Pandora Passes Sirius XM On iTunes
Whether Sirius XM investors like it or not, iTunes has become a sort of measuring stick of what is hot and what is not. If you can make it on iTunes, you have your hands onto something. For years, Sirius and XM fans have seen a partnership with Apple as the holy grail of determining the success of the company. A partnership never came to fruition, but Sirius XM did finally release an app that is available through iTunes.
Early success of the Sirius XM app vaulted it to the number one music download on iTunes. Within a couple of weeks, the app surpassed 1 million downloads. Now, a week later and much to the chagrin of investors, the Sirius XM app has fallen below Pandora. At this point Pandora enjoys the #12 position and Sirius XM sits at #15.
What this proves is that the competition on Internet radio will be strong. It also proves that Sirius XM, even with strong brand recognition, needs to do as much as they can to remain on top. To do that they need to find a way to compete with the high points that attract people to services such as Pandora. Pandora sports customized channels, something that Sirius XM should consider. Pandora is virtually free because of advertised support. This is something that Sirius XM can not compete with. Thus, Sirius XM needs to focus on exclusive content as they work towards improving the Internet service to offer more capabilities that are appealing in services like Pandora.
Launching the app without Howard Stern was a mistake, as he and his channels are a big driver for satellite radio. Until the Stern mess is cleared up, Sirius XM needs to point out that the other exclusive content available on their Internet service is worth the price of the subscription. This can only be accomplished through good marketing, and exposing people to the content. One week of free service is not enough time for consumers to evaluate the value of becoming a subscriber.
In my opinion, Sirius XM needs to increase the free trial to a point where they can at least capitalize on the word of mouth impact that apps tend to have. If a consumer downloads the app, and does not get a chance to experiment with the service and expose themselves to the value of a subscription, then that is opportunity lost. The “gotta-have-it” factor is diminished by the fact that many simply can’t even offer an informed opinion about Sirius XM.
Sirius XM also needs to get good channel descriptions on the app as soon as possible. Consumers don’t know what the Loft is, nor Faction. Some channels are self explanatory, but others simply leave someone guessing. Sirius XM needs to feature their D.J.’s, and talent. Consumers need to be able to navigate the app as easily as possible. The app needs to provide a wow factor that encourages exploration and participation.
The fact that you can get Sirius XM on an iPhone is great. The company needs to continue to improve the app and the consumer experience in order to maintain a competitive advantage. Presence on the top of the iPhone charts is critical to the perception of consumers, and consumer perception is critical to the success of Sirius XM’s app. It is a vicious circle, but if Sirius XM wants to stay in the game, they have to dance the dance.
Position – Long Sirius XM
Why not offer a Sirius/XM “Lite” App? This app would have all of the music channels, but include commercials. Seems very logical to me. Even if they don’t make money off of it, it would put a serious dent in Pandora’s crappy offering.
Obviously this Lite App would be free…
Tyler, great points made. The biggest marketing challenge for Sirius Xm is their biggest asset, which is content. It has so much content that it is mind boggling to say the least. So this collection of offerings from A to Z and back is actually a big problem from a marketing standpoint. How do you educate potential consumers with as many channels as they offer? This is a huge problem and they need to start taking action. As I just blogged on your last article, this is where you pull out all the stops. I believe that one option is the idle radios. As the idle radio numbers rise (which of course they are) they need to figure a way of bringing into the picture. They have to have a useful purpose, I just can’t believe that the intelligent mind set at Sirius Xm can’t find a way to use them for a way to market a product that has been around long enough that people should be generally aware of which is not at all the case. Talk to people you know and I’d be shocked if over 30% could tell you much at all about Sat. Radio! Try it and you’ll see for your self. It’s still a vague product to the masses. Use of the idle radios is just of many ways thy need to look at to market this complex product.
There is a REALLY simple answer. It is as OBVIOUS as the nose on Howard Stern’s face. ALL SiriusXM has to do is to launch a Pandora/Slacker in addition to their current service. THAT IS ALL. It’s as SIMPLE as that.
If SiriusXM did this, it’d be GAME OVER for the likes of Pandora and Slacker. Seriously. Think about it. SiriusXM can imitate Pandora….but Pandora could NEVER EVER duplicate SiriusXM.
So if SiriusXM added a feature where you could create your own radio stations online like Pandora in addition to their current great LIVE and EXCLUSIVE content…why would ANYONE even want to download Pandora or Slacker. SiriusXM would do it all. They’d be the BEST of EVERYTHING. It’d be a no brainer. They’d win over the kids and adults and every demographic out there.
They need to put a stake in the heart of these other internet radio services NOW. Not later. NOW. How hard would it be to add this as a feature to their online service? And why haven’t they already? I hope not out of stubbornness or arrogance. Sure SiriusXM is better in SO many ways. The content. The live sports and music. It has a soul that you just don’t get with Pandora.
But heres the thing. The kids seem to like downloading Pandora. People like the free. Wether it’s the economy or the laziness, they dig the free. Lol. Even tho now Pandora will begin charging for those that use the service more than 40 hrs a month or so….it’s still free until then. Even tho they put a limit on the number of “skips”, it’s still free. Even tho there are some commercials that break in from time to time(that will probably increase)…it’s still free.
SiriusXM is more versatile and mobile and has so many advantages….BUT….Pandora and Slacker still has that something that SiriusXM doesn’t….the ability to create ones own stations. Now this can get tiresome after awhile, much like ipods no matter how many songs they can hold get tiresome. Management takes time, and sometimes, people just DO NOT want to think about things, they just want to listen to music.
But just the fact that Pandora CAN do something that SiriusXM can’t, people WILL gravitate towards it. Again, ALL Mel and the gang has to do is add a Pandora like feature where people can create their own station, and there would be ZERO reason to stick with Pandora. All the ears would gravitate back to Sirius.
SiriusXM could lure them all by doing this. Why would people choose Pandora if Sirius did the same thing…PLUS gave people all the other great stations, sports, talk and live music on the net, AND in their car???
So all this talk about HOW will Sirius compete with Pandora is MADDENING, because the answer is SO FRIGGIN OBVIOUS it makes me want to scream. We should be bombarding Mel and the management over at SiriusXM with email after email about this. They MUST know this is the answer. Forget all this pride about SiriusXM being better. It IS better. But to compete, to truly compete….SiriusXM has to beat them at their own game. They do that, and Pandora has NOWHERE to go, because they CANNOT compete with SiriusXM in the same way. SiriusXM can easily mimic Pandora, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for Pandora to ever mimic SiriusXM. End of story.
It’s time to get Sun Tzu’s Art of War on Pandora’s ass.
Are we sure Sirius XM even exists? I have been reading alot about people setting up fake companies as a scam to investors. Has anyone ever google mapped the address of this company?
Another question, where does the “itunes” app for itunes rank in the download list of downloaded downloads? This would really make me get a better grasp of who’s really the leader between itunes themselves and pandora.
Could Sirius XM buy Pandora with Cash on hand? Could Mel buy pandora with his own cash? If Pandora was a threat they would not exist because Sirius XM would dispose of them.
Pandora just got a 35 million $$ loan and it was a huge deal. Sirius XM just obtained $500 million in financing more than 10X the size….
blah blah blah…
Just to add…if Sirius did this, people could use this service for free…and upgrade to Sirius’s full service to get ALL the live radio, talk etc.
And for those too cheap to upgrade, Sirius could offer similar upgrades that Pandora provides. Pay a certain amount for unlimited skipping and no commercials. The commercials would create revenue. It’s be win win.
What is Sirius afraid of? That it would cannibalize sales? WHY? Those people that didn’t upgrade would be going over to Pandora anyway!!! So why not KEEP those people in the SiriusXM camp? Again, it’d be win win. If SiriusXM offered this, there’d be NO reason to stick with Pandora. Sirius would have it all.
The possibilities would be endless to what they could do. Countless people would upgrade because they’d want the sports, Howard or the ability to listen in their car or whatever. Many people would finally just want to upgrade because they didn’t want to “program” stations anymore. They’d want more. And if they were ALREADY listening to SiriusXM on their iphone app…it’d be REALLY simple for them to upgrade. But if those people were listening to Pandora and got tired of listening, they’d have to gravitate over to SiriusXM.
WHY give them that pause? That distance to cover?
It’d be so easy to keep EVERYONE under the same tent…and in the same vicinity. As Sirius grows and the car industry and economy improves….Sirius could advertise more and really hit home the ALL in ONE aspect. People would be like…”Pandora who? Slacker what?” The public in mass would think “SIRIUS” when they thought radio/music. It’d be ingrained in the public psyche. Sirius would have the “hip cool” factor. There’d be no other game in town for radio. The ipod/iphone would be the player….but SiriusXM would be the content.
If content is KING as Mel has been saying all along….it’s time to take away Pandora and Slacker’s one advantage with the customizability. Then Sirius would have the content AND the edge.
I rest my case. 🙂
Tyler said…………”Sirius XM also needs to get good channel descriptions on the app as soon as possible. Consumers don’t know what the Loft is, nor Faction. Some channels are self explanatory, but others simply leave someone guessing.”
I can only surmise that you are writing about something you have never tried since every channel has a complete description on the app. I an looking at the description of the “Loft” right now on my Ipod. It says “The Loft explores the sonic connections between a wide range of styles and subjects in a masterful, hand-crafted fashion. Presented by passionate, knowledgeable hosts that merge Alt-Country with AOR, singers and songwriters with AAA and concentrate on the long-lost art of the segue, blending virtually every musical shade in between.”
Are you wanting a better desciption than that or maybe you never even looked.
mcmaverick….
the operative word in the sentence is “good”. I have now bolded that so the point does not out go over anyones head. A GOOD description showcases the talent on the channel. The D.J.’s, the artists that are on the channel, etc. I HAVE used the app, and still use it. Pointing out needed improvements is a good thing. If you want the Rha Rha cheering, then your hang-out at SW is the proper place for you.
I see your ire from the SW site….
“EgisCodr wrote:
Leave it to our favorite “satelite radio” competitor, there is now an article about Sirius getting passed in the iTunes store.
That group is the most uninformed group I have ever seen. It is obvious they have NEVER used the Sirius XM iPhone application they are writing about. Channel desciptions ARE a part of the application now. If you go into the channel description and hit the little blue arrow, you get a description of the channel.
I blame Pandora passing Sirius more on conspiracy that anything else. Nothing but bad reviews for Sirius, though the app is EXACTLY what it says it is. Pandora? Nothing but gleeming reviews, some by the same people. Most only a few words.
Mav’s response….
I couldn’t let that sh*t stand. I posted a reply to that crap over there.
Tyler said…………”Sirius XM also needs to get good channel descriptions on the app as soon as possible. Consumers don’t know what the Loft is, nor Faction. Some channels are self explanatory, but others simply leave someone guessing.”
I can only surmise that you are writing about something you have never tried since every channel has a complete description on the app. I am looking at the description of the “Loft” right now on my Ipod. It says “The Loft explores the sonic connections between a wide range of styles and subjects in a masterful, hand-crafted fashion. Presented by passionate, knowledgeable hosts that merge Alt-Country with AOR, singers and songwriters with AAA and concentrate on the long-lost art of the segue, blending virtually every musical shade in between.”
Are you wanting a better desciption than that or maybe you never even looked.
Idiots!”
Mav,
By uninformed do you mean a toatal lack of understanding of the Liberty Deal? Or perhaps a total lack of understanding of how subscribers are counted? Or perhaps a total lack of understanding of the most recent financing package. People got the REAL information here, because the people here at SirusBuzz GET IT AND UNDERSTAND IT. This site does not run around saying that the Liberty Deal can be reversed. We do not prop up investor hopes that the sub number will be positive when it is impossible for that to happen. We do not publish articles saying that the most recent financing deal is paying off the merger financing when it isn’t.
Let me ask you a question. Would you stop visiting this site and rely soley on information you get there? The answer is no, because you should clearly understand that there have been GROSS errors in understanding of information there…..Yet, you criticise me for asking for better channel descriptions!
See Ya.
Leave it to the SW guys to totally misunderstand something, and pull it out of context. It is no surprise that things go over their heads.
What I stated
“Sirius XM also needs to get good channel descriptions on the app as soon as possible. Consumers don’t know what the Loft is, nor Faction. Some channels are self explanatory, but others simply leave someone guessing. Sirius XM needs to feature their D.J.’s, and talent. Consumers need to be able to navigate the app as easily as possible. The app needs to provide a wow factor that encourages exploration and participation.”
What they pulled as a quote…
“Sirius XM also needs to get good channel descriptions on the app as soon as possible. Consumers don’t know what the Loft is, nor Faction. Some channels are self explanatory, but others simply leave someone guessing.”
You see, they stop short of understanding the deeper thought. That the channel descriptions are too simple and lacking of what makes them more special.
The 80’s channel says, “Select hits from the 80’s. The channel reflects the excitement and vibe from the age of MTV and the video generation”
No mention of Martha Quinn, Casey Kasem, Mark Goodwin, Nina Blackwood, Alan Hunter, etc. What separates Sirius XM’s 80 channel from Pandora, Slacker, or other services with the channel description they have on the app? NOTHING. They need to beef up the app. It is as simple as that.
You didnt address Egis’s point though. He is debating that it is a good description.
For Egis….
You say, “Leave it to our favorite “satelite radio” competitor, there is now an article about Sirius getting passed in the iTunes store.”
1. competitor????
2. An article about Pandora passing Sirius XM is bad for what reason? Because it points out something that Sirius XM should improve? Should investors bury their heads in the sand to this type of news? Please!
You say, “That group is the most uninformed group I have ever seen.”
1. Uninformed? Would you care to discuss how the Liberty deal can be reversed, and Sirius XM can get back the shares? That “informative” information came from where? How right was it? It was TOTALLY WRONG!
How about positive subscriber numbers in Q1? Where did that come from?
How about positive subscriber numbers in Q2? Where did that come from?
How about the royalty legislation with the wrong bills quoted in the article? Where did that come from?
How about the most recent financing reversing the merger debt? At least someone got smart enough to pull that article. Simple reading of the bond offering would have told anyone that the bond offering was for the XM debt.
If things like the examples above are your version of informed, then good luck to you.
You say, “It is obvious they have NEVER used the Sirius XM iPhone application they are writing about.”
You are uninformed yet again. I have the app, and use it. I wrote a review on it, and have also published what I feel would be good upgrades. Obviously you want REAL information, because you still come here to get it.
You say, “Channel desciptions ARE a part of the application now.”
I never said they were not part of the app. I said they needed GOOD channel descriptions, and went on to say that they need to feature their DJ’s and talent in those descriptions. It obviously went over your head though.
You say, “If you go into the channel description and hit the little blue arrow, you get a description of the channel.”
You are correct here. Congratulations. Now understand that I would like to see GOOD channel descriptions.
You say, “I blame Pandora passing Sirius more on conspiracy that anything else.”
Conspiracy????? Oh my god. Pandora has been an iTunes fixture for quite some time. The service is good, and people like it. I know, your crowd does not like anyone saying that, but it is the truth. There is no conspiracy in Pandora passing Sirius XM in the app store.
You say, “Nothing but bad reviews for Sirius, though the app is EXACTLY what it says it is.”
The bad reviews were mostly from anger over the fact that Stern is not on the app.
You say, “Pandora? Nothing but gleeming reviews, some by the same people.”
The service is good. People like it. As I have said, it has been a staple on iTunes for some time now.
Egis, you made your choice. Why even bother reading this site?
I was thinking the same thing. This would be pretty easy to implement online and it would definitely add a lot of value. “Music on demand,” or “Sirius XM on demand.” I like it already.
IN THIS ECONOMY YOU WANNA GIVE A FREE VERSION OF SIRIUS COME ON
Tyler, As always you are on point. It was your site “siriusbuzz”
that introduced me to “PANDORA.” I am a big Howard stern and Sirius fan. I have lost over “75,000” dollars investing in sirius. I STILL BELIEVE. I have been a sirius fan since HOWARD
stern was introduced and I love the service in car/home/the web site. It was “sickening” that the government delayed “merger”
with sirius and xm. As for pandora, it is VERY GOOD and simple –
most importantly free. It is “disgusting” that STERN is not avail on “apple” app. Sirius has to get aggressive and show the
world that they have UNIQUE CONTENT. A “lite” version of the
service would be incredible and get the brand out there…
If possible, they NEED TO BUY PANDORA immediately… stern
needs to understand that INTERNET services like FACEBOOK, TWITTER, etc is “MAINSTREAM.” People get upset that he got 500+ millwho cares…But he has to give back and get this app on IPOD/IPHONE app…this is crucial. I have been “HOOKED” on PANDORA and I own “44,000” shares of sirius and I own a stilletto and IPHONE…Pandora is so simple to get on and it works well…MEL has to wake up and be AGGRESSIVE….PANDORA is very “simple” and it WORKS.
No Michael…NOT FREE. Think for a second before you jump to conclusions. I am not saying Sirius should abandon their PAY model at ALL. It is what makes Sirius a cash cow going forward while Pandora is barely making a fraction of what Sirius can.
If you read my proposal and had any vision, you’d understand that I was saying Sirius should provide a Pandora like service in ADDITION to their current pay service. Can’t you see the GOOD business sense in that? I sure can.
Pandora is free yes…but not really. It has commercals and imposes a 6 song skip limit unless you upgrade. Now that their royalty fees have been raised to 25% of their revenue, I am sure these things will increase.
My point is that millions of people will still download Pandora and use it’s limited free service because it’s free. Millions of people that might be tempted over to Sirius IF they provided a Pandora like service. Doing so would also keep current Sirius subs from moving to Pandora to fill the desire to create their own radio stations.
WHAT I proposed was NOT to give Sirius away for free….but to just ADD a service to their online app that would MIMIC Pandora. It would be a GREAT business move.
People are creatures of habit. They like convenience. If Sirius gave them Pandora like features AND kept their own unique content, there would be ZERO reason to go anywhere else. SIriusXM would have it all. One stop shopping so to speak. They’d have millions more listeners and would have their undivided attention. As a result, it’d be MUCH easier to “upsell” them to the FULL SIRIUS EXPERIENCE. They’d be a captive audience. Get my drift? Is it sinking in?
So YEAH….to answer your question….YES. ESPECIALLY in THIS kind of economy this makes BRILLIANT sense.
Did Pandora downloads go up or Sirius downloads go down? Or did SiriusXM downloads go up, just at a slower pace than Pandora downloads went up? Did Pandora downloads go down, and did SiriusXM downloads just go down faster?
Is that a pace of downloads? A week average ? A month? Is it total, or “pace”, meaning how many for that day, etc..
Pandora is a free app. SiriusXM is not(obviously anyone downloading it knows its not going to be free at some point, hence isnt going to be downloaded willy nilly. Like you would download Pandora willy nilly, since its free.
All these are questions your article doesnt answer, so its not very helpful to me an as investor. Downloaded volume was impressive, especially without Howard downloads, regardless of where Pandora is.
Tyler , do you think Pandora is being downloaded more AS AN ATTACK against perception against the SiriusXM app? I mean it is free, cost nothing to download, an no intention to spend money is necessary.
It is disappointing to be falling down, #2 music app now, but if thats due to an increase in Pandora downloads, then it has different meaning. SiriusXM needs no where near the downloads, as they charge $3 or #13 to use it. YOu cant compare the two like that, except to say it was embarrassing that SiriusXM was ahead of a free app for so long. Yes, I know siriusxm is a free app too, but its intent is to obtain a sub, where Pandora users are not necessarily looking to spend money. Costs them nothing to add it. Costs them nothing to add the siriusxm app, but they might not bother if they have no money to add it, or no intention to anyway down the road, so why bother.
Apples and oranges basically. Article has more worth as a counter to why Pandora is so far ahead of Slacker or something.
Since SiriusXM has no direct competition on the app, no content driven pay sub service, its hard to know where they should be.
Relmor….
iTunes does not give the data you seek. It could be Sirius slowing down, or Slacker picking up. My opinion is that Sirius is slowing down, and Pandora is remaining pretty steady.
Pandora’s intent is to obtain a sub as well. So is Slackers. They want people to upgrade. That is how these services have always been. On the iPhone, Slacker and Pandora are direct competition for Sirius XM.
If you recall, in the early days of SDARS XM was ad supported on music channels. To state that an ad supported model is not competition is a GRAVE error.
So to imply you should rate them as compared to where Pandora is, is a bad guide. I think its impressive to be anywhere near a free app that popular(musicwise). Where would SiriusXM rate as a sports app? Talk radio app? How about a live concert app? Since its all of those, they could be on many lists. They are on a music app, but its only one part of there service. Talk radio, concerts, personalities, comedy shows, and news, etc…
Pandora is a random music generator. Lets not get the two confused Tyler.
Relmor…..
You say Pandora is a random music generator, and not to confuse the services. I am far from confused. I fully grasp what Pandora, Slacker and Sirius XM are. How do you think “random music generators” work?
It isn’t at all random. I type in “Rush”, and I get Rush songs. far from random. Sirius XM has program directors that develop play lists. “Random music generators” has program directors that develop play lists.
Boom Boom Pow is the same on any service.
If I list 20 songs played on one of these services, you would not be able to tell me which service they came from. I have done this time and time again, and people admit that they have no way to know which service the songs played on.
Relmor…..
Stop being an apologist for these guys. They screw up things like what the bond is for, and you say something like, “it only his opinion”. His opinion? For him to attribute the bond offering to the merger refi debt when it CLEARLY states that it is for the XM debt is not an opinion, it is someone that is uninformed who decided to write an article that misinformed many people. It is wrong. Egis is being an ass. He was not debating the quality of the channel descriptions. He clearly read the piece and came to a bad conclusion that I felt there were no descriptions on the app. He stated that in his opinion, that I have never used the app.
SiriusBuzz and Satwaves
Satwaves and SiriusBuzz
Well it appears that whatever is going on between the two blogs is taking presidence over the important subject. I think you all are being egotistical and selfish (in a bad way) and I think you all beleive (in your own minds) you are somehow celebrities. It is sickening and at this point I do not believe anything I read from either site
js….
I am far from a celebrity, but I am also tired of having my credibility challeged, and the ongoing antics that continue to happen. It gets tiresome. I follow certain standards when I write. I adhere to certain rules and criteria when my articles get published elswhere. When others ignore that criteria, it impacts anyone who writes about the sector.
For the most part I stay out of the fray. I took exception to being called “uninformed” and an “idiot” buy people who have put up some of the most unsinformed and idiotic articles in the past few months.
my apologies
I have no need to apologize for that site. Nor would I this site, if it were reversed. If someone at that site is attacking someone here, I would just say it is that persons opinion, and disagree with it. I dont like certain writers, but thats regardless of what they type. I critique and comment as appropriate, at least I try. They can write whatever they want over there. I dont condone anything written on that site just because I post there a lot. I like the posters, and I enjoy the exchange. Not everyone at either site gets it right every time. Its not a competition. Both sites are usefull for anyone interested in learning about the stock, company, or service. I disagree with a lot of what you write Tyler, but agree with more of it. Charles, I rarely agree with anything he writes, but thats because we have different broader based worldviews about certain subjects and subjective concepts. nothing personal. I respect his efforts of course. Now that said, I dont always agree with the other cites authors there either. When I disagree, I always say that. I dont play favorites. I write this because I am typical of the posters attitudes who I enjoy at the other site. Sometimes a site image is assigned to an owner or prominent writer. Thats not fair to the many hundreds of different opinions that appear.
We all want the same thing, siriusXM stock to go up, and the company to succeed. We are all on the same team.
Boys! Boys! I implore you. Stop this bickering. I came here to escape this type of thing in the yahoo boards. 🙂
you’re talking apples versus oranges.
Hmmmm…let’s see, SIRIUS downloads are running pretty close to Pandoras completely free downloads. So, people know that SIRIUS will cost them money after the first week and they STILL take the time to download it. Not only are they trying it out but they are trying it just about as much as something that is free and will remain free. I’d say that is still pretty good news. I guess I like looking at this as ‘a glass half full’…Also, SIRIUS is branching out; they don’t have to be top dog everywhere and anywhere. The more exposure the more chances to attract more subs.
I give SIRIUS an A for effort.
liz gets it….she is saying the same thing I was with my “apples versus oranges” comment, but liz is just a little less cryptic than I.
I feel like every time I criticise or comment negativly about tyler or charles articles or posts, I am labeled a sw lover, and a brandon lover, and that im a puppet and nothing more than a pumper. Once again, i write this as a share view of many posters whos opinion I enjoy. I am not the only one who feels this way who posts on both sites. And to say the other site is a bunch of traders not investors isnt a fair accessment. To hold a large core and trade a small percentage over that is not really being a “trader”. Its being smart, and productive. And yes, that includes trying to guess the stock price. Well, its hard, but not a unprofitable endeavor.
Relmor…..
1. I have seen you defend grossly bad information in articvles before as “his opinion”. In this case, you say that I did not address Egis’s question. Egis was not asking a question. He himself has now admited that he did not comprehend what he read and felt that I thought that there were no channel descriptions on the app. That is why I asked you to stop being an apologist. Egis’s intent was very clear. Unfortunately for him, he only succeeded in demonstrating a general lack of comprehension.
I take exception to being called on the carpet by SW fans who clearly are too afraid to tell the writers when they are dead wrong. Where is Egis or others when the site is touting positive subs for Q2? Where are these people when the bond deal is totally botched in an article? When the Liberty deal is said to be reversible when it is not?
General posters on a site can trade. If you are going to write about a stock, you need to be very careful. There is a distinct difference bettween those that participate on a sites forums, and writers and/or owners of a site. Personally, I apply the Seeking Alpha standards to myself even though I have ended this sites relationship with SA. Those standsrds call for disclosure of ownership and/or trades in an article. People that do not adhere to and knowingly ignore those standards discredit all contributors to SA, and cause a harm to the credibility of a site such as that.
Trading is fine for anyone. It is not fine for a writer who is supposed to be living by certain standards. Can a writer trade? Yes, with proper disclosure. Will a writer that trades be called into question for his motives? Absolutely. Should a writer consider avoiding trading? If that writer wants to remove all doubt from what he/she writes.
Right here Tyler, I do it every time I see it. I dont like false information from anyone including myself. I do admit though I dont go there that often though.
Now that that has been said Tyler, I have to say really trying to compare a pay service to a free service is ridiculous. I have to agree with relmor here what was ridiculous is that a pay service even being close to a free one for so long. It should not be SIRIXM that should be worried it should be Pandora. If I were Pandora I would be screaming what the frick we are FREE and we still get passed. What is wrong with people, WE ARE FREE.
bassmaster, First and foremost, I said, tring to COMPARE the two is ridiculous. You cant compare a pay servise and a free servise on how many times it is used as to its popularity, for the obvious reasons and the ones relmor already said.
Now just so it is clear COMPARE and COMPETE are two different words and two different meanings.
As a follow up to the other. I have always said (even before the merger) that the only competition that SIRI had was XMSR and terrestrial. That at best the rest where side shows the Ipod is nothing more then the next generation walkman. Do the rest compete, yes but just like the CD player was competition to terrestrial and really after taken into account for tech advancements, the rest are nothing more then a CD walkman was competition to terrestrial. Here is the best comparison I can use. Does a payphone compete with your cell phone? yes it does. I dont think I have to ask you though how long has it been since you seen a working payphone around. Do you think Verizon actually worries about the pay phones as competition.
john, this is one of the few times i disagree with you. imo, to believe pandora , slacker , terrestrial radio and siriusxm dont compete with each other is off base. they are all competing for the same market share. pandora would love to get all music listeners using their service, what does that mean to sirius or even terrestrial radio? for us it means losing paying customers.
prior to the merger being approved, wasnt the big argument over monopoly ? and sirius was claiming terrestrial radio , cd’s , ipods were all competition. you cant have it both ways.
they are all competition to sirius including pandora and slacker, because consumers have a choice to download and listen to what they want. our goal is get the best product to the streets and have more people use our service , grow our revenues and in effect our building our s/p….
the sirius xm app is free no ifs and or buts about it. the service is not but there is a 7 day free trial and if it is long enough to convert consumers is debatable. but it is apparent that management believes some sort of free promotion will help take away customers from the “free service apps”..
It would be better however if the SiriusXM app included Baseball and Football….as well as Howard. That way people trying the rather short 1 week trial would get a REAL feel for the whole that Sirius has to offer.
I am sure they are working on the Howard situation. Lets hope baseball and football can be worked out too.
Oh…and I still stand by what I said about how SiriusXM should add a Pandora/Slacker feature where you can create your own radio stations too. Adding that to the iphone app would all but CRUSH Pandora and Slacker. SiriusXM would then dominate the internet too.
For Newman….
1. We do not have a Pandora site.
2. SB is different that the Slacker site. The Slacker site was announced and launched on SiriusBuzz, and I have stated that the sites are linked many times, for a long time. Well before SW started their covert PM campaign here in the forums of this site.
For Egis….
You say, “SB does not get it. I did read the comment from SB as stating there were no descriptions on the channels. Maybe the language should be a little clearer.”
You took the quote out of context. The paragraph clearly mentions featuring the DJ’s and talent directly after saying they need GOOD descriptions.
You say, “These are the same guys recommending LogMeIn Ignition for listening to Stern on the iPhone. Very uninformed story. Pay $30 + a subscription to the service to stream?? They forget to mention you could buy PocketTunes for a ONE TIME fee of $10 and stream Stern. Maybe if they did better research, they would understand how flawed they are.”
1. We are not recommending that people use the service to listen to Sirius XM.
2. The article was about the fact that Stern was advertising a method that would allow such access while the scuttlebut on the street is that it is something in Sterns contract that did not allow him to be on iTunes.
3. I have talked of PocketTunes in the past. Brent on the Bubba show uses that service. Perhaps your knowledge of PocketTunes came from here.
Clearly you are not capable of reading what the point of the article was. It was not about recommending a service. It was about the fact that the iPhone is nothing more than a cell phone that doubles as a little computer, and Stern himself was advertising a service that is capable of streaming Sirius XM even while it seems that his contract does not allow such streaming. I also informed readers quite clearly about the terms of service that could prohibit such streaming. Terms of agreements are important. Look at the terms of the Seeking Alpha contributors, and let me know who is and who isn’t in compliance.
I know! I know! I know the answer to why Pandora is now passing SiriusXM on downloads! These million people downloaded the SXM app for it’s trial period and in the mean time heard all kinds of comparisons to Pandora so once the week long free trial was over, they went back to the itunes store and down loaded Pandora for free. So see, SXM marketing did a bang up job of unwittingly promoting Pandora. They did not give a long enough free trial to get people hooked on SXM. I wonder if it’s all interns that are running the marketing department? There are so many missteps with marketing and promotional ideas.
bm:
All I’ll say about SB is this. When Malone sells SIRI back his 40%, they will then be valued accordingly. When the ugly deal is refinanced, they will again be shown their worth. They are like little children who laugh at the kid who struck out but are afraid to stand in the batters box themselves.
There were 12 analyst views on the street. No one expected a loss in subs of the magnitude we saw last quarter. Tuna Amobi himself stated he did not expect a loss in subs last quarter. Truth is no one did. You want to know how Tyler knew? He knew because a certain someone at Sirius XM told him everything to prop himself up above me. It was a favor returned for favors given in an effort to discredit this site only.
It was at that time when SB was doing everything they could to discredit me personally and Satwaves. They sure loved the traffic my articles brought them. They continue to write articles in response to my articles. You never see them combat the Motley Fool or The Street.com. No. Why would they? They have no balls. They have a personal vendetta against me that has made that site worthless.
I put myself out there. They would not know how to begin a real analysis. They don’t have to however. They will get the info from a certain source and publish it as though they were some kind of geniuses who came up with the numbers themselves.
They should call the site Satwavesresponse.com or BrandonBuzz.com, because they have no idea what people involved in Sirius XM are buzzing about….until they read Satwaves of course…
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO …OMGGGGG is this guy hilarious or what.. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO… hey relmor is this his opinion also? cause he presents it as a fact..LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
at least he admits he is striking out…
slander and libel……enough said
In my unbiased opinion, SiriusBuzz is far more credible than SatWaves. I’m not suggesting that means a whole lot, but on a relative basis SiriusBuzz is far more credible.
How long as Pandora app been out and how long has SiriusXM app been out. SiriusXM is a clear winner. Pandora had the jump, but SiriusXM has made its splash. You are way too early to rush on this article after only what 3 or 4 weeks. Thats the problem with blogs and journalist. Anything for sensationalism.
Tyler, I have also crapped in my pants before, doesnt mean I am incontient(spelling). I defended Brandon before on an individual case by case basis. He gets no blanket apology from me. I am going to say this one more time. Its not a competition. Tyler, to be honest, this site spends more time on that site than the reverse. Trust me, Im on both everyday. Occasionally that site will respond to an article from here, but you seem to write in response to Brandon sometimes. As you have a duty to counter him. Thats fine. Just saying what I see. I know you want good information out there. We all do. Hes no Motely Fool, hes no WSJ, and hes no street.com. Hes a great journalist that gets it wrong sometimes. Your a great journalist that takes less chances on being wrong. Ive been over this before. Two different styles.
Both of you are warriors, fighting for the same side. Truth and honest debate.
Relmor…..
I don’t spend time on Satwaves. I get emails from people pointing out gross erros, and then see a bunch of people actually believeing that the liberty deal can be reversed, or that the bond deal will erase Sirius XM debt when the bond deal was dealing with XM debt, or that subscribers will be positive in Q1 or Q2. These gross errors are what draw a response. The correction needs to be made, and since they wont make the correction themselves most of the time, someone needs to get the truth out there. If not for the gross errors, there would be no need to put up an article of response. If they would get things like these right in the first place, then investors would have good information to work from and with.
I have responded to what I consider bad articles by Motley fool. However, many of their articles are clear opinion pieces. When a site wants to call themselves a journalistic site, they need to do a bit of research. When they say that the bond deal is paying off one set of debt, when it is actually paying off another, that is not an opinion. It is poor research, and a lack of understanding of the wording in the filing.
Brandon can feel free to correct me when I get something wrong. Perhaps the reason you do not see such articles from him is that I take the time to understand the issue prior to writing about it. I take that time because I do not want bad information disiminated with my name attached to it.
This is not about writting style or taking risks. Reversal of the malone deal was not taking a risk, it was bad research and uninformed opinion. Thinking that subs would be positive is not taking a risk. I don’t reven know what to call it! Subs will be negative….period. Misunderstanding the bond deal is not taking a risk, it is misunderstanding the deal.
If you call my style conservative, that is fine. I put myself out there as much as anyone, but I make sure I am on decent footing when I do it. Last Q, I said subs would be negative by as much as 500K or so. At the time, dozens said I was out on a limb. Now, that the number came to fruition, it was Brandon out on a limb? Come on, be real.
Yes, he has put out bad information. I was voiceful in my opinion that the LIberty deal was non reversable. If you remember, even before the site split, I was the number 1 advocator of it being a done deal. To stop worrying about it going away, or getting a better offer, or a buyout from someone else. I said it was never going to happen. As for what debt would be paid with the notes, I also said there was no way in hell the 2014 debt would be touched with ANY of that money. That is a sort of speculation, and if someone wants to think 150 million of that and stock is going to wipe that out, then let there delusions continue. Thats an opinion. About the R/S, I disagree with Brandon too, and say it everytime.
About positive sub numbers, I drank a bit of koolaid, but it wasnt SW koolaid, it was the jerk Tuna. He is usually very conservative, I didnt know he was just saying that to set up a bull trap. No one did. Except you and few others too knowledgeable about how subs are counted to allow that. Thank you. You helped convince me that day to have my finger on the sell button, and it paid off for me. Not the only reason, but one of them. So i thank you for keeping me grounded.
You dont take chances however. By taking chances, I mean being the first to speculate on a possibility. I like that kind of journalism personally, as an investor, as it is more helpful to me to keep ahead of the game. I am smart enough to discredit bad specualation, and I hope all readers are. Why we exchange and debate the articles after they are written. To offer counter points.
relmor2003 says:
July 11, 2009 at 10:52 pm
So to imply you should rate them as compared to where Pandora is, is a bad guide. I think its impressive to be anywhere near a free app that popular(musicwise). Where would SiriusXM rate as a sports app? Talk radio app? How about a live concert app? Since its all of those, they could be on many lists. They are on a music app, but its only one part of there service. Talk radio, concerts, personalities, comedy shows, and news, etc…
if you would search the app store or itunes, you would find that siriusxm is the #1 app (paid or free) on talk radio category. it is 3rd on comedy (1st in free) and somewhere around 25th (paid and free) in the news category.3rd in personalities(free app is 1st).. i think this is all related to how siriusxm app is tagged tho. i didnt find the app under the concerts category. but all you have to do is type a keyword in search and if sirius or apple has tagged that word , then the sirius app will appear in that ranking.
oh and btw. under radio – it is 2nd (1st free), ahead of pandora radio which is 4th overall.
obviously i am making the assumption that the order is based on popularity/downloads.
Thanks for that information. Im glad they list the app in other categories. Why I said its apples and oranges. Apparently Cos1000(as posted elsewhere) and John also agree with me.
PS. My “me’s” above, is really about 15 posters too, who dont let facts get swept away by speculation. There are plenty of counter opinions offered, and factual information offered on SW for information to be credible. Ive read 100 articles by WSJ, Barrons, and Street.com, and Motely fool that are so full of errors and lies, YOUR ATTENTION TO SW is unwarrented. Go out and counter articles like I do, and spread your facts. Your facts now have less of an audience now that SB isnt using your articles anymore, per your request. Which seems counter productive to me, but you obviously have your reasons. If I ran a site, and SA picked up some of my articles, and changed the names, and took link credit, or whatever, I would say o well, at least they general populous gets at least some good information. But whatever, thats not the point of this discussion.
Unwarrented might be the wrong word. Maybe, misfocused. Due to readership numbers, you would be more worried about lies from major newspapers. Never read one article from you about the CNET add service 2wice printing BK or old debt articles on price surges. So I interpret that as you either dont care, or dont have to time to adress bs, and lies. But you have time if its from SW. So your inconsistant.
1. There are 15 solid posters who comment and chat the fool.com, why don’t you hang out there (rhetorical)?
2. You assume that we have less of an audience now. You might be happy about SA picking up your articles but, as you admit it only SEEMS counterproductive and we must have our reasons.
3. Lets try and keep the comments section, simply comments and on topic (I am talking to all). Any further questions or replies can be handled via the forums.
4. For the record, I never read SW and don’t ever plan to. I honestly wish people would stop emailing me about the inaccuracies.
I spend just as much time addressing lies here, as I do SW, or SA, or MF, or yahoo boards. Or any where they allow poster comments. I call these journals, I call the NASDAQ about fat finger trades, and fight with my broker almost daily. So to say your “worried about facts” as you see, is inconsistant. I day your “worried about facts, if its coming from SW only”.
Hence, it seems personal.