts), may very well cause this current recession to be the worst when it's all said and done.

Doctor G: As much as it appears that we are disagreeing, in a strange way we are in total agreement.

I think everything the government is doing is a bad idea and moving us in the wrong direction. This is why I said that NOTHING like this should be done, and instead just loan some money to the banks and force them to loan it out (while putting in stipulations such as Credit Score over XXX, something like 600 or even 550). Cancel all of the stupid tax hikes, cancel all of the PORK that was in these "rescue" bills, and loan a PORTION of that trillion dollars to the banks and force them to lend it out. This will stimulate the economy and reverse the current situation, or at least be a damn good start. Fine, leave tax CUTS in place for now or tax credits for buying a new vehicle or house, but take out the rest of the garbage.

Just stimulate the economy by getting the banks loaning again. Why did Sirius almost claim bankruptcy? Not because of lack of revenue, because of lack of loans available. Why did circuit city go BK? Because of lack of funds. Why are the Automotives dying? Because no one is buying because of lack of funds...

An increase in unemployment to a level of 5% did NOT cause all of this recession crap. Lack of money did.

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Originally Posted by Newman

Doctor G: As much as it appears that we are disagreeing, in a strange way we are in total agreement.

I think everything the government is doing is a bad idea and moving us in the wrong direction. This is why I said that NOTHING like this should be done, and instead just loan some money to the banks and force them to loan it out (while putting in stipulations such as Credit Score over XXX, something like 600 or even 550). Cancel all of the stupid tax hikes, cancel all of the PORK that was in these "rescue" bills, and loan a PORTION of that trillion dollars to the banks and force them to lend it out. This will stimulate the economy and reverse the current situation, or at least be a damn good start. Fine, leave tax CUTS in place for now or tax credits for buying a new vehicle or house, but take out the rest of the garbage.

Just stimulate the economy by getting the banks loaning again. Why did Sirius almost claim bankruptcy? Not because of lack of revenue, because of lack of loans available. Why did circuit city go BK? Because of lack of funds. Why are the Automotives dying? Because no one is buying because of lack of funds...

An increase in unemployment to a level of 5% did NOT cause all of this recession crap. Lack of money did.

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Oracle....Amen. You know and I know. Why can't people see this?

It is so basic.

Thanks buddy,

Bill

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Originally Posted by homer985

They cannot do a share buyback. There are convenants in some of the debt issues that prevent share buybacks before repurchasing the debt.

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It wouldn't make any sense - retiring debt should be just as good for the stock anyway.

You're speaking in "what-ifs", while I'm speaking in absolutes. Congress passed the Stimulus bill and the Omnibus bill, and our idiot leader signed them both into law. The current economic environment is such that folks are not lining up in droves to get loans, nor are the majority of small businesses and corporations.

We the people allow our government to act irrationally and irresponsibly with our taxpayer money...by who we vote for. Economic insanity is what's taking place in Washington right before our own eyes. While politicians are not showing a lick of intellect in regards to our economy and fiscal requirements of this Country, business owners in the real world have to play play by the rules. Unlike the warped sense of perception our so-called lawmakers are showing the entire world in regards to running the biggest business of all, our government...business owners don't have an unlimited supply of blank checks at their disposal compliments of the US taxpayer.

Our very own Government is forcing our business owners to do the things necessary to prepare for the onslaught of new taxes and higher rates to existing taxes which will soon be at their doorsteps. These necessary steps don't require them to take out new loans, but on the contrary, they will be doing the complete opposite. Downsizing has been underway for over a yr for many US business owners, and since the election, downsizing has accelerated. With the worst cases being forced into bankruptcy, as already evidenced by a 50% uptick in those numbers just last yr.

My Wife is always telling me I'm too much an optimist. But the sad truth in regards to our economy, is that the idiots minding the store in DC, are setting the table for some really bad times ahead. I would love to be wrong on all this, but we havn't begun to see the worst of all this by a long shot. Just wait to the reality of the "Tax the Rich" montra, really sinks into all those evil rich folks. You know, the rich folks who own the businesses we all work for. Yeah, those are the ones. Last I checked, I've never worked for a poor person.

My what-ifs and your absolutes come down to the same ending: Our government is full of morons.

My problem with government is that it has always been government for the rich and by the rich. The congressmen and senators do not live in the same world we live in. They don't have to depend on medicare when they retire, because they have a marvelous retirement package from the government. They all own big businesses themselves. But you know what you are wrong about Doctor G? This tax bill will actually not really affect most big businesses. They will hurt the middle size businesses and the mom-and-pops of the world. BIG businesses get tax relief and government subsidies to run. Again, big business does not live in the same world as we do.

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Originally Posted by Newman

My what-ifs and your absolutes come down to the same ending: Our government is full of morons.

My problem with government is that it has always been government for the rich and by the rich. The congressmen and senators do not live in the same world we live in. They don't have to depend on medicare when they retire, because they have a marvelous retirement package from the government. They all own big businesses themselves. But you know what you are wrong about Doctor G? This tax bill will actually not really affect most big businesses. They will hurt the middle size businesses and the mom-and-pops of the world. BIG businesses get tax relief and government subsidies to run. Again, big business does not live in the same world as we do.

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Tax increases on "the rich" will be dealt with the same way increases in commodities are dealt with. They will be passed on to the consumers. Middle and lower classes will carry the burden. I laughed out loud when Obama said he was going to raise taxes on the top 5% and lower taxes on the remaining 95%. Much like the the stupid idea proposed by the democrats of raising taxes on the petroleum industry to penalize them for their high profit margins.
Businesses exist for the sole purpose of making profits. Increase the cost of doing bussiness and they will respond by laying off employees, cutting benefits and increasing the cost of goods and services. Those are all moves targeted at the middle and lower classes. I tried to explain this to a fellow employee that was a devout "Obamanite" prior to the election. He was convinced that he was finally going to get his piece of the pie. As soon as Obama was elected the company pulled the trigger on a 20% downsize and he is now unemployed. I spoke with him yesterday and he is kicking himself in the A** for buying into all the "I'll save you....." BS. Alexander Tyler was dead on and we are heading straight for the really nasty part of the cycle of democracy. My buy recommendation is........Guns and Ammo. I see that Smith and Wesson reported double digit growth in the middle of a nasty recession. Sorry for the rant.

The only saving grace about this tax situation is that for the first 2 years, there are no increases on anyone. None of the increases goes into effect until 2011, so they have time to correct their mistakes.

he was going to get his piece of the pie? See i have a hard time believing this story, its too foxed up. Funny how returning to the 1990's tax code is making so many people upset.

Newman/Doctor G

Your both exactly right!!!!!

Newman - we are blessed to live in Texas where our economy is holding up quite well. Look at all of the states sucking hind tit...California, Michigan, Kansas, NY, Ohio, Penn...What do they all have in common? I know that there are alot of people in those states hurting real bad right now, but in most cases, they did it to themselves! Remember, elections have consequences!!!

Bought a new car today!!!!! Nothing down, in fact, upside down on my trade in...Got to choose my lender from 4 different sources. I believe that the money is there. Do not understand your parents situation, unless they went to wrong lender.

In general, I haven't been very fond of Gov Perry. But I like his stones in telling the President to keep his 1/2 B for unemployment. Would have hurt business in the long run.IMHO In the near future, I think the state of Texas should make a play like Malone...Loan the country some cash and take a 40% stake...But then buy more and take control of our country!!!!

Who is John Galt?

Must reading right now: The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes

Ah, the United States of Texas. Has a nice ring to it. =) Texas has a surprisingly good economy, and that is without any state income tax. Perhaps that is WHY our economy is keeping up, because people still actually want to move here. I went to a foreclosure auction about 2 weeks ago. Houses were still going pretty expensive, and they were all in bad neighborhoods or trashed out. Was hoping to pick up something relatively cheap. Maybe I could get Bill to come down and fix it up and flip it for me. =P

Congrats on the new car. What did you get?

As far as my parents, they have gotten a new car since that incident. That incident was nearly 3 months ago around Christmas time. They got into a Ford F250 Superduty Turbo deisel, nearly a 65k truck, and they got it for 47k. Plus they traded in my dad's old truck for an additional 10k. AND got 0% financing. They got a decent deal. ;)