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Thread: In Big Government We Trust

  1. #21
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    .

    What do you want for Christmas?
    A night alone with my wife would be spectacular if you know what I mean.

    At least the repukes are a check against the statists. You know - yin / yang type thing.

  2. #22
    Atypical is offline
    If you sent a picture of your wife I might be inclined to arrange it - just want to know who I am working for.

    Your recent obsession with that word is bothersome on more than one level.

    It appears you have recently taken it to heart and think it means something that accomodates to your beliefs more than I think it does.

    You overlook, in my judgement, its application to your cherished beliefs.

    Research and reflect on this.
    Last edited by Atypical; 12-06-2010 at 03:02 PM.

  3. #23
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    If you sent a picture of your wife I might be inclined to arrange it - just want to know who I am working for.

    Your recent obsession with that word is bothersome on more than one level.

    It appears you have recently taken it to heart and think it means something that accomodates to your beliefs more than I think it does.

    You overlook, in my judgement, its application to your cherished beliefs.

    Research and reflect on this.
    Thank you for noticing. You can mention word - statism. I think it is the very core of the discussion. The left pull one way, the right the other, no? Statism on one side, unrestrained capitalism (exploitation) on the other. This is an oversimplification and I may be putting words in your mouth, but you don't seem to entrust the good of society to the private sector, and I don't entrust the good of society to the government (heck, they can't even print money correctly lol).

    Maybe this is all to do about nothing. In reading the article by Gibreath, it seems that with fiat money, we can do whatever we want with no reprocussions.

  4. #24
    Atypical is offline
    The essence of any political discussion for me, as shown by the theme in all my posts is, who has the power and how is it being used.

    The abuse of power by anyone or any organization is what I am against - wherever it exists. Obviously, the lower/middle classes have little real power while the connected and wealthy (frequently the same) have most all of it.

    Power used for bullying, stealing, lying and cheating makes me angry. I stand for a level playing field in every human endeavor.

    So, although I rail against business that does all of the above because they have power, (connections) and the means (money) and the interest (greater profits) and the motivation (greed) if you are following me you would expect that I see government obviously subject to the same inducements.

    The signal difference between me and conservatives (ugh), libertarians (double ugh) is that I realize government has a role to play - it is necessary!

    The FAA, or food safety makes the point, right? There are hundreds more reasons for effective, efficient government. I realize that and the others refuse to admit it or lie and say we don't need it. Anyone who is not brain-dead would agree and that's why those two "philosophies" are BULLSHIT.

    What is needed is the same controls on government that should be on business.

    See how simple it is? Just a level field and government has a role to play especially when the less fortunate are involved. That position can be discussed and should be which is why we need differeing points of view to prevent those that may game the system. But that concern is not a reason to avoid helping those that need it. Conservatives and libertarians are known for not having empathy or concern for others. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps they say. Just do it and everything will be fine. I did it, they say. You can too. What they are really saying is, I got mine - you get yours.

    But it doesn’t work that way for everyone. Look at unemployment now. There are NO jobs yet the repukes (yes, that is who they are) voted against further unemployment benefits during the worst economy since the thirties. Anyone who thinks that is right is an a-hole. No empathy, no concern, just IDEOLOGY. F them.

    That's it!!! Unequal power, coupled with wealth, greed and disgusting human tendencies are the problem - everywhere. I am against all of it.

    PS. You said - …but you don't seem to entrust the good of society to the private sector…

    That is not their goal, their reason for being. Business is only to make money. That's just the way it is. Initially, not good or bad. But when greed is a major human motivator, and it is, watch out.
    Last edited by Atypical; 12-07-2010 at 10:30 AM.

  5. #25
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Great post! I completely agree. I would like to explore two things with you. First, what is the solution to this?

    "That's it!!! Unequal power, coupled with wealth, greed and disgusting human tendencies are the problem - everywhere. I am against all of it"

    Second, I too share your disdain for abuse of power. Here is a case study. We had a president named Bush who left a very fowl taste in mouths of voters. As a result of that, the people voted in a "blue sweep" - House, Senate, President. Within the time of 2 years, we have "Obamacare" and "Financial Reform". Some argue they were "desperately" needed. Some argue undue reach by big government. After these 2 years, the people realize that maybe this ISN'T "the change" we really wanted, and undid what they had previously done. Seeing that the democrats had all the POWER to advance THEIR agenda, AND that America has (re)spoken, would you consider these pieces of legislation an abuse of power?

    I tend to think they were. The democrats had a window to advance their agenda, and the repukes couldn't get a word in edgewise. They were basically helpless. The dems took full advantage - exploited their position of power. "I won" I think Obama said. And now we sit here wondering why the repukes are so "driven" by their agenda.

  6. #26
    Atypical is offline
    No, sorry Mr. Long. Can't agree. (and you say you agree - you haven't shown that in past posts)

    I am an honors (summa cum disgustus) graduate of the Bill Maher school of politics and social studies. This means that I know that the majority of Americans are indifferent, ignorant, stupid and hostile to really knowing what is necessary to understand the world and how it works. Additionally, what they think about, say health care, (remember my urging you to read Wendell Potter,) is almost irrelevant to the degree of necessity or lack when trying to understand this issue.

    (I have written on this very subject numerous times here. In the future please read. I don't enjoy typing that much. Thanks).

    Anyway, why they vote the way they do and what happens when people vote is relatively unimportant. It is very easy to think something is true based on faulty information or feelings. There are probably four or five reasons why repukes gained seats recently which may not be the conventional wisdom.

    "I tend to think they were. The democrats had a window to advance their agenda, and the repukes couldn't get a word in edgewise. They were basically helpless. The dems took full advantage - exploited their position of power. "I won" I think Obama said. And now we sit here wondering why the repukes are so "driven" by their agenda."

    Sorry to say, you are seriously misinformed. There is no truth to what you believe. It is the opposite. There have been posts here re this as well. You unfortunately believe information you got from manipulative sources.
    Last edited by Atypical; 12-07-2010 at 11:28 AM.

  7. #27
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    At least it took you a while to claim more knowing of truth than most others. I'll consider that progress.

    Yes, I agree that there are many variables to why the repukes gained seats. Again, I am thankful that there is now a check in the system.

    We appear to have come to an agreement to disagree.

  8. #28
    Havakasha is offline
    Have you actually been paying to attention to what has happened in the past 2 years? It doesnt seem so.
    Are you aware of a thing called the fillibuster that the Republicans used a record number of times? "The Republicans were basically HELPLESS." Wow. That is clearly not true.

    For example even in terms of the Dems health care bill. It was clearly a compromise and didnt have a Public Option which most Dems wanted. They got a final bill that experts agree was in line with what Republicans had agreed to only 10 years earlier. Bob Dole supported the final bill and he was considered a fairly mainstream Conservative Republican.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 12-07-2010 at 12:07 PM.

  9. #29
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Have you actually been paying to attention to what has happened in the past 2 years? It doesnt seem so.
    Are you aware of a thing called the fillibuster that the Republicans used a record number of times? "The Republicans were basically HELPLESS." Wow. That is clearly not true.

    For example even in terms of the Dems health care bill. It was clearly a compromise and didnt have a Public Option which most Dems wanted. They got a final bill that experts agree was in line with what Republicans had agreed to only 10 years earlier. Bob Dole supported the final bill and he was considered a fairly mainstream Conservative Republican.
    All I can tell you TODAY, is your rival party wants to repeal it, and seemingly in a BIG WAY. Check it out lol.

    http://www.google.com/search?source=...aq=1&oq=repeal

  10. #30
    Havakasha is offline
    Doesnt refute what i just said. What you said was a COMPLETE exaggeration. "Republicans were basically helpless". NONSENSE.

    As far as the health care bill and other legislation, the right wing of the Republican party has become extreme.

    Do you know who John Danforth is?

    Former Senator John Danforth Says GOP May Be “Beyond Redemption”
    NOVEMBER 27, 2010, 9:57 PMET • 71 COMMENTS »
    Ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Richard Lugar of Indiana has been the one Republican who understands the importance of ratifying the START treaty with Russia, but he’s come under fire for his position by his fellow right-wingers. To former Missouri Senator John Danforth, this signals that the party may have gone “far overboard” and may be “beyond redemption.”

    “If Dick Lugar,” said John C. Danforth, a former Republican senator from Missouri, “having served five terms in the U.S. Senate and being the most respected person in the Senate and the leading authority on foreign policy, is seriously challenged by anybody in the Republican Party, we have gone so far overboard that we are beyond redemption.”

    Mr. Danforth, who was first elected the same year as Mr. Lugar, added, “I’m glad Lugar’s there and I’m not.”
    Last edited by Havakasha; 12-07-2010 at 12:28 PM.

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