SIRI Intraday thread: Monday June 1st

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06-01-2009, 09:56 AM
underway

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

Wow now thats what I call a real scientific poll. LOL>
Prove that with regard to the new Prius or the honda civic hybrid or new honda hybrid. Put your money where your mouth is
Now i would agree with you about a bunch of hybrids the US car companies and even the Japanese are turning out right now which are BS financially.
I hate to inform you, however, that the FUTURE of the automobile is hybrids and electrics as well as better diesel (check Europe) and in 10 years you will pretend you never said what you said. :D

Because they pay more than $5/gal in Europe for gas! Totally different scenario.
06-01-2009, 09:59 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by underway

Sure, unions caused huge problems. And yes, the public wanted SUVs. And, with gas prices down, they still do! I personally think that the Japanese (and others of late) entry in the US market created too much capacity, and the American companies failed to react quickly enough to effectively keep them out. Union wages, union rules affected cost and quality, to your point. Consumers will always make choices in their own best interest, so the 'buy American' campaigns never work for long. Companies either compete or die. And, auto companies that build 'green' cars that use inefficient and expensive technology will not be competitive, especially with low fuel costs. The gov't can madate all they want about green technology, but they can't force the natural development of cost effective solutions. They are either discovered or they're not. Economics drives this, not policy. Socialism always fails in the long run. Not many true technical and scientific discoveries coming out of socialist countries. Capitalism is necessary for progress. Proven time and time again.

Last time i checked the Japanese and Spanish were Capitalists.
By the way there is more than one form of Capitalism.
I gave you one example with Spanish high speed trains.
06-01-2009, 10:04 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by underway

Because they pay more than $5/gal in Europe for gas! Totally different scenario.

They actually pay closer to $8 to $10.
Gas prices after a Recession will rise. Inevitable.
You dont dispute that the future of the automobile industry will
be hybrids, hybrid electrics and electrics do you.
Have you checked the beautiful Tesla? That was a small company
doing it on their own. 2nd generation will bring price down to $50,000.
3rd and 4th genreration? Israel is working with Renault and Nissan to develop an all electric car country. They will be able recharge the car at its parking spot.
This is all coming within 10 years.
06-01-2009, 10:05 AM
trippingthespeculatingpos

damn wish i would of got gm at .27 heh almost a triple already
06-01-2009, 10:06 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by underway

Because they pay more than $5/gal in Europe for gas! Totally different scenario.

Are you disputing what i said about the future of the auto industry or not?
06-01-2009, 10:08 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

You sound as surprised as the Johnny Irish, Reimor etc. Johnny "Take it to the bank". Hey Johnny i couldnt help rubbing it in. Sorry!:o

Sorry lloyd,yoiu only get a half win call because they are calling it BK,IT IS NOT BK,it is a nmerger with Gov't only....still was right with not going to my form of BK which was bondholders and union getting screwed as well as share holders..
06-01-2009, 10:10 AM
relmor2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

Sorry lloyd,yoiu only get a half win call because they are calling it BK,IT IS NOT BK,it is a nmerger with Gov't only....still was right with not going to my form of BK which was bondholders and union getting screwed as well as share holders..

Exactly. Read my post earlier. I said I should of said there would be no messy BK allowed by the Government. Nice cop out!!! Im with you!! Im holding to be correct here.:p:D
06-01-2009, 10:10 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by relmor2003

Damn John, you stole my thunder. Im glad to see you finally agree with me on why the entire american economy is at such a huge disadvantage to other countries. We have a sickness here. We actually CARE about our workers, and people. And the environment. If the world wont play fair, either everyone changes, or we have to change. Or all domestic business's will continue to struggle. And Obama and his health care agenda is literally just throwing fuel on the fire.
Yes, GM died because their union was too strong, their cars too expensive to bulid, and high gas prices ruined them. Plus you dont make your bottom line profitable only at MAXIMUM output. Was this the monster they inherited? Was this the only way to make the past makeup of GM profitable? Was the first economic slowdown and high gas prices simply the ticking time bomb with this company? Outside of BK, could ANY CEO have made it work? Or course not.

Could ANY CEO have made it work? OF COURSE! But not the ones who were
there obviously. Never be able to prove it but the writing was on the wall for years and large dinsosaurs grow extinct.
06-01-2009, 10:16 AM
john

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

That is exactly what i am talking about with regard to forward thinking.
I could show you lots of articles from years ago predicting exactly what has happened. The writing was on the wall. Then of course we probably follow very different sources of information.

Your nuts, the writing was not on the wall, not a sole predicted that speculators that had nothing to do with needing oil would hold so much of the control of it through contracts 10 years ago. As for the articles you saw I saw the same ones talking about supply, the problem with that is that there are plenty of others that went the other way. The problem with the other side is none of those ever figured our own government would block our own exploration of oil in areas it controls, you cant blame them because who would ever think that the government would want to hurt its own people/economy.
06-01-2009, 10:16 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

Sorry lloyd,yoiu only get a half win call because they are calling it BK,IT IS NOT BK,it is a nmerger with Gov't only....still was right with not going to my form of BK which was bondholders and union getting screwed as well as share holders..

You are funny.
THIS WAS ALWAYS THE KIND OF BANKRUPTCY THAT WAS BEING TALKED
ABOUT.
Remember Chrysler? Govt was always talking about a quick bankruptcy but
if you need to feel better about your predictions go right ahead.:p
06-01-2009, 10:17 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

Last time i checked the Japanese and Spanish were Capitalists.
By the way there is more than one form of Capitalism.
I gave you one example with Spanish high speed trains.

and what is the defense and social budgets of these so called Capitalist society's?as a % of GDP?
06-01-2009, 10:20 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

You are funny.
THIS WAS ALWAYS THE KIND OF BANKRUPTCY THAT WAS BEING TALKED
ABOUT.
Remember Chrysler? Govt was always talking about a quick bankruptcy but
if you need to feel better about your predictions go right ahead.:p

Chrysler was a private company,bondholders and unions had no leverage,so you are wrong comparing the so called QUICKNESS of BK.it is not the same..
06-01-2009, 10:22 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

It always amazes me when people compare the USA to a country in Europe the size of 1 state here and have no real armies or capital expenditures like here...
06-01-2009, 10:22 AM
relmor2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

Could ANY CEO have made it work? OF COURSE! But not the ones who were
there obviously. Never be able to prove it but the writing was on the wall for years and large dinsosaurs grow extinct.

No way. It was a ticking time bomb with its expenses. No CEO could have sold the union these concessions. No way. They needed the governments help, and the threat to lose everything. Your wrong. GM died in the 60's and 70's when they decided it would be a good idea to pay people to do nothing, and pay for their health care too. Wait a minute, am I agreeing with you? Yes, the writing was on the wall, but i think for different reasons than you are saying. GM died when we garnered the ability in our medical fields to keep dead people alive an extra 10 to 15 years.
06-01-2009, 10:24 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by john

Your nuts, the writing was not on the wall, not a sole predicted that speculators that had nothing to do with needing oil would hold so much of the control of it through contracts 10 years ago. As for the articles you saw I saw the same ones talking about supply, the problem with that is that there are plenty of others that went the other way. The problem with the other side is none of those ever figured our own government would block our own exploration of oil in areas it controls, you cant blame them because who would ever think that the government would want to hurt its own people/economy.

No! Your nuttier.:D
Sorry, but the writing was on the wall with regard to the auto industry.
I am no rocket scientist and was talking about it years ago and not for the
self serving reasons you stated. I love the fact that you blame the govt for blocking oil exploration. Very funny stuff. The facts show that oil companies had plenty of areas to explore and ACTUALLY chose not to because of economics. Good ole fashion capitalism at work.
it interesting that no where in ANY of your arguments do you EVER acknowledge that a business like GM with all the advantages it had MESSED
UP. Blame it on everyone but the people running the business. That is some
pretty funny crap."IDS
06-01-2009, 10:24 AM
relmor2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

It always amazes me when people compare the USA to a country in Europe the size of 1 state here and have no real armies or capital expenditures like here...

Compare us to China and Russia. Only countries comparable. Germany is a joke. So is the UK.
06-01-2009, 10:26 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

Good Morning everyone,was reading and catching up but had to respond to good arguments as i read...so we are up today a little i see..
06-01-2009, 10:26 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM

and what is the defense and social budgets of these so called Capitalist society's?as a % of GDP?

So i quess your argument is that we couldnt have done anything differently. I
quess if someone other than Bush was in office it all would have gone exactly the same. I quess that means leaders of Govt and business do nothing, effect nothing, mean nothing. Are you an anarchist by any chance?:rolleyes:
06-01-2009, 10:28 AM
lloyd Handwerker

Quote:

Originally Posted by relmor2003

Compare us to China and Russia. Only countries comparable. Germany is a joke. So is the UK.

China is making MAJOR investments in electric car battery technology, high
speed trains, solar, wind etc. We better get going because they are going
to pass us quickly.
06-01-2009, 10:30 AM
JohnnyIrishXM

Historically speaking China just entered the 1950's in terms of economic development compared to the USA and Russia is in the 70's and Japan is in the 90's with Germany and France and England a littler behind us..

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