The Tax Cut Nobody Heard of.

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10-20-2010, 01:59 PM
Atypical

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong

I didn't miss the point. To survive the ciriculums cited, one does need to be logical, scientific and critical. You missed the point.

Okay. But you stink too.
10-20-2010, 02:00 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atypical

"So we line the surface of the world with solar panels, and that enegy no longer gets absorbed into the Earth".

Your premise is implausable. Your inquiring, (and scientific) mind should have known that.

Hmmmm. That's not so progressive of you. I mean there were probably lots of folks 80 years ago who believed that burning fossil fuels wouldn't be a problem. Off topic, but....
10-20-2010, 03:14 PM
Havakasha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

S&L, where do you get your tax information from? Fox news? Who told you 50% pay income tax? Its actually 62% and then "HOWEVER, BEING EXEMPT FROM INCOME TAX DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE EXEMPT FROM FEDERAL TAXES." . ABOUT 60% OF THOSE PEOPLE PAYING NO INCOME TAX ARE MAKING UNDER $20,000. Wow, how the hell does anyone live on less than 20,000. You seem to have zero compassion for them. I wouldnt want to have to pay income tax on that little amount if i was them.

READ ON AND GET THE FACTS!

This is from FACTCHECK.ORG
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...ns_pay_no.html

"About 38 percent of households have zero or negative income tax liability, but they pay other federal taxes.
Towards the end of the campaign, John McCain and prominent conservatives like Lou Dobbs claimed that Barack Obama's proposed tax plan would amount to welfare because it offered a tax credit to the 40 percent of Americans who pay no taxes. We've already looked into the claims that Obama's tax plan is a welfare handout (in short, it's primarily a matter of how you define "welfare," but Obama's plan doesn't look any more like welfare than McCain's). But what about that 40 percent with no tax liability? Can it really be true that more than a third of the country pays no taxes at all?

According to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, it is true that 38 percent of "tax units" -- which can be singles, couples, or families -- are projected to have zero or negative income tax liability in 2009. About 60 percent of these households make $20,000 per year or less.

However, being exempt from income tax does not mean you're exempt from federal taxes. Everyone who works is liable for payroll taxes, contributions to Medicare and Social Security that come out of every paycheck. There are also excise taxes on some goods and services, most notably the 18.4 cents per gallon tax on gasoline. The Congressional Budget Office found that earners in the lowest quintile, where most of those with no income tax liability fall, shouldered 4.3 percent of the payroll tax burden in 2005 and 11.1 percent of the excise taxes. Their effective tax rate (which is calculated by dividing taxes paid by total income) in those categories, according to the CBO, was in fact significantly higher than the rate of the top quintile, although that top one-fifth of the population had a much higher effective tax rate for individual and corporate income taxes."

S&L you avoided a large part of what is discussed here.
When you say 50% of ncome tax you meant only Federal correct?
Do you think the 60% of the people who dont pay Federal Income tax and
make under $20,000 a year SHOULD pay Federal income tax?
10-20-2010, 03:42 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

S&L you avoided a large part of what is discussed here.
When you say 50% of ncome tax you meant only Federal correct?
Do you think the 60% of the people who dont pay Federal Income tax and
make under $20,000 a year SHOULD pay Federal income tax?

You're driving me nuts Lloyd, Mr. Implausible. Hard to believe I'm more progressive than you and your buddy.

It's right here.

• The Tax Policy Center has found that while everyone is expected to pay payroll taxes, only 47% of American households now pay federal income taxes. That would mean that 53% of households DO NOT pay federal "payroll" taxes. Right?

Here is a link to the Tax Policy Center

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/aboutus/index.cfm

I do have to thank you for making me more aware of who is writing this stuff. The Tax Policy Center seems quite credible.

Everyone should pay income tax. Of course, there should and is an exemption point. It's the price of democracy. If you enjoy the democracy, pay in to it.
10-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Havakasha

I misread it. i thought it said 47% DIDNT pay federal income tax.
What happened in 2 years for the % to go from 38% to 53% (if those are
indeed the correct numbers)?

Just curious what % of income tax you think those 60% (of the ones who dont pay federal income tax) should pay who make less than 20,000 per year should pay?
10-20-2010, 03:54 PM
Havakasha

S&L I thought you might find this interesting. :D

One of the striking ironies of Fox News running with the statistic that 47% of Americans might not owe federal income taxes is that Fox News also moonlights as the unofficial station of the Tea Party movement, which clamors for lower taxes. You might ask: half of the country pays no income tax, how much lower do you want? Here's a more troubling point: if the Tea Party movement has a similar share of Americans making under $50,000 as the broader population (as a recent Gallup poll suggests), then why is this movement rallying under the banner "Taxed Enough Already!" when half of them aren't taxed at all?

Forty-five percent of self-identified "Tea Partiers" make less than $50,000 per year, according to a USA Today/Gallup poll. Similarly, 50% of the total population makes less than $50,000 in the same poll. Despite this author's lack of direct access to the tax returns of the Tea Party movement, it seems safe to assume that if about half the country avoids federal income taxes, a similar percentage of the Tea Party movement gets away with the same even as they march and scream about their tax burden.

This is a gotcha point. But it's a gotcha point worth making, if only to shine light on the sad intellectual bankruptcy of the Tea Party, a political movement that has taken over the news cycle like a particularly aggressive strain of ragweed. Tea Partiers want lower income taxes. But many of them probably don't pay income taxes. If we listen to them and bring even more Americans into the zero-income tax pool, we would only concentrate more of the tax burden on wealthy earners ... which conservatives are against. Tea Party apologists on TV will explain that what they're really asking for is lower rates and a broader tax base to diffuse America's tax responsibility. But if half the Tea Party doesn't pay income taxes today, a broader tax base -- even with minuscule rates -- would raise many of their taxes!

The party's labyrinthine position on tax policy isn't worth untangling any further. It's a Gordian Knot that deserves a guillotine. When liberals and conservatives in Congress and think tanks and conference rooms debate tax policy in the coming months, they should consider a wide buffet of reform options -- but hold the tea.
10-20-2010, 04:07 PM
SiriuslyLong

Have you checked out the Tax Center Policy website? It's full of information. Here's a link on small businesses.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...dents_plan.cfm

You know, so much of it is political posturing. Obama wants to reduce taxes for small businesses, and yet he wants to eliminate breaks for many of those same people who make a certain amount. See my point? It's like a zero sum game, but 1.) he raises taxes on the rich, and 2.) supports small business's - two wonderful things to do lol.
10-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Havakasha

Originally Posted by Atypical
"So we line the surface of the world with solar panels, and that enegy no longer gets absorbed into the Earth".

Your premise is implausable. Your inquiring, (and scientific) mind should have known that.
Hmmmm. That's not so progressive of you. I mean there were probably lots of folks 80 years ago who believed that burning fossil fuels wouldn't be a problem. Off topic, but....

S&L. Stop while you only look a little foolish. No one will ever be covering the entire surface of the world with solar panels.
I guess its hard for you to acknowledge that you made a REALLY implausable and dumb point.
10-20-2010, 04:17 PM
Havakasha

I will check out the taxpolicycenter. just hope its not one of those Fox news think tanks.

Still would like an answer to my question.

What % of Federal income tax do you think all those people who make under $20,000 a year should pay?
As well, maybe you can also tell me how can you have a decent life making under $20,000 a year.

My grandfather was extremely successful and hated paying taxes (back then it was something like a 90% tax rate i believe. Today people cry about 38%. lol.) but he always had tremendous empathy for those who were less fortunate. He would NEVER (absolute truth) turn down someone on the street who asked for money or food. Thats because he never forget the poverty in which he grew up. You seem like many today who are bitter about and without empathy for those who are in need. I find that really sad.
10-20-2010, 04:22 PM
Havakasha

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong

Have you checked out the Tax Center Policy website? It's full of information. Here's a link on small businesses.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...dents_plan.cfm

You know, so much of it is political posturing. Obama wants to reduce taxes for small businesses, and yet he wants to eliminate breaks for many of those same people who make a certain amount. See my point? It's like a zero sum game, but 1.) he raises taxes on the rich, and 2.) supports small business's - two wonderful things to do lol.

Its been proven over and over again that the overwhelming majority of small businesses would NOT see their taxes go up.

I find it interesting that you fail to talk about the Republican opposition to small business tax cuts period. Is that political posturing? :D
10-20-2010, 04:32 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

Just curious what % of income tax you think those 60% (of the ones who dont pay federal income tax) should pay who make less than 20,000 per year should pay?

I worry more about those that are making decent money and are not paying taxes. Like the idiots who take a huge mortgage then get to write off the mortgage interest, or the idiots who keep having children to get another deduction or more entitlements.

But to answer your question, I think making minimum wage + X exempt from federal taxes. Think about it. It may lead to an opportunity to reduce government.

Ooooh the UK announces a 5 year austerity plan.............. How about those French? They've gone mad! And here you and I have to work to 67 or something like that, AND social security might not be around. How about we go start a riot? We're a bunch of pussies compared to the French lol. Actually, we are more self reliant.
10-20-2010, 04:38 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

Originally Posted by Atypical
"So we line the surface of the world with solar panels, and that enegy no longer gets absorbed into the Earth".

Your premise is implausable. Your inquiring, (and scientific) mind should have known that.
Hmmmm. That's not so progressive of you. I mean there were probably lots of folks 80 years ago who believed that burning fossil fuels wouldn't be a problem. Off topic, but....

S&L. Stop while you only look a little foolish. No one will ever be covering the entire surface of the world with solar panels.
I guess its hard for you to acknowledge that you made a REALLY implausable and dumb point.

Actually, it is a very forward thinking and good point. You're just blinded by solar. I'm talking about sound science. On a global basis, what happens when you take away 1%, 2%, 5% or 10% of the radiant exposure generated by the sun? What appears foolish today....... Hasn't history taught us that?
10-20-2010, 04:43 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

Its been proven over and over again that the overwhelming majority of small businesses would NOT see their taxes go up.

I find it interesting that you fail to talk about the Republican opposition to small business tax cuts period. Is that political posturing? :D

No, it is not posturing. The "tax cut" is already in place. Why raise them, then lower them for these effected small businesses? Seems kind of dumb. Just saying.
10-20-2010, 04:47 PM
Havakasha

"Your just blinded by solar"
That has to be one of your stupidest comments. i am not "blinded by solar".
Are the Chinese blinded by solar as well?
It happens to be ONE of the alternative energies that will grow into the future. Its not a panacea for all our energy problems, nor is any ONE form of energy, but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle.

Stop with the silliness. Damn every time i think you might have a brain you say something that destroys conversations.

So what % should those making exactly $20,000 pay in Federal income tax? A number please.

Please tell the world how many solar panels it would require to take away 1. 1% 2.2% 3. 5%
4.20% of the radiant exposure generated by the sun.
Then tell us what Fox show you heard this on. LOL.
10-20-2010, 04:52 PM
Havakasha

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong

No, it is not posturing. The "tax cut" is already in place. Why raise them, then lower them for these effected small businesses? Seems kind of dumb. Just saying.

What's dumb is that is not what he is doing. But you go on believe your Fox News disinformation. What % of small businesses will be affected by going back to the Clinton tax rate for those making over $250,000?
10-20-2010, 04:56 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

So what % should those making exactly $20,000 pay in Federal income tax? A number please.

Um, in post 51 I answered the question, at least generically. And I think the answer would probably wind up being ZERO.

Don't get all dramatic about "blinded by solar". The concern I express is valid and important to our Earth Planet. I'm sorry if you can't relate to it.
10-20-2010, 05:02 PM
Havakasha

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong

Um, in post 51 I answered the question, at least generically. And I think the answer would probably wind up being ZERO.

Don't get all dramatic about "blinded by solar". The concern I express is valid and important to our Earth Planet. I'm sorry if you can't relate to it.

I dont like generically. I want specifically. Are you saying they should pay zero? if so that is what they pay now. So stop complaining "generically". Lol.

When you make stupid comments like "blinded by solar" which have no facts behind it I will be "dramatic" all i want. Its a meaningless and really dumb statement with ZERO intelligence behind it .
"the concern i express is valid". Really. Then give me the answer to my question. How many panels will it take? Stop stalling and answer the question.
10-20-2010, 05:10 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

What's dumb is that is not what he is doing. But you go on believe your Fox News disinformation. What % of small businesses will be affected by going back to the Clinton tax rate for those making over $250,000?

OK, you can knock off the Fox Business News rhetoric. It's as old and tired as "taxing the rich".

You do cite a good question. In the original link http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...dents_plan.cfm the TPC runs three estimates. I would need a tax accountant to interpret them though.
10-20-2010, 05:13 PM
SiriuslyLong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havakasha

I dont like generically. I want specifically. Are you saying they should pay zero? if so that is what they pay now. So stop complaining "generically". Lol.

When you make stupid comments like "blinded by solar" which have no facts behind it I will be "dramatic" all i want. Its a meaningless and really dumb statement with ZERO intelligence behind it .
"the concern i express is valid". Really. Then give me the answer to my question. How many panels will it take? Stop stalling and answer the question.

That's enough for today Lloyd; you appear to need a bottle and a nap.
10-20-2010, 05:20 PM
Havakasha

Yes, enough for today.
Come back tomorrow with facts about your energy plan.

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