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Thread: Dueling tax plans

  1. #1
    Rewind is offline
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    Dueling tax plans

    The Republican-led Congress failed to pass any healthcare reform. That is because none of their proposals actually "reformed" anything. Each would have led to higher premiums, skimpier coverage, huge tax breaks for insurance companies and the loss of insurance for as many as 20,000,000 Americans.

    The Republican-led Congress is now tackling federal tax reform. The House plan would limit property tax deductions to $10,000. The Senate plan would eliminate them entirely. Both plans would eliminate itemized deductions for state and local taxes. This would mean much higher taxes for residents of New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California and other high-cost states.

    Both plans would lower the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%. That would be the lowest corporate tax rate since 1939. Both plans would double the estate tax exemption, from $11,000,000 to $22,000,000. The House plan would also eliminate the estate tax, beginning in 2024. The Senate plan would lower the top individual tax rate from 39.6% to 38.5%.

    To put it briefly, big corporations and the wealthiest Americans (including President Trump) will benefit from either plan -- and the middle class will not.

    This is a thread in which we can discuss the tax plans and their impact. Discuss. That means others besides myself need to participate. Let's get Sirius Buzz buzzing.

  2. #2
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    These plans would add $1.7 trillion to the deficit and I don't think either one of them will be approved. Congress should work on lowering the deficit.

  3. #3
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    I agree. Tax cuts sound nice -- especially if they benefit the middle class and not just the wealthy -- but realistically they shouldn't be doled out unless Congress can afford them. There is some kind of rule that says the tax plan cannot add more than $1.5 trillion to the federal deficit over the next ten years. So $1.74 trillion is unacceptable but $1.5 trillion is just fine. Don't ask me to explain it. I can't.

    House Republicans are rushing to pass a $74 billion hole in their tax bill

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...eficit-2017-11

  4. #4
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    Further proof that the Republicans care about the wealthy but not abot the middle class:

    How the House GOP tax plan soaks university cooks, custodians and other low-paid workers
    Ending a deduction that benefits university workers is even worse than people think, say two tax experts.
    Daniel Marans, The Huffington Post, Nov 11 2017 02:43 AM

    The tax reform plan introduced by House Republicans eliminates a number of tax deductions to pay for a series of tax cuts that mostly benefit the very wealthy. One of the provisions it eliminates is a rule that allows graduate students to deduct from their taxes the tuition waivers they receive as a form of compensation from their universities. The proposed removal of the deduction has generated much uproar among research advocates who argue that it will discourage people from getting advanced degrees. But ending the deduction would also hurt university employees who benefit from tuition waivers if they or their children attend the university where they work, noted Sam Brunson, a professor of tax law at Loyola University Chicago School of Law, and Michael Austin, executive vice president of academic affairs at the University of Evansville.

    For well-paid university administrators or star professors, paying taxes on this benefit is likely a manageable, though significant, burden. But for secretaries, janitors and security guards on the university’s payroll receiving free college tuition, ending the exemption would be financially onerous. That’s especially disconcerting because being able to pay for a free college education often enables the children of these working-class employees to move up the socioeconomic ladder. "Tuition waivers can be a life-changing opportunity for some of our lowest-paid employees," Brunson and Austin say. To make matters worse, the income tax on the tuition waiver would tax the "full sticker price of tuition" rather than the discounted rate universities provide for most students. As a result, low-earning university employees could find themselves paying taxes on income that is worth far more than the university tuition would cost in practice.

    University employees still have some hope: The Senate’s version of tax bill kept the deduction for tuition waivers in place. But if the Republican Congress is able to hash out a compromise between the two bills, there is no guarantee the provision will make it into the final legislation that heads to President Donald Trump’s desk.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e37d2f37d1bb

  5. #5
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    Another difference is that the Senate plan has seven tax brackets and the House plan has four. I don't think there should be any brackets. I think everyone should pay the same percentage. That would be fair to everybody.

  6. #6
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    I agree with that idea in theory -- but too many corporations and individuals are using overseas tax shelters to reduce their taxes. If those were made illegal so everybody paid taxes on total income, a single rate for everybody is a good idea.

    The top federal tax rate is 39.6%, almost four times the tithe (10%) that Christ says we're to give to God (the church). And then there is state tax, property tax, gasoline taxes and utility taxes. Add in sales taxes, which, here in Los Angeles is an outrageous 9.75%, and it's no wonder so many families have such a hard time getting by.

  7. #7
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    The daily taxes we all pay are flat - everyone pays the same in your tax district. The person who makes $100,000 never notices but those at $30,000 do. Those taxes take a large portion of income at low levels. Any flat tax is regressive and unfair to low income workers.

    Almost no company pays the top corp rate. Most pay between 10%-20%. Many of the largest pay NOTHING or get money back. The rates mean almost nothing except to ideologues who want to stop all taxation on corporations and the rich.

    The tithe is irrelevant in this context.

    https://americansfortaxfairness.org/...ate-tax-rates/

  8. #8
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    With a single federal income tax rate, say 15%, the $100,000 earner would pay $15,000 and the $30,000 earner would pay $4,500. That, to me, is fair. Why should people who make high incomes be punished with higher tax rates? Many people -- the lower and middle class, mostly -- like to assert that the wealthy should pay "their fair share." Who gets to decide what that "fair share" is? And taxing the wealthy at a much higher rate just because they can afford it, well, that doesn't seem fair.

    Here in California, hundreds of thousands of upper-income people have moved out of state because their taxes are so high. We in the lower and middle class can't afford to move. We're stuck here. Ideally, every wage earner should pay the same -- but, to ease the burden on the lower class, the first $25,000 of income would not be taxed. Just wait till I run for Governor!

  9. #9
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    There are many ways open to the rich (or even not so rich) to minimize taxes that are NOT available to lower income people. Lower income workers have no money to invest and earn profit at low tax rates or write off losses. That's some of the reason flat taxes don't work at lower levels. The rules are made for upper income people. The deck has always been stacked that way.

    Your example: Compare the remaining amounts; how far will 25,500 go compared to 85,000?

    One needs to be VERY familiar with tax rules to understand what's fair and not fair. The rates on corporations above prove that. The amount of propaganda in this area, as well as others, is HUGE. It is no longer appropriate to read a few things and know what is really going on and how complex things really are. The media generally does not fulfill its obligation to inform COMPLETELY. It leaves out much and frequently colors what it does reveal to benefit the "right" people. That's why I post what I do because additional background and perspective is vitally necessary in EVERY instance. Basic knowledge in anything is useless. Reading widely from many objective, authoritative sources DAILY is necessary, and even then understanding is only provisional.

    We live in a plutocracy - PERIOD. So never believe anyone who tells you that working people will be taken care of, and FAIRLY, in any discussion. Only the rich count and everything is structured for their benefit. The Republican party exists to be sure that the playing field is NOT level or "fair."
    Last edited by Atypical; 11-12-2017 at 05:14 PM.

  10. #10
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    "Reading widely from many objective, authoritative sources DAILY is necessary, and even then understanding is only provisional."

    I agree. I watch liberal news channels and conservative channels. I listen to liberal talk stations and conservative talk stations. I read news stories on liberal websites and conservative websites. The facts of any individual news story -- not opinions but facts -- are reported in so many different ways, depending upon who's doing the reporting, it is indeed sometimes difficult to know what to believe. And don't worry: I never expect the plutocracy to take care of the working class. Here is an excerpt from an NBC News analysis of the GOP's tax plan:

    "While Trump boasts that the middle class are the real winners in the bill, many of the biggest benefits go to corporations, large business owners and ultra-wealthy heirs. High-income taxpayers stand to benefit handsomely from provisions such as repealing the alternative minimum tax and the bills' pass-through cuts. One provision in particular is an exclusive boon to the super-rich: Repealing the estate tax. Trump's family could save more than $1 billion from the provision."

    They’ve got issues. Here’s who is mad about the GOP tax plan.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...ut-gop-n819116

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