John vs. lloyd

Once again we have John lying about the poll by NBC/WALL STREET JOURNAL
by calling it an opinion piece of Msnbc.
Once again we have John not acknowledging that i provided the provision that showed that illegal immigrants are not covered by the health care plan.
I will work on the abortion part of this when i have the chance to show the facts.If you notice John has an interesting way of never directly quoting the plan or a single provision in the plan.

John, when you are ready to show an actual statement in the plan you can join the big boys at the table. You can yell fire as much as you want but proof of the actual fire is really whats important.


18 million?:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

John are you crazy you just posted a link to the New York Times. Are you sure you know what your doing? :D

Still wondering where you got that figure of 18 million illegal immigrantts being part of the uninsured. That would be 40%. The Senate Republican policy committee says around 5 million. Just curious thats all. :)

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Lloyd did you see where it was in the paper, unless you read the whole dam thing you would have never known it was there. It was kind of like when they printed the McCain affair on the front page (that turned out to be a total lie) and then printed a retraction in the back pages. It is a great example of what I am talking about, when I say they have a lib bias.


That figure is about the figure (give or take a million) that they where talking about when the immigration reform bill was going through congress. Now I expect many more came across since.


Ether way, once you take out all the people that ether are illegals, people that can get (afford) insurance but dont want to pay for it and the ones that can get it but just dont fill out the paper work (for whatever reason they can get (are qualified for) S-CHIP or Medicare or Medicade but do not have it) and the people that are in a temporary transition from job to job, the end figure is about 5% of the population of US citizens that dont have health insurance or 15 million not the 45 million that the democrats like to quote.

Of the 47 million uninsured ( you quoted 45 million. small difference but you are a little sloppy with the facts so i feel its my duty to correct you. You know like when you say hybrid batteries last 5-7 years when they last 10 but i digress) you say 18 million or 40% are illegal immigrants. Now john just pause for a moment an think about the logic of that statement. Does it make sense?
Now dont reach for the Fox dial just yet. Think about it. And then think about what the REPUBLICAN (yes thats spelled R E P U B L I C A N) Senate policy committee said (about 5 million) and something doesnt quite seem to add up.
Do a little research for us folks and find that figure you remember and lets see who it is that said it. Could it be a right wing think tank, or a talk radio personality or someone like that. I am not saying you didnt remember it from some source but i want you to show it to me and think about it in alll its logical manifestations. Just love to see how your brain works.

Still waiting (one day and counting) for John to own up to the fact that it
was a NBC?WALL STREET JOURNAL POLL i quoted from.

What's a nice guy like me going to do? Sigh. I am going to sit back and wait.
Time is on my side. John will grow old and never admit a thing. Proof that a Fox junkie is a hopeless cause.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker

Of the 47 million uninsured ( you quoted 45 million. small difference but you are a little sloppy with the facts so i feel its my duty to correct you. You know like when you say hybrid batteries last 5-7 years when they last 10 but i digress) you say 18 million or 40% are illegal immigrants. Now john just pause for a moment an think about the logic of that statement. Does it make sense?
Now dont reach for the Fox dial just yet. Think about it. And then think about what the REPUBLICAN (yes thats spelled R E P U B L I C A N) Senate policy committee said (about 5 million) and something doesnt quite seem to add up.
Do a little research for us folks and find that figure you remember and lets see who it is that said it. Could it be a right wing think tank, or a talk radio personality or someone like that. I am not saying you didnt remember it from some source but i want you to show it to me and think about it in alll its logical manifestations. Just love to see how your brain works.

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As to the batteries issue, I have said that those where the old ones and that cost was also alot less. Once again the new ones are longer lasting but the cost also is twice as much. What is the difference between the new and the old, thats right nothing the cost basis is the same.


Also if you are going to start to get on me about typeos and putting a "b" in the place of a "p". Then I feel the need to remind you of all your typos not to mention the name you got wrong on the other thread you qouted or the fact that your lib site misspelled abortion (thats right its A B O R T I O N). Then again we could do this back and forth over a issue I could care less about. I use ante when I talked to friends but I dont use a nonword like that when I was talking to people I was going to build a house for. Do you get the point yet.

Now as for illegal immigrants.



As the 109th Congress debates immigration control (i.e., border security and interior
enforcement) and legal reform (i.e., temporary and permanent admissions), concerns
arise over the capacity of the Department of Homeland Security to identify and remove
temporary aliens who fail to depart when their visas expire. It is estimated that each year
hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals overstay their nonimmigrant visas or enter
the country illegally (with fraudulent documents or bypassing immigration inspections).1
The most recent published estimate based upon the March Supplement of the Current
Population Survey (CPS) is that 11.1 million unauthorized aliens were residing in the
United States in 2005.2 Reliable estimates of the number of nonimmigrant overstays are
not available, and sample estimates range from 31% to 57% of the unauthorized
population (depending on methodology). This report will be updated.



http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2006,0530-crs.pdf



I will admit that it looks like my number is off but you will have to admit that so is yours.

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2498

I didn't give my own particular number. i just quoted from Republican policy committee and Richard wolf and said obviously there are different opinions about the number.I dont have a horse in this game. Never said it was a certain # just said yours seemed to high a percentage and not logical.

When did i call attention to your typos?
I have called attention to the fact that you called the NBC POLL/WALL STREET JOURNAL POLL a msnbc opinion piece. Dont think that was quite honest. If you dont want to believe the poll fine but at least call it what it is. I shouldnt have to chase you around this site to get you to own up to that.:)

As far as the batteries are concerned you initially talked about todays batteries lasting 5-7 years. There was no distinquishing betwween old or new. i corrected you . move on. Of course the cost of the batteries has gone up for the lithiums. But what i tried to point out to you is that its not causing the cost of the cars at the dealers to go up in price and that Toyota sells the Prius and says the battery will last the "life of the car". I showed you how they have tested some of these batteries to 180,000 miles. So the point is that you most likely want have to buy another battery when you buy a hybrid. Therefore there are not the extra costs that you think there are.
I cant do anymore than present you with the intellichoice study. If you dont wont to believe it fine. I will come back year after year with more studies that i believe will prove what i have said all along. You are stuck on this idea that it will take 20 years for hybrids to be economical and technically feasible. I really think you are blinded by your beliefs and not the facts.
I think we know we disagree about a whole lot of things. :D

Isnt this fun?

Its not in the bill. I showed you the provision. John seems to be stuck on some statement that Obama made and is willing to ignore the fact that Obama said that Illegal immigrants wont be included in the new health care plan but MORE IMPORTANTLY THAT I SHOWED HIM THE EXACT PROVISION THAT EXCLUDES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and yet good ole john boy wants to fixate on one statement from Obama. LOOK AT THE BILL. ISNT THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT?
I quess not. Sigh. LOL. This is getting really funny. I want Peter Sellers to play my part in this charade.

Once again I ripped his poll apart and showed how what people that watch FOX are more informed then the people giving the survey. Once agian you need to have just a little common sense to figure out that what the people that say this are correct about what will happen if the House bill gets passed. One only has to look at all the things that are being changed and taken out of the house bill to see that. I mean holy crap the part about having end of life councelling is taken out and now they are saying the government public option is going to be also. I bet before they are done that abortion will be specifically be mentioned as to that they will not be covered before it is all said and done. People that watch FOX are not as dumb as the rest they know what the bill says and what it doesn't say (and what it doesn't say means).


Once again here is the commonsense of the bill and how I ripped lloyds poll apart again.

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2498



P.S. I love it, Obama used to say that "you WILL be able to keep your own insurance if you want to". Now that has changed to "you will MORE THEN LIKELY be able to keep it".

See lloyd people who watch FOX know this kind of crap before most others. Obama must have just read the house bill and found out that he was lying before.


Kind of like it going from "man made global warming" to "Man made global climate change". People with commonsense know exactly why they are tring to change it now.