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Thread: The Mother of All No-Brainers

  1. #1
    Havakasha is offline

    The Mother of All No-Brainers

    This is written by a Conservative Republican. Compare this to who Siriuslylong says is
    causing the impending catastrophe over debt default and then decide who is more ideologically biased and wrong on the facts. Read the link below to read the article in its entirety.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/op...ml?ref=opinion


    OP-ED COLUMNIST
    The Mother of All No-Brainers
    By DAVID BROOKS
    Published: July 4, 2011

    The Republicans have changed American politics since they took control of the House of Representatives. They have put spending restraint and debt reduction at the top of the national agenda. They have sparked a discussion on entitlement reform. They have turned a bill to raise the debt limit into an opportunity to put the U.S. on a stable fiscal course.

    Republican leaders have also proved to be effective negotiators. They have been tough and inflexible and forced the Democrats to come to them. The Democrats have agreed to tie budget cuts to the debt ceiling bill. They have agreed not to raise tax rates. They have agreed to a roughly 3-to-1 rate of spending cuts to revenue increases, an astonishing concession.

    Moreover, many important Democrats are open to a truly large budget deal. President Obama has a strong incentive to reach a deal so he can campaign in 2012 as a moderate. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, has talked about supporting a debt reduction measure of $3 trillion or even $4 trillion if the Republicans meet him part way. There are Democrats in the White House and elsewhere who would be willing to accept Medicare cuts if the Republicans would be willing to increase revenues.

    If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred million dollars of revenue increases.

    A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.

    The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary.

    This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers.

    But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

    The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

    The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 07-05-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Atypical is offline
    "Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative".

    No shit!

    They don't govern - they pillage.
    They don't govern - they threaten.
    They don't govern - they argue.
    They don't govern - they lie.
    They don't govern - they refuse to do anything just because they can.
    They don't govern - they only want to do for their corporate handlers, not for people.
    They don't govern - they harass.

    Greed, power and favors. All politicians trade in those things but to conservatives those are the ONLY things.

  3. #3
    SiriuslyLong is offline
    Guru
    SiriuslyLong's Avatar
    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    The democrats are the ideological party wanting to TAKE earned income away from those who earn it for their own corrupt benefit (power). It is theft plain and simple. Individuals like Atypical like to bitch about republicans, but at least this party wants people like me to keep more of the $51,000 of compulsory taxes paid to various governments. People like you think $51,000 is perfectly acceptable -- we must "be rich". Wrong.

    May I share some Thomas Jefferson with you two?

    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

    "The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."

    Nice thought Jefferson, but you're dead and we now have "progressives" who think your ideas were only comtemporary.

    When the hypocrites, sorry democrats, take more taxation off the table, then discussions will advance. Their political ideology of TAKING what is not theirs is standing in the way of this important issue.

  4. #4
    Havakasha is offline
    Some people are clueless about who is trying to help the middle class. Here is just one simple example

    "Obama reportedly rejected a plan to impose further means-testing of Medicare -- a benefit cut Democrats abhor -- arguing that he could not in good conscience shift hundreds of dollars in annual Medicare costs on to middle-class seniors if Republicans aren't willing to ask wealthy Americans to contribute even pocket change to deficit reduction."

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
    Guru
    SiriuslyLong's Avatar
    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    If you really, really want to help the middle class, then stop taking so much money from people like me. We do not have tax accountants, tax shelters or trusts. We have a piddly little savings account earning 0.02%.

  6. #6
    Havakasha is offline
    Republicans are threatening to take money from you. Dems are trying to take subsidies away from people with tax shelters and trusts.
    I quess you must be supporting the Dems position. lol.
    Remember when Siriusly Long used to be all consumed with Liberals targeting the wealthy.
    Isn't it funny how he seems to be now consumed with targeting the wealthy with their trusts,
    tax shelters, and accountants. Only he still ends up alway supporting whatever position the Republcians are in favor of.
    You draw your conclusions.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 07-13-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Havakasha is offline
    It's a realization "that Republicans realize they can't 'win' this stalemate. They only lose badly or lose honorably. The president had painted McConnell and Boehner (especially) into a corner."

    "Yet perhaps the biggest takeaway from McConnell's proposal is that it exposes Republicans leaders for not acting on the deficit and debt when they had the power to do so, and when they had a Democratic president willing to do things that probably won't be seen for a generation. When Obama put $4 trillion in deficit reduction on the table (as long as Republicans added revenues to the mix), they walked away. And when they had Democrats tying spending cuts to the debt increase, they ended up punting."

  8. #8
    SiriuslyLong is offline
    Guru
    SiriuslyLong's Avatar
    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    Let's put this into perspective. If the "Bush Tax Cuts" as most like to call them are "eliminated" then I will pay more than the $51,000 of compulsory taxes that I already pay. I happen to think that $51,000 of compulsory taxes is, well, much more than "fair".

    The point about trusts, tax shelters and tax accountants is that liberals are hypocrites. They use all the loopholes available to them then complain when a corporation does the same all whilst claiming to want to "tax the rich" (for the sole purpose of angering the masses that elect them). It is human nature not to want to pay more taxes. Why be a hypocrite about it? I don't want to pay more - period. I'd like to save it for my children or spend it on the betterment of my family -- Period.

  9. #9
    Havakasha is offline
    Liberals arent hypocrites at all on the tax issue. They support closing loopholes for the rich. Republicans oppose them. Its quite simple.
    Of course its human nature not to want to pay any taxes. But its also completely impossible for a country to function without revenues.
    I was just curious if Ronald Reagan was one of the politicians you admired?

    To show you how extreme you are look at the following poll:

    Most GOP Voters See Need for Revenue Increases
    A new Gallup Poll finds that just 26% of GOP voters think a deal to lift the debt ceiling should consist entirely of spending cuts.
    The vast majority of Republicans believe that at least some tax revenue increases are necessary, which is contrary to the current position of the Republican congressional leadership.
    Nate Silver: "The Republicans in the House of Representatives are extremely conservative on fiscal matters and are significantly out of step with the public as a whole."
    Last edited by Havakasha; 07-14-2011 at 01:05 AM.

  10. #10
    Havakasha is offline
    Did Siriusly long ever comment on this threads article?
    Do you notice that he claims to be non-ideological yet everything he posts is a seriously angry anti-Democratic diatribe?


    The Mother of All No-Brainers
    This is written by a Conservative Republican. Compare this to who Siriuslylong says is
    causing the impending catastrophe over debt default and then decide who is more ideologically biased and wrong on the facts. Read the link below to read the article in its entirety.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/op...ml?ref=opinion


    OP-ED COLUMNIST
    The Mother of All No-Brainers
    By DAVID BROOKS
    Published: July 4, 2011

    The Republicans have changed American politics since they took control of the House of Representatives. They have put spending restraint and debt reduction at the top of the national agenda. They have sparked a discussion on entitlement reform. They have turned a bill to raise the debt limit into an opportunity to put the U.S. on a stable fiscal course.

    Republican leaders have also proved to be effective negotiators. They have been tough and inflexible and forced the Democrats to come to them. The Democrats have agreed to tie budget cuts to the debt ceiling bill. They have agreed not to raise tax rates. They have agreed to a roughly 3-to-1 rate of spending cuts to revenue increases, an astonishing concession.

    Moreover, many important Democrats are open to a truly large budget deal. President Obama has a strong incentive to reach a deal so he can campaign in 2012 as a moderate. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, has talked about supporting a debt reduction measure of $3 trillion or even $4 trillion if the Republicans meet him part way. There are Democrats in the White House and elsewhere who would be willing to accept Medicare cuts if the Republicans would be willing to increase revenues.

    If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred million dollars of revenue increases.

    A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.

    The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary.

    This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers.

    But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

    The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

    The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.

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