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Thread: Internet radio has no barrier to entry

  1. #21
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Facebook is estimated to have $2.2 billion in advertising this year and it is growing at an 80% clip.

    All of the aformentioned radio executives have been trying to make money on the net. As well as thousands of others including Spencer and Demian. There is no barrier. It is limitless. RBR mentioned Pandora's operating cash flow got worse in the 1st quarter this year compared to last year. You have Sirius pull a Pandora on the net and go to some kind of freemium business model with personalized music the margins get killed. Mel is up in the 20s now on margins and shooting for over 40%. Mel has to make it margin friendly, which just doesn't happen with free internet music radio.

    Somebody has to make the model work for it to be a business. Nobody has. With personalized internet radio music it is very likely nobody will. The only chance is supreme exclusive content. Because people pay for that in media. So far I don't see that in these internet radio "businesses".

  2. #22
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    The smartest people in the world, the "radio hall of fame" caliber people of the world, at one point, thought the world was flat.

    Put in the words internet radio stations in Google. The entrants are limitless and nobody has made money. This ain't rocket science. Good luck to everybody reaching for the made up pot of gold.

  3. #23
    SiriusBuzz is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Facebook is estimated to have $2.2 billion in advertising this year and it is growing at an 80% clip.
    Lets assume that is true. Does their ad based model, at that rate, warrant a $100 billion valuation?

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    You have Sirius pull a Pandora on the net and go to some kind of freemium business model with personalized music the margins get killed.
    I never said Sirius XM should go freemium. I don't even think Pandoras freemium model makes sense. I think it has to change (and it soon will) for them to become profitable. Right now it just makes too much sense to use the free version.

    Not only do I not think that Sirius XM should (or will) go freemium but, I think they will continue to raise their rates at an alarming rate and price themselves right out of the market.

    Today my portfolio only consists of about 4% SIRI but the day Howard leaves or they raise their rates again, I am out. I already think it is too expensive for the masses and I have seen my own friends and family dump the service because of the cost. There is a price people are willing to pay for radio and Sirius XM is at the tipping point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Somebody has to make the model work for it to be a business. Nobody has. With personalized internet radio music it is very likely nobody will.
    They said the same thing about selling toiletries and household products online. They said the margins were too low and it would be impossible to sell those kinds of things over the internet and for 10 years companies tried and failed.... and then Soap.com found a way. They did it so successfully that they were purchased by Amazon. It's a really cool story about how they did it too, if you have the time to read about it.
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

  4. #24
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Great comparisons. We go from Google which is close to 100 times Pandora's market cap down to Soap.com's great success selling to Amazon at less than 1/4 of Pandora's market cap. Wonderfully relevant. Take care guys.

  5. #25
    SiriusBuzz is offline
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    It is relevant because they said a company/service like Soap.com could not be viable. All of the industry leaders tried and failed just like you are saying these radio guys are saying there is no way internet radio is a viable business. Times changed and someone solved the problem. How is that not relevant? Their market caps have nothing to do with the story behind the company and where they came from. BTW, Soap.com sold 3 months after launching... $500 mil is pretty solid considering it only took 3 months.

    I can't tell if you are not reading my posts or if you are failing to comprehend what you are reading. Maybe its my fault... I wasn't an English major.

    Take care.
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

  6. #26
    Spencer Osborne is offline
    Muscle.....

    I do have a background in radio. I have spent 6 or 7 years studying and writing about it.

    To say that I have no qualifications to discuss a subject that I have been deeply involved in for years is folly.

    By your reasoning you should not be discussing the matter....your nephew should not have a customized channel on a Pandora-like service, Nicole on the Morning Mash-Up should not be there, Mel Karmazin should have never gotten his first sales job in radio, and Stern should have listened to his father and been never gone inyto radio because he was nothing.

    You still have not addressed the substantial barriers.

    Yes or no muscle....Does it take negotiated deals with the labels to create an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take millions in capital to market an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take thousands of man-hours to create a platform?

    Just because you want to pretend that these barriers do not exist does not mean that they are not there.

    If you want to keep using your nephew as an example of a radio company, call me when he actually creates one. I have my own channels on Slacker, but do not pretend that it is a radio company....Slacker is the radio company.

  7. #27
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Osborne View Post
    Muscle.....

    I do have a background in radio. I have spent 6 or 7 years studying and writing about it.

    To say that I have no qualifications to discuss a subject that I have been deeply involved in for years is folly.

    By your reasoning you should not be discussing the matter....your nephew should not have a customized channel on a Pandora-like service, Nicole on the Morning Mash-Up should not be there, Mel Karmazin should have never gotten his first sales job in radio, and Stern should have listened to his father and been never gone inyto radio because he was nothing.

    You still have not addressed the substantial barriers.

    Yes or no muscle....Does it take negotiated deals with the labels to create an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take millions in capital to market an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take thousands of man-hours to create a platform?

    Just because you want to pretend that these barriers do not exist does not mean that they are not there.

    If you want to keep using your nephew as an example of a radio company, call me when he actually creates one. I have my own channels on Slacker, but do not pretend that it is a radio company....Slacker is the radio company.
    What I said is you have no background in radio. None. You disagree with the absolute best in the industry ie- Karmazin, Smulyan, and Pittman. I am supposed to believe you know better? Come on. Everybody in radio is trying to make money at thios and nobody has in 17 years. You know better. Sure. They say no barrier to entry but you know better. I can't count how many times in those 17 years Mel has spoken at conferences about no barrier to entry for internet radio.

    Let's answer your questions

    Yes or no muscle....Does it take negotiated deals with the labels to create an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take millions in capital to market an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take thousands of man-hours to create a platform?


    No, No and No. Turntable.fm, which the analyst from BTIG Greenfield thinks is going to be huge competition for Pandora has no deals with the labels and is going on a shoestring budget. It has an absolutely huge buzz. Could it beat Pandora in the next couple of years. Of course it can. There are no barriers.


    The fact that my nephew, you, old terrestrial stations and anybody and their grandmother can create internet stations online for free points to fragmentation. A million stations with 100 people listening a piece = 100 million people being fragmented. Nature of internet radio. Blogs as well. There is no limit.

  8. #28
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz View Post
    It is relevant because they said a company/service like Soap.com could not be viable. All of the industry leaders tried and failed just like you are saying these radio guys are saying there is no way internet radio is a viable business. Times changed and someone solved the problem. How is that not relevant? Their market caps have nothing to do with the story behind the company and where they came from. BTW, Soap.com sold 3 months after launching... $500 mil is pretty solid considering it only took 3 months.

    I can't tell if you are not reading my posts or if you are failing to comprehend what you are reading. Maybe its my fault... I wasn't an English major.

    Take care.
    Sorry I think I get what you are saying now. Soap.com sells diapers right? And Pandora does internet radio. I couldn't figure out the relationship until I saw the diaper and internet radio relationship. You are saying they are both in a shit industry?

  9. #29
    SiriusBuzz is offline
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    I take the time to listen and be respectful to answer each and every one of the points you make and even make note when I agree. Yet you continue to treat myself and others like we are trash. I feel sorry for you, narrow-minded is a terrible way to live life.

    In the end, your inability to address my points, constant deflection, and arrogance do nothing but hurt your own credibility.
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

  10. #30
    Spencer Osborne is offline
    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    What I said is you have no background in radio. None. You disagree with the absolute best in the industry ie- Karmazin, Smulyan, and Pittman. I am supposed to believe you know better? Come on. Everybody in radio is trying to make money at thios and nobody has in 17 years. You know better. Sure. They say no barrier to entry but you know better. I can't count how many times in those 17 years Mel has spoken at conferences about no barrier to entry for internet radio.

    Let's answer your questions

    Yes or no muscle....Does it take negotiated deals with the labels to create an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take millions in capital to market an internet radio company?

    Yes or no muscle, does it take thousands of man-hours to create a platform?


    No, No and No. Turntable.fm, which the analyst from BTIG Greenfield thinks is going to be huge competition for Pandora has no deals with the labels and is going on a shoestring budget. It has an absolutely huge buzz. Could it beat Pandora in the next couple of years. Of course it can. There are no barriers.


    The fact that my nephew, you, old terrestrial stations and anybody and their grandmother can create internet stations online for free points to fragmentation. A million stations with 100 people listening a piece = 100 million people being fragmented. Nature of internet radio. Blogs as well. There is no limit.
    Muscle.....

    Turntable will undoubtedly get the attention of the labels....you do realize this don't you.

    You do realize that it takes substantial money to market a business don't you

    You do realize that it takes a ton of time to create a platform don't you?

    Your nephew "creating a station" is not entry into a business.

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