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Thread: Energy Chairman's Hypocrisy

  1. #1
    Havakasha is offline
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    Energy Chairman's Hypocrisy

    http://www.dailykos.com/

    Typical.

    byMeteor Blades

    GOP Sanctimony: Comeuppance Department
    As we learned last November, House Energy Committee and Commerce Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-MI), a ferocious critic of the Obama administration's energy policies, lobbied the Department of Energy in 2009 to provide loan guarantees for United Solar Ovonic. The company is a subsidiary of Michigan-based Energy Conversion Devices, a maker of rooftop solar panels. In a move that surprised no one after months of notices about lay-offs and a suspension of operations, ECD filed for bankruptcy Tuesday and said it will sell off USO. The Club for Growth, the anti-tax group that is pondering support for a primary challenge against Upton, has already chastised Upton for seeking DOE backing for the company.

    Together with 13 of the other 16 members of the Michigan congressional delegation, Upton sent a letter in December 2009 to DOE Secretary Steven Chu seeking loan guarantees for several companies, including USO.

    The request would be nothing out of the ordinary except the Republican congressman is engaged in a long-running investigation of the guarantee for Solyndra, a California-based company that received a $535-million guarantee to great fanfare, including a visit from Obama. It went bankrupt in September 2011. Upton and other Republicans have been hounding the administration about it every since.

    Just days after Solyndra's bankruptcy announcement. Upton said in a statement: “It is not the role of government to pick winners and losers. Let’s learn the lessons of Solyndra before another dollar goes out the door.” During a hearing in November, Upton excoriated Chu: "The number of red flags about Solyndra that were raised along the way—many from within DOE—and either ignored or minimized by senior officials is astonishing."

    Red flags apparently weren't on Upton's mind two years ago. USO's troubles were clearly visible well before the congressman signed onto the letter seeking DOE backing. In fact, just two weeks before the letter was sent, USO had announced 425 lay-offs. The DOE did not provide ECD with a loan guarantee.

    Club for Growth spokesman Barney Keller said Thursday: "Every Republican supports an investigation of Solyndra—the question is, where were you before? Fred Upton has a long record of supporting market-distorting energy subsidies."

  2. #2
    Havakasha is offline
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    Remember the guy who posted here incessantly on one company to the exclusion
    of the entire alternative energy industry? Yep, that guy. lol
    He and all his fellow right wingers are consumate hypocrites.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 02-17-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #3
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Remember the guy who posted here incessantly on one company to the exclusion
    of the entire alternative energy industry? Yep, that guy. lol
    He and all his fellow right wingers are consumate hypocrites.
    I fully agree that money corrupts both Republicans and Democrats alike. The government should not act as a venture capitalist with our precious tax dollars. Not only does it interfere with the free market creating false expectations (e.g. solar), but it robs other far more noteworthy causes (e.g. education). Let venture capitalists provide these workwhile companies with funding lol.

  4. #4
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    I thought you believed that it corrupts Democrats more. lmfao.
    Govt can help jump start industry. It has done so historically. Examples are oil and gas industry, computer industry etc. Its as American as apple pie.

    I agree thought tht it shouldnt play a huge part in bankrolling business, but i think this is a perfect example of where your ideological rigidity doesnt allow to see any of the benefits of govt in this sphere.
    Govt/business partnerships have always been with us in our 200 plus years.

    The solar industry has become an integral part of the economies in both capitalist and communist countries such as Germany, China and even to some extent in the U.S. etc.. because of significant assistance from govt policies. I just dont see anything wrong with that.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 02-17-2012 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    I thought you believed that it corrupts Democrats more. lmfao.
    Govt can help jump start certain industries. It has historically. Examples are oil and gas industry, computer industry etc.
    I agree it shouldnt play a huge part of bankrolling business, but i think this is a perfect example of where your rigid ideology doesnt allow for any flexibility.
    Govt/business partnerships have always been a part of the American way.

    Solar industry has become an integral part of the economies in both capitalist and communist countries such as Germany, China and even to some extent in the U.S.(and elsewhere) because of significant assistance from govt policies. I just dont see anything wrong with that.
    Solar isn't an integral part of anything yet. It's still to expensive and will increase electricity prices to the rich and poor alike. The government has to subsidize it or it will fail on it's own. All those subsidized dollars have an associated opportunity cost. But then again, you might not understand opportunity cost - government money is unlimited in you mind. Since that is so popular with all you liberals, why not just print money and send it to the poor? Why even worry about taxing the rich? I digress.

    I am very flexible. The problem is that government is in the venture capital business based solely on "policy". That's sad.

  6. #6
    Havakasha is offline
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    I have posted many articles that have demonstrated that solar and wind energy use is growing in this country (not to mention the world).
    I think the example of what has happened in Germany (one of your favorite economic examples. No?) have demonstrated quite the opposite of what you are saying.

    In the past the Oil and gas industry for example had govt help that enabled it to bring exploration costs, etc down.
    Solar and wind cost reductions are happening and I believe these industries will become an increasingly important part of our energy future.

    I think I already commented many times that I dont believe in unlimited govt help. But then you prefer to push your Republican agenda (solyndra etc.) rather than to listen what i have explained
    to you.

    There have been many beneficial results from Govt/business partnerships in my opinion. I think many businesses and business people would acknowledge that.

    I have no clue whatsoever as to why you think the Peter Schiff economic philosophy is such a smart one when i have very clearly shown him to be quite off base on many of his economic
    predictions.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 02-17-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  7. #7
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    I have posted many articles that have shown that solar and wind energy use is growing in this country (not to mention the world).
    I think the example of what has happened in Germany (one of your favorite economic examples. No?) have demonstrated quite the opposite of what you are saying.
    Oil and gas industries had a lot of govt help that enabled it to bring exploration costs etc down.
    Solar and wind cost reductions are on their way. I believe they will become an increasingly important part of our energy picture in the future.
    I think I already commented many times that I dont believe in unlimited govt help. But then you prefer to push your Republican agenda (solyndra etc.) rather than to listen to other peoples opinions.

    Nothing sad about Govt/business partnerships in my opinion. I think many businesses and business people would agree with that.
    I am not sure why you think the Peter Schiff economic philosophy is such a smart one when i have very clearly shown him to be quite out of touch on economic policy.
    Actually, module prices are projected to INCREASE in the third or fourth quarter. And that has to happen if you want these companies to EXIST.

    It is good to hear that you don't believe in unlimited government help. Next step will be to demonstrate what you say you believe.

    I'll bite on Schiff and Dr. Paul - they called the housing bubble long before it happened with absolute irrefutable and astounding proof. They explain exactly what happened long before it did. If you could offer anything remotely close from your favorite political keynesian, I would recognize it. But you can't. It doesn't exist with the same profound quality of either Schiff or Dr. Paul. I looked.

  8. #8
    Havakasha is offline
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    Ah, you find one thing they predicted correctly and you draw a general conclusion from it.
    That same prediction was made by people of the right and left.

    The point is that I have factually demonstrated, many times over, that they were very wrong
    about many of their predictions over many years including most recently the prediciton that the
    stock market would undergo a catastrophic collapse in Jan. of 2011 and also that 2011 would
    bring us hyperinflation.

    YOU CANT REFUTE THESE FACTS NO MATTER HOW EMBARASSING THEY MIGHT BE
    TO YOUR CORE ECONOMIC BELIEFS.

    The solar and wind industry are growing in the U.S. and worldwide. Thats not to say their arent difficuties due to economic conditions and low Chinese prices. But, clearly they will be an increasing part of the U.S. energy industry into the distant future. I dont understand why that
    threatens you.

    Germany? ah i knew you would ignore it since it doesnt fit with your theories on govt help to industry.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 02-17-2012 at 11:30 PM.

  9. #9
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Ah, you find 1 thing they predicted correctly and you draw a general conclusion from it.
    That same prediction was made by people of the right and left.

    The point is that as I have factually demonstrated many times is that they were very wrong
    about many of their predictions over the course of many years including almost ALL of their
    predictions most recently.

    The solar and wind industry are growing. Thats not to say their arent difficuties due to economic
    conditions and low Chinese prices. But, clearly they will be an increasing part of the U.S. energy
    industry into the distant future. You should support that.

    Germany? ah i knew you would ignore it since it doesnt fit with your theories. You are very transparent on
    this matter unfortunately.
    I have to go pick up the kids, but thanks for discussion today.

    Where did you get this Germany stuff from? I'm not sure what you are talking about or what "theory" you are trying to create for me. If you have a point, I'll certainly try to understand it.

    I'll wait to see evidence from you that is as powerful and as accurate as Schiff's and Paul's - two actual video's years in advance that specifically cite the reasons for the bubble. Candidly, I wish I had known of them back then. My neighbor called it, "your better off selling now and moving into an apartment then buying it back in 5 years." He must have seen Schiff take on Laffer that fatefull day...........

  10. #10
    Havakasha is offline
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    Just do some reading on Germany's approach to the alternative energy industry.


    I have provided you a number of articles on people on the left who predicted a bursting of the housing and stock market bubble. You know what i am talking about. Dont play dumb. Just look back to Alan Greenspan (the Conservative Republican head of the fed who denied those bubbles)
    times.

    I cant help you with your support of Mr. Peter Schiff. I have provided damaging, even damning evidence to demonstrate that he is a charlatan. If you choose to ignore it thats your problem.
    What you have repeatedly failed acknowledge is that Mr. Schiff is a SERIAL doom an gloom guy who predicts the sky is falling each and every year. Occassionally he gets one right. Dont be a fool and fall for his predictions for example: the Dow will drop to 1,400 or gold will rise to $12,000 in the next 2 years. I would be embarassed to have referred to that as a "bold" prediction, when it was clearly an asinine prediction designed to sell subscriptions to his newsletter and feed his bloated ego.You are one of those fools (cant be any more blunt)who seems to have bought him hook, line and sinker.

    Have a good day.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 02-17-2012 at 11:33 PM.

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