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Thread: The Fallacy that Tax Cuts Stimulate Economies

  1. #1
    Havakasha is offline
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    The Fallacy that Tax Cuts Stimulate Economies

    The fallacy that tax cuts stimulate economies
    bykos

    The tax cuts were supposed to stimulate Ohio's economy and create jobs. But that never happened once the economy tanked. Instead, the changes ended up costing Ohio more than $2 billion a year in lost tax revenue; money that would go a long way toward closing the state's $8 billion budget gap for fiscal year 2012 [...]
    Across the country, taxpayers jarred by cuts to government jobs and services are reassessing the risks and costs of a variety of tax reductions, exemptions and credits, and the ideology that drives them. States cut taxes in hopes of spurring economic growth, but in state after state, it hasn't worked [...]

    A 2008 study by Arizona State University found that that state's structural deficits could be traced to 15 years of tax cuts, mainly income-tax reductions that "were not matched by spending cuts of a commensurate size."

    In Texas, which faces a $27 billion budget deficit over the next two years, about one-third of the shortage stems from a 2006 property tax reduction that was linked to an underperforming business tax.

    In Louisiana, lawmakers essentially passed the largest tax cut in state history by rolling back an income-tax hike for high earners in 2007 and again in 2008.

    Without those tax reductions, Louisiana wouldn't have had a budget deficit in fiscal year 2010, the 2011 deficit would've been 50 percent less and the 2012 deficit of $1.6 billion would be reduced by about one-third.

    While states have destroyed themselves gifting money to their richest, don't forget George W. Bush's contributions at the national level:

    There is no evidence that perpetual tax cuts stimulate any economies. Instead, GOP-fueled cuts end up decimating the kinds of assets that do attract businesses -- an educated workforce, infrastructure, and quality of life features (like parks and cultural facilities) that attract top talent. There's a reason that places like NYC and the SF Bay Area continue to attract new businesses despite their high taxes. A top-notch business environment costs money to maintain.

    Republicans cut taxes in pursuit of their magical pony, decimating state budgets as they prattle on about "fiscal responsibility". The end result? Red ink as far as the eye can see, and economies further in the gutter.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 03-30-2011 at 06:48 PM.

  2. #2
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthre...sh-vs.-Clinton

    An oldie but a goodie!!

    Did I tell you that after paying in excess of $20,000 throughout the year, that I need to pony up another $5000 in April. I feel like I'm the only stupid phuck paying these jackasses. Please, no more taxes for me. I need to save for my kids.

  3. #3
    Havakasha is offline
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    Wow. Must have been a good year for you. What was your income and tax rate (i know you might want privacy)
    With all those tax cuts i was just trying to figure out how much you saved this year.

  4. #4
    Havakasha is offline
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    I always like it when people reply to the exact information in the thread. One can always hope...Tell me what is false about what is said in the article. Thanks.


    The fallacy that tax cuts stimulate economies
    bykos

    The tax cuts were supposed to stimulate Ohio's economy and create jobs. But that never happened once the economy tanked. Instead, the changes ended up costing Ohio more than $2 billion a year in lost tax revenue; money that would go a long way toward closing the state's $8 billion budget gap for fiscal year 2012 [...]
    Across the country, taxpayers jarred by cuts to government jobs and services are reassessing the risks and costs of a variety of tax reductions, exemptions and credits, and the ideology that drives them. States cut taxes in hopes of spurring economic growth, but in state after state, it hasn't worked [...]

    A 2008 study by Arizona State University found that that state's structural deficits could be traced to 15 years of tax cuts, mainly income-tax reductions that "were not matched by spending cuts of a commensurate size."

    In Texas, which faces a $27 billion budget deficit over the next two years, about one-third of the shortage stems from a 2006 property tax reduction that was linked to an underperforming business tax.

    In Louisiana, lawmakers essentially passed the largest tax cut in state history by rolling back an income-tax hike for high earners in 2007 and again in 2008.

    Without those tax reductions, Louisiana wouldn't have had a budget deficit in fiscal year 2010, the 2011 deficit would've been 50 percent less and the 2012 deficit of $1.6 billion would be reduced by about one-third.

    While states have destroyed themselves gifting money to their richest, don't forget George W. Bush's contributions at the national level:

    There is no evidence that perpetual tax cuts stimulate any economies. Instead, GOP-fueled cuts end up decimating the kinds of assets that do attract businesses -- an educated workforce, infrastructure, and quality of life features (like parks and cultural facilities) that attract top talent. There's a reason that places like NYC and the SF Bay Area continue to attract new businesses despite their high taxes. A top-notch business environment costs money to maintain.

    Republicans cut taxes in pursuit of their magical pony, decimating state budgets as they prattle on about "fiscal responsibility". The end result? Red ink as far as the eye can see, and economies further in the gutter.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Well my wife went back to work. The problem is that we're savers, and the Keynesian punish us for that lol. No, really, we have too few deductions; we are in the last leg of our mortgage, and our home equity loans are also low (not that it adds up, at prime less one, there's hardly an interest to deduct). The government rewards you for buying (though I replaced my AC and furnace in 2007 and took that credit then).

    I can tell you exactly how much we saved. It's on a spread sheet. We track EVERY expense and save the surpluses. Suffice to say, I'm saving $5000 less, and in July I'll pony up some $3500 for my property taxes which funny enough have increased >50% since we moved here in the mid 90's (even in light of the 20% decrease in the value of my home from it's all time high in 2006 ish). All that for 1200 sq ft?

    I am going to see "an expert".

  6. #6
    Havakasha is offline
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    So in other words you made more this year (helped along by the Keynesian stimulus. lol) so you are paying more in taxes.
    You are obviously paying less than you would have without all the tax cuts. Yes you need an "expert" it seems.
    Lets not forget the improved stock market (sorry John and of course S&L's favorite economics book writer Peter Schiff who predicted the stock market would have a huge collapse (among other things) in Jan. Lmfao)

    Anything you see as false in the thread i posted?

  7. #7
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    "Anything you see as false in the thread i posted?"

    Only the contrary factual evidence that you refuse to acknowledge. Bush collected more tax receipts than Clinton.

    Yes, I would be paying more yet. The middle class doesn't need unions, we need tax relief!!!! It seems as if the poor get welfare, the rich get tax shelters and the middle class gets phucked!!

    And the stimulus had nothing to do with it. Maybe the bailout of GM and Chrysler did though. My wife is a highly trained professional who has made a career of earning success.
    Last edited by SiriuslyLong; 03-30-2011 at 07:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Havakasha is offline
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    i dealt with the Clinton versus Bush issue a LONG time ago. We obviously disagree.

    Anything in the thread I POSTED TODAY that you see as false? You know--about the states of Texas, Ohio etc.? i quess not because you wont address ANYTHING specific in the article.

    You (the middle class) got tax relief the past 3 years and for some strange reason you refuse to acknowledge it. Beyond weird.

    I noticed you skipped my comment on your FAVORITE economic book writer Peter Schiff. LOL You used to be so willing to discuss him and push his ideas, until i quess he showed himself to be wrong and just another in a long list of pumpers for his own pocketbook.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 03-30-2011 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #9
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    "Yes, I would be paying more yet."

    That's my quote regarding the tax relief I've received. How do I refuse to acknowledge it o' wise one? Are you being arguementitive? Sorry, that's a dumb question. How is that beyond weird? Lloyd, with this kind of dialogue, you are making yourself look foolish. To add, I have admitted to physically seeing the OBAMA tax cut afforded to me through the stimulus bill. Still beyond weird, or have you simply forgotten? Or are you too latched on to your dogmatic vision of politics?

    Yes, I still appreciate Peter Schiff. As I have said in the past, he made one silly comment about the market tanking at the end of January. Hang onto that one Lloyd; I'm soooo impressed lmfao. I will agree that he may act to line his own pockets, just as a union boss does. Give it up. The game is the same for everyone.

    Regarding TX, OH.... I cannot speak to those individual specific situations. It's really that simple.

    What I've showed you is simple addition of tax reciepts collected under Clinton and Bush. Period. You didn't deal with Jack $hit other than saying "it's complicated" or some other dismissive comment. In fact, I'm the one who suggested that the data might need to be inflation adjusted. You simply stated that it was wrong - simple addition of tax receipts collected. One would think our government is competitent in addition????

  10. #10
    Havakasha is offline
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    "the middle class...needs tax relief" I was simply responding to this quote where you seemed to imply the middle class got no tax relief. It sounded like you were denying all the tax relief (i didnt even mention small business tax relief)you received in the past 3 years. Nothing dumb in my question. Nothing foolish. Anyway.... If you were really so concerned with the middle class you wouldnt have fought the
    facts in all the posts Atypical and I have posted about the increasing disparity of wealth in thie U.S. and their harmful affects on this country.

    Its funny but i see you as the more dogmatic one. Oh well. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

    Ah yes Peter Schiff the guy you "appreciate". He has made WAY more than "one silly comment". All one has to do is to look at his website to see what kind of junk he peddles. He does "just as a union boss" you say? Did you have a particular individual in mind that you were comparing him to? LOL.

    One's "jack shit" is another persons proof i quess. I thought i presented an article or articles to answer your question. i will revisit it if you so wish. Somehow i dont think you will believe what i post no matter what. So you "hang onto that one" S&L.

    Of course you cant "speak to those individual specific situations like Texas, Ohio, Lousiana etc. The more specific the information the harder to refute. I will give you lots of time to acknowledge or deny the facts as listed.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 03-30-2011 at 11:20 PM.

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