What's so funny? How do I amuse you?Quote:
Originally Posted by john
(Goodfellas)
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What's so funny? How do I amuse you?Quote:
Originally Posted by john
(Goodfellas)
Relmer - I read through your research, but I don't recall seeing anything that indicated Ergen had plans to BUY OUT shareholders. I have yet to see anything that hints to this. How are you arriving at this conclusion?Quote:
Originally Posted by relmor2003
Hi, I know there are people who think Mel is doing the best he can. I am not now nor have I ever been a member of that camp. I am pretty sure I could have done a better job (I would have hired a chimp to advise me)
Sirius would not have the debt it now has. Sirius might or might not have XM and all that entails. (Depends on whether or not Malone jumped in to "save" XM before they went BK.
One thing I am certain the SP would not be .13 It would be lower then day Mel took over because well the market in general collapsed.
I am a fiscal conservative. I believe in no debt, low as possible share float. Low as possible operating expense.
Mel dumped everything onto share holders and unfathomably many of them still worship him.
relmar, I disagree, first of all SIRI was not in any great shape itself. Now while XMSR may have had to file first and that is questionable considering most of the Feb debt was its and if you look at the COH for just SIRI they did not have enough to cover it.
asm610, I saw that to, that was a good movie.
Hi, The merger cost SiriusXM 5 BILLION!!!! in goodwill. (hint: Thats where your SP went)
Relmore,
one minute you say you think Harleib works for a hedge fund and you end your excellent expose saying you will join him?????
when i first heard of him i actually googled him and researched if the guy was for real. accorking to the newspapers he is who he says he is...real estate developer...( maybe he is really spiderman after hours, i don't know ) what i find interesting is that i like you have done "due" ...spent the time on Deep Capture... apparently believe it is at least feasable if not reality and yet you discount hartleib when he talks about conspiracy..that is exactly what Byrne is talkin about. that is what you are talking aboout.
don't read any negative tone of this post. i appreciate all you do here and previously at "the other place'. I have learned alot from your input. i just wonder where you are comming from on this one.
koop
Relmar.
My scenario goes like this:
Ergen acquired the debt, therefore he must have been shorting the stock.
In leaking this info to the WSJ, he created a situation in which the BK rumblings drove the price of the common to its nickel low. This protected his ability to cover as we have seen from the recent short report at a nice profit. He also bought the debt on the cheap and profited from that as well. He must have known all to well that Sirius was cutting a deal with Malone.
I believe you have outed the main manipulator in all of this. I would bet the farm that the reason Mel turned his deal down was because of his hostile takeover attempt. He tried to blackmail the company and Mel defended it.
http://www.knighttradingfraudinfocenter.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koop
koop, as you said that Deep Capture is a worse case. I suggest you look up homers clif notes on that subject along with the auther of it.
Dont get me wrong here I have not change my mind I still think the deal sucked. While it is, as you just said a worse case it is also possible in the end if SIRIXM cant pull through. This deal gives Malone everything reguardless of what happens as far as making a shit load of money. That is one reason the MSM was saying it is the deal of the century for him and not SIRIXM.
Knight Trading Fraud Information
Knight Trading Group Fraud InfoCenter
Editor’s Note: A glossary is included at the end of this page for terms with an asterisk.
Knight Trading Group, a leading market maker* and asset management firm, is one of Nasdaq’s* biggest players. It is parent company to Knight Securities L.P. The largest comprehensive market maker in the Nasdaq and OTC* (over-the-counter) securities, Knight Securities L.P. is a major participant in those markets.
Why is Knight accused of fraud?
Knight Trading Group has been accused of fraud by the National Association of Securities Dealers (NASD) and is being investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) for additional fraud charges. Thus far, Knight has denied the allegations against it.
In January 2002, the NASD fined Knight Securities L.P. for violating securities and market law. Knight was accused of neglecting to make accurate reports to the NASD. The NASD claimed that Knight did not adhere to posted quotes. It also accused the firm of violating certain rules pertaining to locked and crossed markets. (A locked market occurs when the ask and bid price for a stock are identical, and a crossed market occurs when the bid price is higher than the ask price. Both situations occur more frequently on the Nasdaq than on other markets.) The NASD claims that Knight committed a number of such violations between 1997 and 2001. Knight was fined $700,000.
In addition, the NASD required Knight to pay $800,000 back to clients who lost money on its OnSale, Inc. stock. The regulatory body cited improper execution of nearly 650 orders as the reason for the fine. Knight paid without admitting liability.
In June of 2002, more charges against Knight arose—this time perpetrated by a former employee, Robert Stellato. When he was head of Knight’s institutional trading, Stellato claims to have witnessed multiple violations of NASD and SEC rules. Among his accusations are allegations of front running stocks, a policy in which traders perform their own transactions ahead of their customers’ orders. Front running usually results in a lower price for the trader and a higher price for the customer. Stellato claims that Knight traders engaged in front running with the knowledge of Knight’s CEO, other executives, and the company’s attorney. Knight has denied the allegations.
Also in June 2002, Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. and one of its shareholders filed a lawsuit against Knight, accusing it of front running and stock manipulation. They argue that Knight used illegal practices to keep Applied Digital’s stock prices down, thereby hurting the company and its investors.
What is the current status?
Knight has already paid the fines levied by the NASD for its alleged violations relating to improper reports, mishandling of locked and crossed markets, and the improper handling of OnSale, Inc. orders. The firm paid $700,000 to the NASD and $800,000 to OnSale, Inc. investors.
The SEC is investigating the accusations made by Stellato. A class action lawsuit has been filed on behalf of investors who claim they were harmed by Knight’s alleged front running.
Finally, Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. has also filed a suit on behalf of itself and one of its shareholders, accusing Knight of manipulating its stock price.
How can you acquire the company without buying out shareholders? He wouldnt be issued shares as Mel said no. So you go to the stockholders and ask them to sell to you. If Mel wasnt going to allow a convert debt for equity swap, what choice does that leave Ergen, who wants control of the company, as he STATED HIMSELF. Go ahead and explain that one. He obviously made an offer to Mel. Mel said no. He has no intentions of selling to Ergen. So minimum Mel was working with Malone since December. Ergen confirmed this story. Therefore Mel is responsible for lying again, and cirumventing a legal vote by faking a bk situation, with Malones help(part of the deal). I ammened my statement about Mr> Harleib, go back and look. I like the edit feature. If hes legit, which I said I didnt think he was. Mel has 2 quarters. Thats more than enough time. Im being generous, considering the money he has stolen from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by winagain35
My contentions about Mel are very consistiant. Ive stated since July hes been working with the shorts to take down the sp. They needed Mels cooperation to make it possible. Going on Cramer is one small piece of confimation. He validated Cramers arguments by appearing on the show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews
....so you have Ergen playing Gordon Geco. Guess he had to make up for some issues his companies have with thier long term prospects.......
rel...
Just saw your post then i have to head out..
IMO, Mel and Howard came to SIRI and together jacked to price up to $9 briefly. In 04, when Mel showed up, he did the GS Feb '09 Notes deal..which as a bond deal came with a hedge of it's own. Looking at the SP, we see a steady decline of the SP in consecutive years 'til LBO last year. SP held up around 4ish halfway through but never bounced back so clearly the manipulation was on right then to what degree GS could impose their will. So to me, that's ground zero in a way and we know those types of WS IB deals are not only common but very legal. So one could right there back in that day, impose a due diligence on every investor at that time to know about and understand the meaning of that hedge (and its potentialities). All this info would be clearly stated in the prospecti of that time (though I have not pulled that one out ever). I was in SIRI all of 2003 and some of 2004, then I got out for a few years. So I cannot consider myself an authority in real-time, only what I deduce from the historical perspective. So then you fast forward to the ugly deal. How would you be able to prove Mel didn't shop his deal for other financing and was shut out. We know credit markets started to freeze up about April. By July, they were all but gone. So he once again plays his only card left..the LBO using MS and UBS bonds, engaging once again yet another hedge. Again, perfectly legal but lethal to holders of the common. Which we know too well LOL. His LT value IMO, has yet to play out. No CEO would presume to espouse guaranteed shareholder value in 6 months time or necessarily even a year. In court you would have to prove his/their definition of sharehlder value of what time period? If they can prove a timeframe of like 2 -5 years. The suit wil be laughed out of the room IMHO. Hartlieb had no chance at this stage of the game. He only actually hurt us with the news which MSM spun against us. Esp as we also know all these CEOs and BOD's have the smokescreen of the market meltdown to hide behind (so to speak). I see little way any suit of this kind could permeate all of these circumstances that are in the favor to the companies. Now having said all that, you know I agree with you and your research. I just say there is little to do about it but what we are doing. Staying on the battle field and regaining some of our hill the old-fashioned way. I think we can do it.. JMHO..
bbl
It's only the deal of the century if the satellites are in use....for RADIO! Otherwise they are nothing more than giant costly paperweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Matthews
Brandon, the problem I find in that is there were no shares available to short that was the reason for the dilution vote. Mel also had control over those shares that came as a result of the vote. Not to mention when those converts that took the deal right after the merger were supposed to return them to SIRI after they converted. Hense the reason the deal right after the merger was not real dilution. (that is what homer, Newman and I were talking about)
Can I get a witness?
Anyone watching level 2....pay attention when the clock reaches 2:59. Watch how many 100 share trades take place.
Echostar buys sirius debt.
SP takes off. And holds.
Meaning.....
Beneficial to stockholders.
Article now since DELETED. Cant find it. No WSJ said, its A BAD DEAL THAT MEANS. Then they started explaining to us idiots why we should be selling the stock, not buying it on this news. He will force it into bk, to acquire assets on the cheap.
Then they claim Mel was using BK as leverage against Ergen. Do I really need to backtrack again with all this? OMG
You people amaze me sometimes. The surge on the SP was the CORRECT call. It would be good for stockholders. Then Malone deal much latter with BK scare for days was the BAD DEAL. Mel needed time to erase the good deal and make it a bad deal. Who are the players? Who knows. THE WHOLE POINT IS YOU GOT SCREWED. What was the Egen deal? why did the media lie to us? Why did Mel fake a bk scare? These are all answers as stockholders you are entited to. please STOP DEFENDING YOUR CROOK CEO. Thats enough. You have no legs to stand on here. Hes been talking with Malone since DEc. Therefore he LIED TO YOU AGAIN. How many times does he have to lie to you before you stop allowing it. Show me the money Mel, or shut up, and move on, and let someone else run the company. Go to jail for all I care. Stop jerking me around, and start revealing your goals, plans, and strategies to give me my money back. Thats all I care about. Period. What was the Ergen deal? Why are you hiding this? There will be NO NEW DEAL. The Malone deal is it. Thats it. You lost 40% of your company without even a wimper.
this might be the slowest day I have ever seen. I think my previous low was around 14 million.
Brandon..
Good rip of info on NITE...I still think they are generally untouchable except via fines, which are chump change to their top line..
btw..for those who might not know..Knight is a NASD Market Maker under the symbol NITE. They have for some time been one of the most evil and vicious MM's on the block...
[QUOTE=mogami;16223]Hi, I know there are people who think Mel is doing the best he can. I am not now nor have I ever been a member of that camp. I am pretty sure I could have done a better job (I would have hired a chimp to advise me)
Sirius would not have the debt it now has. Sirius might or might not have XM and all that entails. (Depends on whether or not Malone jumped in to "save" XM before they went BK.
Yo, Hello Mogami et al. Nice to be here with you, thanks for the breadcrumbs everyone. Mogami, I bet if Mel didn't Consume XM, then Malone or possibly Ergen would not have saved them, except for themselves -- then the competition would remain (except Malone would be the competitor). I think it was a good thing for Mel to do what he did -- although I'm not in his camp cuz so far it appears he and his deals are tooooo ugly!!! Yo
The shares loaned out to for short hedging positions was for the 2014 convertible bonds - the "ugly financing" after the mergers was consummated. The reason the shares had to be loaned at the time was because SIRI was on the Regsho list. It hasn't been on the list for many months now.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Ergen bought up the Feb 09 and Dec 09 converts - if we assume he started buying them up in November he could easily have shorted the common.