This is important...

[Newman]

DScum: you honestly believe that the channel change pissed off a "majority" of the customers? That would mean there is 9 million pissed off listeners... I siriusly doubt it.

[DScum]

DScum: you honestly believe that the channel change pissed off a "majority" of the customers? That would mean there is 9 million pissed off listeners... I siriusly doubt it.

Please see my definition of subscribers vs. customers. SiriusXM does not have 19 million listeners, they have 19 million subscriptions to their service.

[SiriusBuzz]

Who gives a shit what the number is, his point is still valid. The majority are not pissed off.

[DScum]

Who gives a shit what the number is, his point is still valid. The majority are not pissed off.

His point is not valid. Here is my reasoning on the matter.

Long wait times on customer service lines. This is not due to people holding for 90 minutes to compliment the company.

Highest call volume since 12/26/05. I am sure all these calls in mid-late November are a result of happy customers or new subs.

Call center supervisors saying they've given out more months of free service than any point in history.

Perhaps you are right majority isn't the right word. Because neither of us can poll each individual consumer. Therefore; neither of us could legitimately argue whether the majority of consumers are pissed off, only make educated assumptions. So let me rephrase.

A fairly sizable portion of subscribers to Sirius and XM are pissed off by the changes.

[SiriusBuzz]

"fairly sizable" is totally subjective. I don't want to play wordsmith games with you. We will see if there is even a blip when the numbers come out and then revisit this thread.

I personally know no less then a dozen subscribers in my life personally and none of us give a shit about this lineup change. NOT ONE.

[Newman]

Ok DScum, let us make a little differentiation between listeners and subscribers.

There are nearly 19 million counted subscriptions. You know what is not counted? None of the rental car agreements are counted as subscriptions. None of the corporate accounts are counted as subscriptions. I have actually never heard if they differentiate multiple radio accounts as separate subscriptions or not.

Now let's discuss adding those new subs. Sirius and XM have played this game for years to pad their stats. Shadow accounts for new vehicles when a new vehicle enters a retail auto lot it's satrad is activated. This is listed as a sub, yet it does not pay subscription rates to the company. With fewer vehicles rolling off assembly lines and onto car lots you can look for this loss of padding to make an impact. The estimated churn of these shadow accounts is 50k-200k per fiscal quarter.

Sirius XM does count a sizable number of "parking lot subscriptions" but not all cars on dealer lots are counted as subscriptions, and those that are counted are PAID IN ADVANCE. That is right, as soon as the car rolls off the line, the OEM makes payment to Sirius XM. This is true for any car that they count as a subscription, such as the Ford contract, as well as some others. If the user cancels or does not renew after these subscriptions, then they are added to churn.

Other contracts, such as GM, are never counted as a subscription until the customer decides to renew AFTER THE FREE TRIAL. If they do not renew, they never get counted as a subscriber, and also never get counted in the churn.

XM never padded their numbers with parking lot subs, Sirius did. Last time Sirius announced the number, it was 11%. This means that out of nearly 19 million subs, theoretically about 10 are from XM, 9 are from Sirius. Take 11% off of Sirius's 9 million, that drops it to 8 million. The service still has 18 million paid subscriptions with ears on the other side of the radio. That extra million or so "parking lot subs" are already paid, so Sirius has the cash already, they just have not been sold yet.

Make sure you know your metrics before you start throwing numbers out.

[DScum]

"fairly sizable" is totally subjective. I don't want to play wordsmith games with you. We will see if there is even a blip when the numbers come out and then revisit this thread.

I personally know no less then a dozen subscribers in my life personally and none of us give a shit about this lineup change. NOT ONE.

I know no less than 25 subscribers personally and 20 of them are upset about the lineup change as they lost programming they enjoyed.

Remember the projection for 4Q 2008 is 200,000 growth for the combined company.

[Noob]

Yikes...as a total Noob, it may be out of place to give my 1/2 cents worth, but with the amount of bickering going on and back on forth, I see this discussion going nowhere, much like arguing whether the current Canadian Govt should be ousted or not (a big thing going on right now North or the border).

I think the mod(s) should lock this thread.

[Newman]

I know no less than 25 subscribers personally and 20 of them are upset about the lineup change as they lost programming they enjoyed.

Remember the projection for 4Q 2008 is 200,000 growth for the combined company.

Yes, I don't know why we couldnt see it... your 20 friends that are upset about the lineup change definately consitute what you describe first as "the majority", and then later "A fairly sizable portion of subscribers". My appologies.

Take a look at some numbers: Subscriber Number Charts

Combined net adds for Q4:

2007: 1,113,260
2006: 1,347,247
2005: 2,040,955
2004: 1,194,070

And you think in 2008 these will be less than 200k huh? You think that the 4th quarter: Traditionally the BUSIEST AND BIGGEST quarter for the company where they always add more net adds than any other quarter, will be less than 200k, when just this past Q3 they added 344,100 subs?

You have got to be out of your mind... I thought everyone realized that that prediction was a joke... apparenly everyone but you and the analysts covering the stock.

[Newman]

You could also realize that it is one of the moderators and the site owner who are doing the bickering with this guy, right?