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  1. Havakasha is offline
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    01-28-2011, 12:08 PM #11
    S&L, that article was TOTAL BS. You're the one who should be ashamed of yourself. Do you usually publish what you admit is some stuff which is "just plain stupid"?
    You say you are a non party affiliate but you certainly don't act like it 90% of the time.
    Stop putting out nonsense on a whole group of people.

    My reference to Sarah Palin and the rest is to the fact that the article you published is an example of the kind of lies they traffic in. But please do tell us how you disagree with Michelle Bachman, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul for starters.

    Steven Pearlstein the writer of the article (about investment by the way) which started this thread happens to be in the center. It was certainly interesting how threatened you got by it. It is a TOTALLY mainstream and centrist point of view. Read it again.

    P.S. Are you for raising of the debt limit? Agree with Bill Gross (another centrist person)?
    Since you're a centrist you must be REALLY concerned at the political game the Republicans are playing with debt limit huh?

    And you must be really offended by these lies told by Boehner and other Republicans about Obama's speech huh?

    Ben Smith (a right leaning centrist) at Politico flags this bit of Republican dissembling from John Boehner (R-OH) during an appearance on CNN last night, where he complained about what the President didn't say in his State of the Union address:

    BOEHNER: Well, they -- they've refused to talk about America exceptionalism. We are different than the rest of the world. Why? Because Americans have -- the country was built on an idea that ordinary people could decide what their government looked like and ordinary people could elect their own leaders.

    And 235 years ago that was a pretty novel idea. And so we are different. Why is our economy still 20 times the size of China's? Because Americans have had their freedom to succeed, the freedom to fail. We've got more innovators, more entrepreneurs, and that is exceptional but you can't get the left to talk about it. They don't -- they reject that notion.

    Did I say "dissemble"? I meant lied.

    Because during the President's State of the Union, besides talking about "what sets us apart as a nation," what "America does better than anyone else," that we're a country where "anything is possible," and that "there isn’t a person here who would trade places with any other nation on Earth," Obama said:

    What’s more, we are the first nation to be founded for the sake of an idea -– the idea that each of us deserves the chance to shape our own destiny.

    ... and:

    America still has the largest, most prosperous economy in the world. No workers -- no workers are more productive than ours. No country has more successful companies, or grants more patents to inventors and entrepreneurs. We’re the home to the world’s best colleges and universities, where more students come to study than any place on Earth.

    The American "exceptionalism" claim, which is pseudo-patriotic code for you're not cheering loud enough, has been enjoying a resurgence in popularity among Republicans since Obama was elected, because, hey, everyone knows that the commie, marxist, socialist Kenyan isn't a "real American."

    But the lie, said by the Speaker of the House on national T.V., usually isn't this blatant.

    The traditional media will be all over it ... just kidding.


    Based on your definition, Centrism must have taken on a WHOLE NEW MEANING.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 01-28-2011 at 01:00 PM.

  2. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    01-28-2011, 12:58 PM #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    S&L, that article was TOTAL BS. You're the one who should be ashamed of yourself. Do you usually publish what you admit is some stuff which is "just plain stupid"?
    You say you are a non party affiliate but you certainly don't act like it 90% of the time.
    Stop putting out nonsense on a whole group of people.

    My reference to Sarah Palin and the rest is to the fact that the article you published is an example of the kind of lies they traffic in. But please do tell us how you disagree with Michelle Bachman, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul for starters.

    Steven Pearlstein the writer of the article (about investment by the way) which started this thread happens to be in the center. It was certainly interesting how threatened you got by it. It is a TOTALLY mainstream and centrist point of view. Read it again.

    P.S. Are you for raising of the debt limit? Agree with Bill Gross (another centrist person)?
    Since you're a centrist you must be REALLY concerned at the political game the Republicans are playing with debt limit huh?

    And you must be really offended by these lies told by Boehner and other Republicans about Obama's speech huh?

    Ben Smith at Politico flags this bit of Republican dissembling from John Boehner (R-OH) during an appearance on CNN last night, where he complained about what the President didn't say in his State of the Union address:

    BOEHNER: Well, they -- they've refused to talk about America exceptionalism. We are different than the rest of the world. Why? Because Americans have -- the country was built on an idea that ordinary people could decide what their government looked like and ordinary people could elect their own leaders.

    And 235 years ago that was a pretty novel idea. And so we are different. Why is our economy still 20 times the size of China's? Because Americans have had their freedom to succeed, the freedom to fail. We've got more innovators, more entrepreneurs, and that is exceptional but you can't get the left to talk about it. They don't -- they reject that notion.

    Did I say "dissemble"? I meant lied.

    Because during the President's State of the Union, besides talking about "what sets us apart as a nation," what "America does better than anyone else," that we're a country where "anything is possible," and that "there isn’t a person here who would trade places with any other nation on Earth," Obama said:

    What’s more, we are the first nation to be founded for the sake of an idea -– the idea that each of us deserves the chance to shape our own destiny.

    ... and:

    America still has the largest, most prosperous economy in the world. No workers -- no workers are more productive than ours. No country has more successful companies, or grants more patents to inventors and entrepreneurs. We’re the home to the world’s best colleges and universities, where more students come to study than any place on Earth.

    The American "exceptionalism" claim, which is pseudo-patriotic code for you're not cheering loud enough, has been enjoying a resurgence in popularity among Republicans since Obama was elected, because, hey, everyone knows that the commie, marxist, socialist Kenyan isn't a "real American."

    But the lie, said by the Speaker of the House on national T.V., usually isn't this blatant.

    The traditional media will be all over it ... just kidding.


    Based on your definition Centrism must have taken on a WHOLE NEW MEANING.
    Editkasha at it again. Too bad I fat fingered my first reply and lost it. I think it has to with the new software as I've never lost so many posts before.

    Anyway, that article was not totally obsured. You find it absurd because it is attempting to define the label you wear, and in an unflattering way. I'm sure if you listed several observations about tea partiers, you would include unflattering remarks (e.g. liars). So let's not be silly. There are solid examples here on these forums that match some of the observations noted.

    Why would I post "just plain stupid" stuff? I'm objective. Why do I need to adulterate someone else's thoughts? I can tell you what I agree with or not. That's just dumb.

    As for the debt ceiling, clearly and unfortunetly , it needs to be raised for the 74th time in 70 years. Pretty lousy record on containing costs don't you think? It has become clear to me that the tea partiers are over blowing the debt; though, it is an issue, and needs to be contained. The US, as the world's leader, needs to retain the full faith of other nations. We are challanging that by not being good stewards of our finances. Not all debt is bad, but I would argue that the government probably isn't well prepared to make excellent decisions on what to invest in. They couldn't keep up with the banks, correct? Recall that I posted an article that noted that for every 1 that hits, there are 10 that don't and we don't hear about it.

    We need to reduce the debt to something that is livable within the global economy. Candidly, just pulling it out of my ass, anything less than 10 trillion probably would calm the concern.

    On the other hand, some of the rhetoric surrounding the debt is staggering. Check this out. If we tried to repay that amount down to zero in 10 years, it would take $44,394 per SECOND for the 10 year period.

    I don't know what is inevitable, but it is hard to beleive it would be good.

  3. Havakasha is offline
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    01-28-2011, 01:05 PM #13
    I know the difference between reasoned intellectual differences and garbage.
    And you hijacked this thread from an important article on Republican and Democratic approaches to investment.
    Pearlstein was simply pointing out the Republican hypocrisy over opposing something they would ordinarily support.


    Boehner? Rand Paul? Michelle Bachman?
    Last edited by Havakasha; 01-28-2011 at 01:07 PM.

  4. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    01-28-2011, 02:51 PM #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    I know the difference between reasoned intellectual differences and garbage.
    And you hijacked this thread from an important article on Republican and Democratic approaches to investment.
    Pearlstein was simply pointing out the Republican hypocrisy over opposing something they would ordinarily support.


    Boehner? Rand Paul? Michelle Bachman?
    Well, one thing should be clear. I like to discuss issues. You like to bash republicans. Have at it. Hate on them all you like. It's a free country.

  5. Havakasha is offline
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    01-28-2011, 03:15 PM #15
    Ive been discussing issues with you for more than a year. Earth to S&L-- we disagree! lol
    You oppose Democratic ideas as much as i oppose Republican ideas. Hate on Liberals all you want.
    Lets move on.

    I've been trying to get you to be honest about your ideological beliefs. So why not tell me how you disagree with Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan for instance? And are you bothered by Republican lies such as those of Boehners about Obama's speech?

  6. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    01-28-2011, 10:50 PM #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Ive been discussing issues with you for more than a year. Earth to S&L-- we disagree! lol
    You oppose Democratic ideas as much as i oppose Republican ideas. Hate on Liberals all you want.
    Lets move on.

    I've been trying to get you to be honest about your ideological beliefs. So why not tell me how you disagree with Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan for instance? And are you bothered by Republican lies such as those of Boehners about Obama's speech?
    What's the position of a non party affiliate? You're the idealogue; bound to liberalism. I'm bound to nothing. I can pick and choose what I like. I've demonstrated open mindedness on a number of issue (see post on national debt), but statism isn't one of them. Sorry. I don't agree with the tea party. I've said that dozen's of times, yet you seem to want me to identify with them time and time again. Why? Plainly speaking, your're a divider. I will agree that we disagree on some things.

  7. Havakasha is offline
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    01-29-2011, 12:42 AM #17
    "you're the ideologue; bound to liberalism. I'm bound to nothing". Oy vey. How self righteous of you.
    I try to be bound to the truth and thats why i get upset by people like Boehner, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, and even you when you spout things that i feel are far from reality.

    Sorry S&L but you are a lot less open minded than you want to believe. Thats exactly why you reacted the way you did to Steven Pearlstein's article on Investment. Goodnight.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 01-29-2011 at 12:55 AM.

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