Study Suggest Wind Power Potential is Much Higher than Current Estimates

All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

Here's how it works.

My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!

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Originally Posted by just sirius

So...in your words...The MSM are lazy and uneducated in many issues and afraid of losing ad dollars! If they are uneducated and lazy...get them the F off of my television. they have no business discussing politics! NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC. What about MSNBC getting caught red handed editing video and lying to our faces! The "WHITE GUN TOTING" when it was a African-American. They edited the tape, lied during the broadcast, and lied again saying that the reporter wasn't talking about that guy! BS When you lie, you should lose ad revenue...you should lose your job!

NBC- Immelt in Obamas back pocket!
MSNBC- lying DBags!!!
CBS- Remember Dan the big fat lier Rather
ABC- probably the fairest of the 3 network media giants!
FOX- kicking their asses while at least putting out varying opinions! i admit Hannity/Beck are over the top...Otherwise fairly even...IMHO

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

You never acknowledge all the many billions in subsidies that have gone to the coal, gas and oil industries. Play fair when it comes to helping Alternative energy.
We have never had a truly free market system. Sorry but its the truth.

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Yea dumbass you cant read can you, just sirius posted exactly what each is given in subsidies TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN MEGAWATT HOUR:

"This is taken from the governments 2007 Energy Information Administration
and posted in the San Antonio Express News
"estimated that in fiscal 2007, tax-payer subsidies for wind-generated electricity, including a production tax credit, equaled $23.37 per megawatt hour...compared to .68c for hydroelectric power and $1.59 for nuclear energy".


There you idiot it clearly shows that the amount is far higher for wind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atypical

The MSM has admitted that their job is NOT to expose lies by either side; their job (as they see it) is merely to say "he said. she said". That does not provide useful information and abdicates the responsibility that the media has always practiced. They are lazy and uneducated in many issues and afraid of losing ad dollars.

Bush started a war based on lies to excuse his behavior. Using your logic it would be okay to say, Bush lied, bur all politicians lie so it is equal. BULLSHIT.
There are differences and you know it.

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Then so did the UN, Tony Blair (Englands PM), Clinton (both of them), Russian Inteligence, ect., ect., ect., there was intelligence report after intelligence report that said Iraq did. The only difference was how it would be handled.

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

I understand that you unlike John give some support to alternative energy as an important part of our future. However, you seem to have this deep seated ideological hatred of everything to do with the Govt only as it relates to the alternative energy business. Our Govt has been supporting the gas, coal, and oil industries with billions in subsidies and tax breaks for decades ( which continue today). I dont see your outrage in that case which leaves you open to the charge of being a hypocrite.
The oil companies dont need more billions of dollars of help. They are working today and making record profits. They can drill in multiple places that they choose not to. God how i wish we could set up two parallel universes so we could test our alternative theories. I feel quite confident of the results.

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I will support any idea that can be economical, at this time and in the near to mid future both wind and especially solar are not economically viable. The projections are anywhere from 12 to 40 years away before such sources will be. As an example solar experts will tell you that solar needs to be AT LEAST76% efficient before it becomes a viable source of replacement. It at present is 37% efficient and it has taken the last 20 years for it to go from about 22% to that 37%. Even the experts will say that the higher you get in efficientcy the harder it is to get there. That there is going to have to be a major break through in the field of nano tech among other things for that to happen. Just so we are clear when talking about that kind of nano tech we are talking about it is the same kind that will be able to be used for something like a "space elevator" or being used to search out and destroy only cancer cells in the human body.


Reference: the Science channels "2050", the History channel, "Modern Morvels"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atypical

All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

Here's how it works.

My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!

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This from a man who uses "Media Matters" as a reference and uses ACORN talking points to try and argue with (hey you see how that worked out for you didn't you, FOX reported the truth and you denied it). How many times have you been proven to be wrong following your rules. As the latest example (post #43):

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthre...?t=2620&page=5



Need I say more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/op...4friedman.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

Yea dumbass you cant read can you, just sirius posted exactly what each is given in subsidies TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN MEGAWATT HOUR:

"This is taken from the governments 2007 Energy Information Administration
and posted in the San Antonio Express News
"estimated that in fiscal 2007, tax-payer subsidies for wind-generated electricity, including a production tax credit, equaled $23.37 per megawatt hour...compared to .68c for hydroelectric power and $1.59 for nuclear energy".


There you idiot it clearly shows that the amount is far higher for wind.

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This from the same guy who tried to argue electric batteries in cars only lasted 7 years (they last the life of the cars according to Toyota) and who refused to acknowledge the validity of a comprehensive and neutral study of
hybrid, hybrid plug-ins, electrics and diesels costs in comparison to other cars. Talks a good game but its all based on a bias that is so deep he would never be able to acknowledge he was wrong about ANYTHING.
This from a guy that argues that Barack Obama is unintelligent, can only speak from a teleprompter (did you watch the news shows), and hates white people (his mother and grandparents who raised him are white).
That's a kind of hatred and ignorance that only comes from a deep inability to empathize with others. Sad and Scary. Sorry to have to say it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atypical

All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

Here's how it works.

My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!

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Thanks for that thoughtful analysis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

This from the same guy who tried to argue electric batteries in cars only lasted 7 years (they last the life of the cars according to Toyota) and who refused to acknowledge the validity of a comprehensive and neutral study of
hybrid, hybrid plug-ins, electrics and diesels costs in comparison to other cars. Talks a good game but its all based on a bias that is so deep he would never be able to acknowledge he was wrong about ANYTHING.
This from a guy that argues that Barack Obama is unintelligent, can only speak from a teleprompter (did you watch the news shows), and hates white people (his mother and grandparents who raised him are white).
That's a kind of hatred and ignorance that only comes from a deep inability to empathize with others. Sad and Scary. Sorry to have to say it.

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How's it going Lloyd! Guarenteed...one in the same...Who ever said left wing liberals wern't creative!

Took you guys long enough. Just having a little fun. I loved it when john said something to the effect of Havakasha seeming to have more common sense than Lloyd. LOL>

Lloyd

"Lets wait 10 or 20 years and beyond and see if your kids and grandchildren are complaining."

In 10-20 years...my kids and grandkids will be working their asses off to try and payoff the MASSIVE DEBT that Obama and the Liberals are amassing!

In 10-20 years...your kids and grandkids are going to asking you...how in the HELL did you ever vote for that idiot!

"Ronald Reagan proved that deficits dont matter"

That is a quote by Vice President Cheney one of the most conservative politicians around today. Definitely not a liberal.

What did you say when he made that quote some years ago? What did you say when Bush and the Republican Congress (The Republican party completely controlled the Congress for 6 straight years ) built up massive record deficits?
Is there any hypocrisy in your statements because i truly wonder if you ever called them to task for what they have done to this countries economic stability. i quess the fact that the Republican Party brought the US economy to the brink of COMPLETE COLLAPSE is not something that bothers you does it.

I dont know about you but i believe there is a difference between spending record amounts on Iraq and spending record amounts on trying to dig us out of an economic recession (almost depression) and trying to tackle the serious problems that exist areas like health care, energy, education etc Problems which were neglected for decades by both parties but especially by the do nothing Republican Party.

Read this again and this time instead of trying like John to deny that the guy is a Conservative argue the SUBSTANCE.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...ced-rage/full/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Took you guys long enough. Just having a little fun. I loved it when john said something to the effect of Havakasha seeming to have more common sense than Lloyd. LOL>

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Lloyd do you ever stop lying has it become part of your human nature to do so. I never said "Havakasha seeming to have more common sense than Lloyd". What I said to Havakasha was that, "he seemed to be semi resonable". You do know the difference dont you, never compared the two.

Next, what is sad and I have said it before about others is when someone has to create someone else just so he has someone else that agrees with him. It is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.


I also like how you say it took us long enough. I made the call days ago in a PM to Charles. I said that while I dont as of yet have the facts to prove it, common sense and logic is giving me a 50 to 60 % chance that Lloyd and Havakasha are one in the same (ask Charles). That was 2 days after you started to post under the name "Havakasha".

Chalk another one up to common sense.

I would also like to bring up something else I said in that thread, Lloyd. If you recall I said "I am not that intelligent but I do have more common sense then most and alot of logic skills and I can sniff out more then most before most." If this does not prove that I dont know what else would. You just just elevated me and everything I have been saying about Obama.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

This from the same guy who tried to argue electric batteries in cars only lasted 7 years (they last the life of the cars according to Toyota) and who refused to acknowledge the validity of a comprehensive and neutral study of
hybrid, hybrid plug-ins, electrics and diesels costs in comparison to other cars. Talks a good game but its all based on a bias that is so deep he would never be able to acknowledge he was wrong about ANYTHING.
This from a guy that argues that Barack Obama is unintelligent, can only speak from a teleprompter (did you watch the news shows), and hates white people (his mother and grandparents who raised him are white).
That's a kind of hatred and ignorance that only comes from a deep inability to empathize with others. Sad and Scary. Sorry to have to say it.

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Once again you think the same lib crap will fly (if I keep saying it it will be true) So once again I said the old batteries last 7 years that still holds true. I have also said that the new ones last between 10 and 13 years. I also said that the problem with that is that while the life span has gone up[ so has the cost the old ones cost 5,000 dollars and the new ones cost 10,000 dollars. I said that nothing has changed the cost basis is still the same. Now because you are a dumbass Havakasha (you can change your name Lloyd it still will not change you being a dumbass), I will expain the cost to buy the hybrid gos up by the same amount making it more expensive then before when the old batteries were used there by making the time it takes to recover the cost even longer. It has changed nothing the hybrids are still not ecomonically viable. You bring up the former intelligence director as your proof. I will bring up almost every democrat senator and congressman as mine, they all still dont drive hybrids. Lloyd why dont you try convincing them first. Then come back when at least half of them believe the same bullshit you do and are willing to put their acts behind their words. Until Rangle gets rid of his Cadillac for a hybrid maybe then you can try and convince others to do the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

"Ronald Reagan proved that deficits dont matter"

That is a quote by Vice President Cheney one of the most conservative politicians around today. Definitely not a liberal.

What did you say when he made that quote some years ago? What did you say when Bush and the Republican Congress (The Republican party completely controlled the Congress for 6 straight years ) built up massive record deficits?
Is there any hypocrisy in your statements because i truly wonder if you ever called them to task for what they have done to this countries economic stability. i quess the fact that the Republican Party brought the US economy to the brink of COMPLETE COLLAPSE is not something that bothers you does it.

I dont know about you but i believe there is a difference between spending record amounts on Iraq and spending record amounts on trying to dig us out of an economic recession (almost depression) and trying to tackle the serious problems that exist areas like health care, energy, education etc Problems which were neglected for decades by both parties but especially by the do nothing Republican Party.

Read this again and this time instead of trying like John to deny that the guy is a Conservative argue the SUBSTANCE.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...ced-rage/full/

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Cheney was talking about the percentage of GDP that the difference is now way out of wack to show this. Obama has gone way into new territory when it comes to deficits and the percentage of GDP. Obama is going passed what Reagan did on the percentages of GDP by 3 times. The fact is Bush still did not surpass the percentage of GDP that Reagan did. Obama is going to triple what Reagan did. I think even a moron could figure that out. The reason people are worried as they were with Reagan is Obama has gone way into a new area when talking about deficits spending as to GDP. The amount does not matter it is the percentage of GDP that matters.

The amount spent on the Iraq War is still not more then what the cost of the 911 attacks cost to the ecomomy, not to mention the lost of assets damaged or destroyed and a very very small amount of GDP not record amounts as you say (and no dumbass I am not saying Iraq had anything to do with 911) but that after 911 this country had to do something to change the big picture. One of the Bush doctrines (HO yes I said ONE of because there were many) was to put democracy in the heart of the terrorist Middle East there by changing that whole area. I will explain it because you and your lib buddies are to dumb to get it. When in several years (yes that is because it is the Big picture and it takes time) the Saudies and Iranians (the people of those countries) look over at Iraq and see what they have and how well they are doing then the others start to ask why cant we have what the Iraqies have, why are we being ruled by dictatorships. That is why Bush said the war on terrorism is NOT going to be a short war and will last decades.



I have no doubt if just sirius, is a conservative he said exactly what all conservatives did, That we are feed up with the bullshit, get back to your conservative roots. It is amazing to me that you Havakasha (Lloyd) like to bring up the reason the republicans were voted out. That reason was because they went to far to the left and were giving entitlements out left and right. It is the same reason democrats will be voted out in droves in 2010 and in 2012.


I suppose if I put up what Dick Morris (the Clintons main advisor) says now you would believe everything he says. Is that correct, do I here you right.


Unlike you Lloyd I broke his statements down and showed how false they were. How he also left out some important information in his calculation of GDP numbers. He forgot to mention that they were PROJECTED ESTIMATES of surpluses not actual, He forgets to mention the tech bubble that burst and wiped out all of those surplus projections. He forgets to mention the recession that was handed to Bush By Clinton or what the 911 attacks did to the economy. I do remember how everyone was amazed back then, that even after all that, the ecomomy was still moving along at a good pace. Why do you think that was. You never refuted that. You guys like to forget about things like the tech bubble, the recession, and the 911 attacks. I know you like to think those things never happen but they did.