This is from the main stream media. Very true report, quick refreshing.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews

All this crap witch hunting over 165 million dollars in bonuses. To begin with, the automakers were bailed out. Should the auto workers not be paid?

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The ones who had direct hands in guiding the company toward stupid contracts with the UAW and others, no, they should not be paid. Their work actually helped bring down the company.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews

The bonuses were for individual acheivements such as being a million dollar producer and such.

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If you produced a million dollars, yet what you did also resulted (directly or indirectly) in the company losing billions of dollars…should you get a bonus?
What exactly for?
Where I work, I only get a bonus based on how we (the company) actually do overall, as in profit-and-loss. No profit, no bonus.
It really is that simple.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews

When they said AIG was too big to fail, few realize how true this is. If you think a run on banks was bad, imagine a run on insurance companies. Mst investments are held in insurance policies. A failure of AIG would create a run on companies like MetLife, NY Life, The Hartford. Annuities would be wiped out as there is not enough money in circulation to pay off every existing policy holder. The market would be wiped out. The economies of the world would collapse. The dollar would be worth an Ethiopian sand grain.

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No argument here. AIG is/was too big, and never should have risen to that level to begin with. Hindsight is a razor-sharp 20/20.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews

These idiot politicians need to let this AIG thing go. For all our sakes.

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Not so fast. This issue is more than about bonuses. It is about businesses being run in a proper, ethical fashion.
Rampant greed is neither proper, nor ethical.

A bonus for helping the company (AIG) declare record losses is absolutely absurd. Name one other company that rewards employees for helping the company lose billions of dollars and fail.

You can't.

And that's the crux of the matter, here. Somewhere along the journey we convinced ourselves that we deserved rewards without any risk at all. AIG employees actually had contracts written specifying bonuses regardless of the profit/loss of the company.

Where's the risk in that? There is none.

And, as you and I know, the real world is full of risk. AIG is not the real world, and therefore cannot be defended.

IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews

Here's why the dollar may crash, imho.

All this crap witch hunting over 165 million dollars in bonuses. To begin with, the automakers were bailed out. Should the auto workers not be paid? The bonuses were for individual acheivements such as being a million dollar producer and such.

When they said AIG was too big to fail, few realize how true this is. If you think a run on banks was bad, imagine a run on insurance companies. Mst investments are held in insurance policies. A failure of AIG would create a run on companies like MetLife, NY Life, The Hartford. Annuities would be wiped out as there is not enough money in circulation to pay off every existing policy holder. The market would be wiped out. The economies of the world would collapse. The dollar would be worth an Ethiopian sand grain.

These idiot politicians need to let this AIG thing go. For all our sakes.

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Bailouts are factors here. AIG bailout is not on the FEDs balance sheet. Bear Sterns is however, and TARP 1. They are adding up their asset side of their balance sheet full of debt that might one day prove worthless.
Since the FED has to sell assets to pull money out of the supply, and their assets are now full of bad debt, it becomes harder and harder for them to get anywhere near the value they paid for them. Its easy to buy assets, thats easy. But very hard to remove money from the supply. FED sells assets to pull money, and buys assets to add. Assets they are buying is government debt. What are those worth? Exactly. And what are they buying them with? Funny money, they just printed. Not a good game to play.
You just print money, and increase their balance sheet. Slippery path, that is not easily reversed. Do you think any time in the near future the FED will be looking to DECREASE the money supply? I dont think so. In fact, the trillion dollar infusion might be the first of 1 to 2 more before its all said and done. Gold will do very well. As will ALL dollar based asset classes(stocks, commodities, etc...). Just not cash.

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

Bailouts are factors here. AIG bailout is not on the FEDs balance sheet. Bear Sterns is however, and TARP 1. They are adding up their asset side of their balance sheet full of debt that might one day prove worthless.
Since the FED has to sell assets to pull money out of the supply, and their assets are now full of bad debt, it becomes harder and harder for them to get anywhere near the value they paid for them. Its easy to buy assets, thats easy. But very hard to remove money from the supply. FED sells assets to pull money, and buys assets to add. Assets they are buying is government debt. What are those worth? Exactly. And what are they buying them with? Funny money, they just printed. Not a good game to play.
You just print money, and increase their balance sheet. Slippery path, that is not easily reversed. Do you think any time in the near future the FED will be looking to DECREASE the money supply? I dont think so. In fact, the trillion dollar infusion might be the first of 1 to 2 more before its all said and done. Gold will do very well. As will ALL dollar based asset classes(stocks, commodities, etc...). Just not cash.

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Bumbo (named because of his ears and first name) I am sorry to say is a socialist....expect more from the idiot! Gold, even though it has dropped is the safest investment. Sad to say...He hates the free market.

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"""If you produced a million dollars, yet what you did also resulted (directly or indirectly) in the company losing billions of dollars…should you get a bonus?
What exactly for?
Where I work, I only get a bonus based on how we (the company) actually do overall, as in profit-and-loss. No profit, no bonus.
It really is that simple. """

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You obviously have no idea how the world works, specific to sales.

Go to your local real estate office. They earn commissions on homes they sell. You will see that some are designated million dollar producers and such. That million dollar producer deserves earned that bonus. The 22 other people in the office who did not PRODUCE get no bonus. It's part of a salary package.

This same production pay scale is used in nearly every sales dept in just about every business. Why should that million dollar producer who works 16 hours a day and hustles his arse off to reach that level be paid the same salary as the 22 people who came in late everyday, did little to no work when they did come in and did not generate enough business to even support their own salaries.

It is the bonuses that drive sales. Even your local dealer employs such tactics. More is paid to salespeople who sell cars above 25, 50 or 100 cars per month. Should the car salesman who sells 500 cars in a month be paid the same as the guy who sells 2?

As a stockbroker, I maintained a book of business. I ran my own business within the company and THAT is how it works. I remember specifically winning a trip to Puerto Rico. In order to go you needed to make it into the top 10% of sales for that quarter.

In the case of AIG, we have a trillion dollar company who paid out less than 200 million in compensation bonuses to people who worked their asses off. Keeping AIG in the news everyday and causing this turbulence will only succeed in bankrupting that company. When they go bk, so goes the world.

The issue isn't really about compensation structure of sales associates, it really isn't. That type of structure has been around forever and will continue to be.

The issue with AIG is that they sold their soul when they took the bailout and whether you like it or not, there are some new rules to play by now.

It reeks of bad taste to pay out bonuses after you take a handout, in addition, I believe I read that these "contracts were in place a month before the rules came down about bonuses". If that is true, I would question whether or not they knew the rules were coming and tried to get in under the wire.

I think it is a similar reaction to hearing about someone on welfare and food stamps driving a brand new car on our dime. It is not the same situation obviously, but it is the same type of reaction.

"Go to your local real estate office. They earn commissions on homes they sell. You will see that some are designated million dollar producers and such. That million dollar producer deserves earned that bonus. The 22 other people in the office who did not PRODUCE get no bonus. It's part of a salary package."

Then don't call what the AIG people got a Bonus. Call it what it is: A Commission on Sales. Don't call it a "Retention Bonus" like no one else could do the job. If it's part of there salary package then represent it accurately... Confusion in the system is what has drained Investor Confidence out of it.... Do what you say and call it what it is... That shouldn't be too hard to follow as a way of doing business...

All people know is what they hear: $160M in Bonus being paid to the same division of AIG that was involved in getting us in to this mess.... This is not a debate about paying people what they earn... Its about putting one hand out for the government to bail you out and then giving to the guys and gals that got you into this mess as a Bonus..

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Originally Posted by GoHerdGreg

The ones who had direct hands in guiding the company toward stupid contracts with the UAW and others, no, they should not be paid. Their work actually helped bring down the company.



If you produced a million dollars, yet what you did also resulted (directly or indirectly) in the company losing billions of dollars…should you get a bonus?
What exactly for?
Where I work, I only get a bonus based on how we (the company) actually do overall, as in profit-and-loss. No profit, no bonus.
It really is that simple.



No argument here. AIG is/was too big, and never should have risen to that level to begin with. Hindsight is a razor-sharp 20/20.



Not so fast. This issue is more than about bonuses. It is about businesses being run in a proper, ethical fashion.
Rampant greed is neither proper, nor ethical.

A bonus for helping the company (AIG) declare record losses is absolutely absurd. Name one other company that rewards employees for helping the company lose billions of dollars and fail.

You can't.

And that's the crux of the matter, here. Somewhere along the journey we convinced ourselves that we deserved rewards without any risk at all. AIG employees actually had contracts written specifying bonuses regardless of the profit/loss of the company.

Where's the risk in that? There is none.

And, as you and I know, the real world is full of risk. AIG is not the real world, and therefore cannot be defended.

IMHO.

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WHAT???? AIG is not the real world?? My friend, you need to go back and do some research. Hit the books. The insurance industry is by far the LARGEST financial industry in the world. Think about about it. What facet of your life is NOT insured?? And American International Group is one of the worlds largest insurance firms. How's that for the real world??? Bonuses??? Give me a break. That's business. AIG is not alone in contributing to this financial predicament. EVERYONE is..and yes including your very government who is now standing so tall and smug just because they can print money and write funny checks. Here's the deal. Reform is fine and perp walks are fine. But what the gov is doing right now is creating a lynch mob mentality. Look at just this morning, you have angry mobs going to AIG officers houses. What's next?? Bonuses as incentive are the life blood of free-market entrepeneurial capitalism. We have a problem right now that needs to be fixed. Bitch-slapping Wall Street and Insurance officers about their bonuses is not the answer RIGHT NOW. Bad timing. I just read an AP article this morning where they outline the potential ramifications of the about-to-be announced public-private program of buying up toxic assets...Gov now wants Hedgies, et al big money to take on the buying risk with the gov's "full faith and credit" backing. But how will private money want to even do that fearing the gov will then restrict their other day-to-day income, bonuses, et al. It's stupid!!!! We need to generate confidence right now for people to take risk. This bonus crap is delaying our recovery. So what if a few people get bonuses right now who might be directly implicated in our current problem...why can't you go back at the proper time and take those individuals to task and throw them, their holdings and yes, their frigging bonuses in front of a grand jury. But when the time is right and when we have our feet back underneath us and private money is back doing what we want it AND NEED IT to be doing...without the threat the the gov is going to tax 90% of what they make. This is shooting ourselves in the proverbial foot my friend. My suggestion to you is get off the moral high horse and look at focus on what needs to happen NOW..and the best way to foster and encourage it..now, not 6 months from now.

s162, nice post and I agree entirely.... the Diversion of focus to Bonus payments is being pushed by Congress to take the spot light of them for allowing money to be released to quickly into the hands of institutions with out these contract concessions where appropriate....

Notice I said where appropriate because incentive based pay programs are essential to motivating productivity in many areas of business. It is the company's responsibility to align these programs with overall company goals, not congress' or even the banks that might loan a business money. Congressmen and Senators who took money from all of the now Government Funded (bailed out) businesses to get reelected are not rushing to return those funds to these imperiled, publicly supported companies now... are they? Using tax code to seize assets is a slippery slope and one that I believe will prove to be unconstitutional especially when targeted at a specific group rather than the population in general.

You are correct about the blame game and hate mongering by politicians, and journalists for that matter, needing to end. We need strong recovery priorities to be brought back as the topic of the day or else a serious stall in the recovery will occur due to failed momentum and confidence by the private sector into the government's true agenda.

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Originally Posted by cos1000

s162, nice post and I agree entirely.... the Diversion of focus to Bonus payments is being pushed by Congress to take the spot light of them for allowing money to be released to quickly into the hands of institutions with out these contract concessions where appropriate....

Notice I said where appropriate because incentive based pay programs are essential to motivating productivity in many areas of business. It is the company's responsibility to align these programs with overall company goals, not congress' or even the banks that might loan a business money. Congressmen and Senators who took money from all of the now Government Funded (bailed out) businesses to get reelected are not rushing to return those funds to these imperiled, publicly supported companies now... are they? Using tax code to seize assets is a slippery slope and one that I believe will prove to be unconstitutional especially when targeted at a specific group rather than the population in general.

You are correct about the blame game and hate mongering by politicians, and journalists for that matter, needing to end. We need strong recovery priorities to be brought back as the topic of the day or else a serious stall in the recovery will occur due to failed momentum and confidence by the private sector into the government's true agenda.

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cos1000...

It's just stupid where our attention is going right now. Great example about real estate (and your other points). I mean, we can't just stop the free market system because we're also trying to fix this problem. The Gov was just as complicit in this mess as anyone. Bill Clinton allowed the newly developed CDS concept (developed by 2 clowns at JPM no less, who now is considering banking royalty!) into a huge bill of pork in 1996, the beginning of his second term. Prior to this, the CDS bill alone couldn't pass congress. Billy probably didn't even know it was in there. Then add what gov did with GSE's.."everyone should have a house mantra"... also Billy's. Yet, now they are overstepping their bounds for political expediency in my opinion (and as you say). There are elections next year and this new "CAUSE" will play very nicely on Broadstreet when all these pukes start stumping. They're creating a monster and riling up the people instead of helping the people through the proper approach and programs. So far Obama Admin. has done nothing but f around and delay our recovery since he got in. When he got in, he turned into Mr. Hyde or at least Bat Masterson. Started bitch-slapping Wall Street. Wall Street naturaly sold off in retalliation--and we lost out. Then old Barack finally figured out he was hurting the exact people he was puporting to help. Us. So more wealth destruction for us. Now he's going on the Tonight Show. You've got to be kidding me. Meanwhile Obama AND congress won't let up on this bonus focus. Restricting salaries, bonuses, et al for anyone who took TARP money. That is just sick and is causing big money just to trench in further. Meanwhile We the Peons just keep spinning our wheels watching our friends get layed off , et al...We are soooo expendable! To quote Clown Cramer.."Obama knows nothing!" I'm just glad his kids got a kickass new swingset/playhouse, they're all settled in their new private school and will be getting their new dog soon. Oh and the President got to bowl a 129 in the White house bowling alley..all great news!!!!! Meanwhile we get to look forward to hopefully holding 666 in the coming weeks or else we'll be taken out back yet another time...yeah, I'm really happy for the president. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by relmor2003

Sorry, I meant quite refreshing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef5OmZkzjDI
Dont jump on me, as this IS SiriusXM related. A dollar crash would affect all stock prices.

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relmor, I know you said this was from the main stream media, but just for kicks: who is RT and this announcer is reporting from the RT Studios in MOSCOW. I don't know how Mainstream that is.....