Impeach Obama Now Thread

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Hey Candleman,
Read this for another point of view about what Obama has or hasnt accomplished. Curious to know what you think. i do agree with some of what you say.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...984460,00.html

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A relatively good article, but boy oh boy, you can tell it's written by an Obama lover.
First off, they were correct in his choices for VP and Cheif of Staff. Two great choices in my opinion. By choosing Biden, and McCain choosing Palin, he guaranteed himself the Presidency.
The other issues are murky at best. Like I said, time will tell. He may prove to be a great success. Not in my book perhaps, but in the overall picture.
Having such a large defecit and not raising taxes worries me to no end. Taxes are not evil. If you spend the money, you have to raise the money. Republican Presidents never understood that. It seems that Obama doesn't get it either.
Thanks for the article.

Yeah, if it wasn't for Sam's Club buying all these candles from me, I'd probably have more time to relax in Europe!

As for the Far Left. I think there is a far left wing of the Democratic Party. I think they are the folks that want to supply free everything to everyone who can't afford stuff. Like healthcare, childcare, school breakfasts, and other things that encourage people to not work as hard as they are capable of. The far left also thinks that everyone on earth has a right to be here. I don't think they do! Illegal imigration is a huge problem. If you are illegal, you should be arrested and sent back to your home country plain and simple. There are too many legal immagrants like my son in law from Ecuador who really worked hard to come here legally and stay here legally. He gets really pissed when he thinks about all the illegals that are here. I'm not saying close the borders, just let's have some control over things. The Far Left doesn't see it that way and they don't support that sort of reform.

I think that in time, more people will chime in on this thread if it isn't percieved as one sided. And if we avoid name calling. Opinions are great to have, and sharing opinions like this is a wonderful excercise in Democracy.

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Originally Posted by Atypical

Good morning Moneybags...I mean Chuck.

Thanks for your candid response but you left out the part about being one of Walmart's biggest suppliers and the property in Europe.

I agree, like Havakasha, with some of what you say.

There must be public financing of elections - spend your money somewhere else. Hey wait, I have an idea...I'll post it soon.

As for this thread; the title "Impeach...has drawn 150 views because of an inflammatory title. Maybe good, maybe dumb. We'll see.

What has to happen is that the lurkers engage which hasn't happened before.

While we wait go buy some more stock.

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Healthcare is not a "left" issue. It's a human right. Think of the social cost connected to our current healthcare situation. The developed world has. That's why we are the only ones not to have a system that removes profit from the process. The healthcare legislation was an industry reorganization not real reform. Single payer is the only real reform and Obama, being the good corporate shill he is, wouldn't fight for it.

I'm not sure how I feel about the illegal situation in toto. But at least know that when these people work, using a ss card (legit or not) they lose the money deducted. The govt get's it por nada.

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Originally Posted by candleman

A relatively good article, but boy oh boy, you can tell it's written by an Obama lover.
First off, they were correct in his choices for VP and Cheif of Staff. Two great choices in my opinion. By choosing Biden, and McCain choosing Palin, he guaranteed himself the Presidency.
The other issues are murky at best. Like I said, time will tell. He may prove to be a great success. Not in my book perhaps, but in the overall picture.
Having such a large defecit and not raising taxes worries me to no end. Taxes are not evil. If you spend the money, you have to raise the money. Republican Presidents never understood that. It seems that Obama doesn't get it either.
Thanks for the article.

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Actually he is not a regular Obama lover. if you followed Mark Halperin you will know that he has been quite critical of him at many junctures.
Follow the the deficit commission because i think they will proposing cuts in programs as well as tax raises. Im not sure where you get the idea that "Obama doesnt get it". Some people claim he hasnt done enough and yet others criticize him for trying to do too much. Which is it?
The Bush tax cut for the top 1% is going to be allowed to expire next year (according to Republicans that is a tax raise. i happen to disagree), but in effect there will be more money in the govt coiffures.

The immigration law is opposed by plenty of people who arent on the left wing. How about Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and even Tom Tancredo (yep thats right the guy who wants to send Obama back to Kenya) said it went to far. So you are being rather simplistic in your analysis of the Arizona bill. No one says illegal immigrants shouldnt be allowed to be here but there are many more fair and legal ways to try to resolve the illegal immigration issue.

I am surprised at you Candleman.
So you are not for single payer or even a public option?
You call out the left for wanting a health care system that the whole world recognizes as a basic right.
Whose values are screwed up?

The commission to review ways to lower the deficit is loaded with those that want to erase social programs - a chronic conservative effort. Obama has put a dangerous process into motion. These people never want to raise taxes because the wealthy are their constituents - and they are them also.

Does the name Pete Peterson ring a bell with anyone?

Lloyd,
I keep reading my post about immigration and I don't see anywhere that I talked about a state law in Arizona. The people of Arizona will fight that law if they so choose.
We have a National problem with immigration. If you are illegal, you still get government benefits, that's just wrong. If you are illegal, you belong in jail, it's just that simple.
I don't care too much about Arizona, I don't live there. I care about America, my home.
Illegals don't pay too many national taxes because employers generally pay illegals under the table. At least that's how it's done around here.

When I say Obama doesn't get it on taxes, this is what I mean. If we are running a deficit, we need to raise taxes to cover that deficit and eliminate it. Obama ran on a pledge to not raise my taxes. That's just plain stupid. He may as well be a Republican. They like to cut taxes and not pay down the deficit. He just doesn't get it!
The tax cut for the top 1% is only part of the problem. Bush cut taxes for everybody. Do you see where that got us. Aren't we just emerging from the worst recession in decades? Tax cuts that cause deficit spending are bad, it doesn't matter who benefits from a tax cut. It it causes the government to borrow money, it's a bad idea.
Obama also cut taxes. That's why I say he just doesn't get it. 100% of all American adults should pay Federal taxes. Not just 53% of us.
The Democrat party was a party of working class stiffs like me at one time. Now, it's not so much that way anymore. The left side of the party has changed the basic philosophy. It used to be that you got what you worked for. Now, you get what you need. That's a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Actually he is not a regular Obama lover. if you followed Mark Halperin you will know that he has been quite critical of him at many junctures.
Follow the the deficit commission because i think they will proposing cuts in programs as well as tax raises. Im not sure where you get the idea that "Obama doesnt get it". Some people claim he hasnt done enough and yet others criticize him for trying to do too much. Which is it?
The Bush tax cut for the top 1% is going to be allowed to expire next year (according to Republicans that is a tax raise. i happen to disagree), but in effect there will be more money in the govt coiffures.

The immigration law is opposed by plenty of people who arent on the left wing. How about Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and even Tom Tancredo (yep thats right the guy who wants to send Obama back to Kenya) said it went to far. So you are being rather simplistic in your analysis of the Arizona bill. No one says illegal immigrants shouldnt be allowed to be here but there are many more fair and legal ways to try to resolve the illegal immigration issue.

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

I am surprised at you Candleman.
So you are not for single payer or even a public option?
You call out the left for wanting a health care system that the whole world recognizes as a basic right.
Whose values are screwed up?

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Lloyd, did we get single payer? NO! Did I say I didn't support single payer? No!

I support the idea of each of us paying our own way. You work hard, you get ahead, you pay taxes for the services that you recieve from our government. That's not radical. That's the way to make it work properly. It will never work well, if I have to go to work 6 days a week to pay for some poor shmucks healthcare. And then that shmuck sits at home and plays video games on the flat screen while smoking Marlboro's and eating chips. It just won't work. Or at least this simple minded guy doesn't see how it can work well that way.

We didn't get health care reform. I don't know and I am not smart enough to know how to fix it. But, I do know that we didn't get it fixed for me. My Blue Cross bill will rise another 5 or 10% this year like it always does.

President Obama seems to be walking down the middle of the road on these major issues. I can't fault him for that. He has to do that if we wants to get elected again. But, it's just not the kind of CHANGE that I thought he was going to bring to us.

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Originally Posted by Atypical

The commission to review ways to lower the deficit is loaded with those that want to erase social programs - a chronic conservative effort. Obama has put a dangerous process into motion. These people never want to raise taxes because the wealthy are their constituents - and they are them also.

Does the name Pete Peterson ring a bell with anyone?

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If we don't want to erase social programs. We have no choice but to raise taxes. It's very simple.
I don't know very many wealthy people, but most of the working class folks that I know don't want taxes raised. You can't just blame this on rich Republicans. For some reason, people just don't want to pay for the services that they want the government to offer. It's not Democrat or Republican, it just greed.

I say raise my taxes 5%, cut 15% of social program budgets and the problem is fixed. Well, end this stupid idea of getting into unwinnable wars and that would help too!:)

"I support the idea of each of us paying our own way. You work hard, you get ahead, you pay taxes for the services that you recieve from our government. That's not radical. That's the way to make it work properly. It will never work well, if I have to go to work 6 days a week to pay for some poor shmucks healthcare. And then that shmuck sits at home and plays video games on the flat screen while smoking Marlboro's and eating chips. It just won't work. Or at least this simple minded guy doesn't see how it can work well that way."

There will always be those that have no personal responsibility, who milk the system. But you don't make policy with them in mind except to create rules and enforcement to prevent those numbers from being large.

Your comment above rules out those problems that occur to all of us unplanned and to good people who ran out of luck.

You don't want to pay for someone that has lost a job without cause; someone that has cancer and no insurance; an old person who lives alone and can't get to the doctor or who can't pay for one; someone that was hurt by a hit and run who hasn't insurance; someone that has insurance but has been ruled "out of coverage support".

Are those the ones that you don't care about?

You're right about greed. People want others to forego benefits but not them. That has occured because of relentless propaganda over the last 35 years blaming everything on "those people".

The Pentagon and military budget waste ALONE could provde whatever is needed for social support. But we don't care about helping people; we care about being "strong and kicking ass". Wars were started on LIES and no one cares. But we always care about someone milking the system for a few dollars.

What a stupid system!

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Originally Posted by candleman

Lloyd,
I keep reading my post about immigration and I don't see anywhere that I talked about a state law in Arizona. The people of Arizona will fight that law if they so choose.
We have a National problem with immigration. If you are illegal, you still get government benefits, that's just wrong. If you are illegal, you belong in jail, it's just that simple.
I don't care too much about Arizona, I don't live there. I care about America, my home.
Illegals don't pay too many national taxes because employers generally pay illegals under the table. At least that's how it's done around here.

When I say Obama doesn't get it on taxes, this is what I mean. If we are running a deficit, we need to raise taxes to cover that deficit and eliminate it. Obama ran on a pledge to not raise my taxes. That's just plain stupid. He may as well be a Republican. They like to cut taxes and not pay down the deficit. He just doesn't get it!
The tax cut for the top 1% is only part of the problem. Bush cut taxes for everybody. Do you see where that got us. Aren't we just emerging from the worst recession in decades? Tax cuts that cause deficit spending are bad, it doesn't matter who benefits from a tax cut. It it causes the government to borrow money, it's a bad idea.
Obama also cut taxes. That's why I say he just doesn't get it. 100% of all American adults should pay Federal taxes. Not just 53% of us.
The Democrat party was a party of working class stiffs like me at one time. Now, it's not so much that way anymore. The left side of the party has changed the basic philosophy. It used to be that you got what you worked for. Now, you get what you need. That's a big difference.

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Sorry if i mischaracterized your stance on immigration. I thought you were referring to the Arizona law in your comments about illegal immigration.
I am not sure you can raise taxes on the middle class at a time like this.
Maybe after the economy becomes more stable, starts growing again normally, and unemployment comes down. I think it would be too counterproductive. Neither do i think we should be cutting taxes anymore, though targeted tax credits and the like are something that can go a long way to helping the squeezed middle class. Rescinding the tax cut for the top !% is a beginning. Reforming our tax code to stop the wealthy and powerful from taking advantage of the tax loopholes would be another step in the right direction. I think given all that Obama encountered on taking office he is doing an alright job. At the very least i see him as a seriously smart man with tremendous work habits who is determined to get things done and change this country for the better. I may not agree with everything he does or doesnt do but i am more than willing to give him another 6 years (:D) to try.
Its a damn hard job and he has a shit load to fix. He has an opposition party that will try to block him at every stage purely for election purposes and the thought of what the alternative would have been with McCain/Palin is enough to keep me jumping for joy forever.

You betcha!

If it was just a few people like the old and infirmed, the retarded, the crippled, the unemployed, it would be fine.

But, in less the news is wrong. Over 40% of American adults don't pay Federal Income Tax. And yet social programs and all Federal programs are paid for with Federal Income Tax. Therefore 40% or more of us are on the dole. That's where the problem lies.

Let's all pay taxes. All of us. All of the old, everyone who has an income. That would be fair. Wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Atypical

"I support the idea of each of us paying our own way. You work hard, you get ahead, you pay taxes for the services that you recieve from our government. That's not radical. That's the way to make it work properly. It will never work well, if I have to go to work 6 days a week to pay for some poor shmucks healthcare. And then that shmuck sits at home and plays video games on the flat screen while smoking Marlboro's and eating chips. It just won't work. Or at least this simple minded guy doesn't see how it can work well that way."

There will always be those that have no personal responsibility, who milk the system. But you don't make policy with them in mind except to create rules and enforcement to prevent those numbers from being large.

Your comment above rules out those problems that occur to all of us unplanned and to good people who ran out of luck.

You don't want to pay for someone that has lost a job without cause; someone that has cancer and no insurance; an old person who lives alone and can't get to the doctor or who can't pay for one; someone that was hurt by a hit and run who hasn't insurance; someone that has insurance but has been ruled "out of coverage support".

Are those the ones that you don't care about?

You're right about greed. People want others to forego benefits but not them. That has occured because of relentless propaganda over the last 35 years blaming everything on "those people".

The Pentagon and military budget waste ALONE could provde whatever is needed for social support. But we don't care about helping people; we care about being "strong and kicking ass". Wars were started on LIES and no one cares. But we always care about someone milking the system for a few dollars.

What a stupid system!

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Wink, ;) ;) ;)

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Originally Posted by candleman

SL, you have started a great thread here. Look how many views it has had. That just goes to show that people on this site do care about these things and truly have an interest in a topic like this.

And I have to add that's it's nice to be able to have this conversation without name calling or degrading each other because of differing opinions. Sometimes these conversations degenerate to schoolyard bullying. And that's the quickest way to end a meaningful sharing of ideas.

Thanks,
Chuck

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And John hasn't even participated!!!!! Imagine the possibilites lol.

I'm starting to sound harsher than I really am! LOL

But, the middle class and the underclass can afford to pay more taxes, or at least I think we can.

If you have a cell phone, you can pay more taxes by getting a cheaper plan, but people don't do that.
If you drink Pepsi, you can pay more taxes by drinking the store brand, but people don't want to do that.

The so called middle class live like kings now compared to the middle class of the 1950's. We all have nicer homes, better cars, more TV's and so on. And yet we claim that a tax increase would be impossible for us to pay.

Lloyd, I can't even imagine what it would have been like to have McCain and Palin in office. His own party and former supporters want him out of office now. And Palin is just a quitter as we all know. I do beleive that we are much better off with the current administration as compared to what would have happened under McCain and Palin.

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Sorry if i mischaracterized your stance on immigration. I thought you were referring to the Arizona law in your comments about illegal immigration.
I am not sure you can raise taxes on the middle class at a time like this.
Maybe after the economy becomes more stable, starts growing again normally, and unemployment comes down. I think it would be too counterproductive. Neither do i think we should be cutting taxes anymore, though targeted tax credits and the like are something that can go a long way to helping the squeezed middle class. Rescinding the tax cut for the top !% is a beginning. Reforming our tax code to stop the wealthy and powerful from taking advantage of the tax loopholes would be another step in the right direction. I think given all that Obama encountered on taking office he is doing an alright job. At the very least i see him as a seriously smart man with tremendous work habits who is determined to get things done and change this country for the better. I may not agree with everything he does or doesnt do but i am more than willing to give him another 6 years (:D) to try.
Its a damn hard job and he has a shit load to fix. He has an opposition party that will try to block him at every stage purely for election purposes and the thought of what the alternative would have been with McCain/Palin is enough to keep me jumping for joy forever.

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Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong

And John hasn't even participated!!!!! Imagine the possibilites lol.

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You ought to be hung for starting this conversation. Now, I know why John calls you a basterd....LOL

Everyone that works pays taxes out of their salary or wage. Income taxes are the amount you pay at the end of the year over and above the regular weekly deductions.
Few get free rides - EXCEPT HEDGE FUND MANAGERS WHOSE INCOME, SOMETIMES OVER A BILLION DOLLARS, IS TAXED AT 15%.

Let's change that!!!

Why does no one ever want to fix/prevent the big injustices, just the one's the average guy is accused of.

Could it be its easier to pick on the little guy?
They dont call it the misdirection play for nothing.

They have everyone convinced that ALL those who made it to the top have gotten there simply because of hard work and fair play, and that they deserve everything they get and MORE. I mean afterall we all want to be like them and expect to achieve what they have one day.
Also everyone convinced that without the wealthy and wall street this country would fall on its knees. Remember trickle down theory?
How about the fact that the tax code is written by and for the powerful and not for the middle class.

Could go on and on but got to get to work and earn my keep. Have a great day.

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Originally Posted by Atypical

Everyone that works pays taxes out of their salary or wage. Income taxes are the amount you pay at the end of the year over and above the regular weekly deductions.
Few get free rides - EXCEPT HEDGE FUND MANAGERS WHOSE INCOME, SOMETIMES OVER A BILLION DOLLARS, IS TAXED AT 15%.

Let's change that!!!

Why does no one ever want to fix/prevent the big injustices, just the one's the average guy is accused of.

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Ralph, you are completely wrong about that.

Let's take a look at some of my employees.

I have a woman that works for me. She gets paid 26K a year for standing behind a cash register and ringing up candle sales. She is very good by the way.
She has one son who is 3 years old.
She pays NO Federal Income tax out of her paycheck. And just yesterday she shared with me that she got a 5200 dollar refund from the IRS. It was a tax credit that Obama gave her for having a job. And the earned income tax credit. And a credit for buying a car this year, and who knows what other credits she got.
She is a wonderful person and she works full time. But, she paid NO Federal Income tax.
Yes she paid Social Security and Medicare tax, but NO income tax.
She is one of the over 40% of us that don't pay Federal Income Tax.
That's one of the problems with the tax system. She isn't paying for what she's taking.