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Thread: Bill Gross Speaks Out

  1. #1
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Bill Gross Speaks Out

    Whoa!

    Bill Gross slams politicians and QE2 'Ponzi scheme'

    With mid-term elections and the second round of quantitative easing looming in the US next week, Pimco chief Bill Gross says that voters and investors are going to 'get what they deserve.'

    In his latest investment outlook, the manager of the world's biggest fund says he agrees with commentators who say the US has 'two bankrupt political parties which are bankrupting the country'.

    'Democrat or Republican, Elephant or Donkey, nothing much ever seems to change,' Gross writes. 'Each party has shown it can add hundreds of billions of dollars to the national debt with little to show for it, or move our military from one country to the next chasing phantoms instead of focusing on more serious problems back home.'

    He continues:

    'Will the absence of a mosque within several hundred yards of Ground Zero solve our deficit crisis? Is Christine O’Donnell really a witch? Did Meg Whitman employ an illegal maid? Who cares! We are being conned, folks; Democrats and Republicans alike. What have you really heard from either party that addresses America’s future instead of its prurient overnight fascination with scandal? Shame on them and of course, shame on us. We’re getting what we deserve. Vote NO in November – no to both parties. Vote NO to a two-party system that trades promises for dollars and hope for power, and leaves the American people high and dry.'

    Furthermore, on Wednesday, the day after the elections, the government will announce its renewed commitment to quantitative easing - or 'writing checks' as Pimco founder Gross calls it.

    'Not only investors, but the American people should recognize that Wednesday, even more than Tuesday, represents a critical inflection point in determining our future prosperity,' Gross says.

    'If QEII cannot reflate capital markets, if it can’t produce 2% inflation and an assumed reduction of unemployment rates back towards historical levels, then it will be a long, painful slog back to prosperity,' he adds.

    He says the US is now in a 'liquidity trap,' where interest rates or trillions of dollars of QE2 asset purchases may not stimulate borrowing or lending because consumer demand is just not there.

    'Escaping from a liquidity trap may be impossible, much like light trapped in a black hole. Just ask Japan. Ben Bernanke, however, will try – it is, to be honest, all he can do. He can’t raise or lower taxes, he can’t direct a fiscal thrust of infrastructure spending, he can’t change our educational system, he can’t force the Chinese to revalue their currency – it is all he can do, and as he proceeds, the dual questions of “will it work” and “will it create a bond market bubble” will be answered. We at PIMCO are not sure.'

    Gross also returns to a parallel he made almost two years ago, when he described the entire US economy as Ponzi scheme, saying that QE2 is an extension of this and that there has 'never been a Ponzi scheme so brazen'.

    'Check writing in the trillions is not a bondholder’s friend; it is in fact inflationary, and, if truth be told, somewhat of a Ponzi scheme. Public debt, actually, has always had a Ponzi-like characteristic. Granted, the US has, at times, paid down its national debt, but there was always the assumption that as long as creditors could be found to roll over existing loans – and buy new ones – the game could keep going forever.


    Continued.

  2. #2
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    'Now, however, with growth in doubt, it seems that the Fed has taken Charles Ponzi one step further. Instead of simply paying for maturing debt with receipts from financial sector creditors – banks, insurance companies, surplus reserve nations and investment managers, to name the most significant – the Fed has joined the party itself. Rather than orchestrating the game from on high, it has jumped into the pond with the other swimmers. One and one-half trillion in checks were written in 2009, and trillions more lie ahead. The Fed, in effect, is telling the markets not to worry about our fiscal deficits, it will be the buyer of first and perhaps last resort. There is no need – as with Charles Ponzi – to find an increasing amount of future gullibles, they will just write the check themselves. I ask you: Has there ever been a Ponzi scheme so brazen? There has not.'

    In honour of Uncle Sam, Gross describes QE2 as a 'Sammy scheme.'

    'It is a Sammy scheme – you and I, and the politicians that we elect every two years – deserve all the blame.'


    http://www.citywire.co.uk/global/bil...test-news-list

  3. #3
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Video on Schiff on QE2, national surpluses, taxing the rich.....

    http://www.europac.net/media

    He makes too much sense. I know some won't understand it.
    Last edited by SiriuslyLong; 10-27-2010 at 11:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Atypical is offline
    Watched it. Whew!

    He wants lower taxes and smaller govt. As someone here said - same old, same old. BUT, not one word about the Homeland Security's unnecessary existance; not one word about the neverending "war on drugs"; not one word about the bs war on terrorism; not one word about the bloated defense budget; not one word about corporate subsidies; not one word about hedge fund income taxed at 15%; not one word about corporate regulations that are necessary to prevent GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE EXPENSE like the GULF catastrophe costs.

    He claims he pays high taxes. Except for corporate income taxes and business costs which the company pays not him (oh yeah, it's HIS money he'll say) low income people pay the same taxes. What portion are they to a low income person compared to his salary. He said if his taxes were higher would he still work as hard. Plain PUERILE talk. Buffet would'nt say that and hasn't! Corporate taxes in this country are LOW bexause of subsidies, loopholes and off-shoring of profits Not one word about those points either. That info has been posted on this site already. Doesn't anyone read and remember?

    Perhaps his other suggestions have some merit - perhaps not. But the bulk of his message is I want no taxes on me and my company. The rich are just fine. Leave us alone. I want even more and if you disagree you're a socialist/marxist pervert.

    Typical right-wing corporatist crap. THE RICH SHOULD INHERIT THE EARTH - SCREW EVERONE ELSE!
    WE DESERVE IT, GODDAMN IT! WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU! MORE IMPORTANT. LISTEN TO US AND DO WHAT WE ASK, OR YOU'LL BE SORRY. THE COUNTRY WILL DIE, YOU'LL ALL DIE AND WHO WILL BE THE CAUSE. THOSE THAT MAKE LESS THAN WE DO. AND YOU'RE ALL A-HOLES BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER. THAT'S WHY WE'RE RICH AND YOU'RE NOT.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-27-2010 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    Watched it. Whew!

    He wants lower taxes and smaller govt. As someone here said - same old, same old. BUT, not one word about the Homeland Security's unnecessary existance; not one word about the bloated defense budget; not one word about corporate subsidies; not one word about hedge fund income taxed at 15%; not one word about corporate reulations that are necessary to prevent GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE EXPENSE like the GULF catastrophe costs.

    He claims he pays high taxes. Except for income taxes and business costs which the company pays not him (oh yeah, it's HIS money he'll say) low income people pay the same taxes. What portion are they to a low income person compared to his salary. He said if his taxes were higher would he still work as hard. Plain PUERILE talk. Buffert would not say that and hasn't!

    Perhaps his other suggestions have some merit - perhaps not. But the bulk of his message is I want no taxes on me and my company. The rich are just fine. Leave us alone. I want even more and if you disagree your a socialist/marxist.

    Typical right-wing crap. THE RICH SHOULD INHERIT THE EARTH - SCREW EVERONE ELSE!
    Now aren't you being a little dramatic? You're clearly on to the reason I posted the link. Lloyd holds in high esteem Robini and Krugman because they "called" the recession. So did Schiff. Does Schiff earn Lloyd's esteem? You deem it "right wing crap" and I think you're judging it politically. How about economically? Or are the two joined at the hip?

    Keep in mind, his discussion of "taxing the rich" was brought on by the suggestion that it is the solution to the fiscal irresponsibility of our government.

    Do you believe Homeland Security is unnecessary?

  6. #6
    Atypical is offline
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    Now aren't you being a little dramatic? You're clearly on to the reason I posted the link. Lloyd holds in high esteem Robini and Krugman because they "called" the recession. So did Schiff. Does Schiff earn Lloyd's esteem? You deem it "right wing crap" and I think you're judging it politically. How about economically? Or are the two joined at the hip?

    Keep in mind, his discussion of "taxing the rich" was brought on by the suggestion that it is the solution to the fiscal irresponsibility of our government.

    Do you believe Homeland Security is unnecessary?
    Yes. The hysteria of 9/11 caused an excessive emotional reaction that resulted in the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, unconstitutional spying, the illegal invasion of Iraq and illegal torture that resulted. Informed law enforcement said that HS would just add another layer of unnecessary government. You know about that, right?

    My post also referred to the economic points he made. I said there may be some merit to them. And yes, economic theory has become part of right-wing religious world. Christians preach that god wants you to become rich; that god loves the US and it's "free markets" and that these are necessary to have a well-run christian country. Religion, conservatism, politics and economics have been combined and are now one big scary ideology.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-27-2010 at 01:47 PM.

  7. #7
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    Yes. The hysteria of 9/11 caused an excessive emotional reaction that resulted in the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, unconstitutional spying, the Iraq illegal invasion and illegal torture. Informed law enforcement said that HS would just add another layer of unnecessary government. You know about that, right?

    My post also referred to the economic points he made. I said there may be some merit to them. And yes, economic theory has become part of right-wing religious world. Christians preach that god wants you to become rich; that god loves the US and it's "free markets" and that these are necessary to have a well-run christian country. Religion, conservatism, politics and economics have been combined and are now one big scary ideology.
    I totally agree with you on Homeland Security. Imagine that? You can name of number of agencies created by reaction. It's almost as if the standing President MUST create something in response to a large event.

    For the record, you are messaging with an agnostic, but I have to take issue with your assertion that "Christians preach that God wants you to become rich; that God loves the US and its' "free markets"...." On second thought, you're being sarcastic, right?

    Speaking of religion, have you ever read The Shack? I think that's what it's called. I recently read a piece of fiction, The War After Armageddon. It wasn't terribly good, but the premise was a holy war - Christians vs. Islam. The US abandons the Constitution and becomes a Christian nation. Ugly thought for sure.

  8. #8
    Atypical is offline
    "It's almost as if the standing President MUST create something in response to a large event".

    That's what people want. Action. Not thoughtful analysis. That's for weaklings. Conservatives would be the first to criticize a lack of a military response before any other consideration if that were one of the possibilities. You have heard the taunt, "liberal pansies who would rather sing kumbaya than KICK ASS. Rigid authoritarianism is a main ingredient in conservative ideology.

    "For the record, you are messaging with an agnostic, but I have to take issue with your assertion that "Christians preach that God wants you to become rich; that God loves the US and its' "free markets"...." On second thought, you're being sarcastic, right?"

    No, deadly serious. And I have to say again, and will continue to say, you are not exposed to what is for you the "other side'. You don't read so you don't know what these people are saying, preaching and working toward.

    I can provide a list of books on this subject and many others all of which I've read. I hope I don't have to say that I DON"T believe everything I read from those I tend to agree with. I look for documented sources and am cautious about assertions without objective support.

    I don't read fiction. I would rather read something that actually happened than something made up. There is too much going on that requires comprehensive research to understand. That's what important to me.

    "The US abandons the Constitution and becomes a Christian nation. Ugly thought for sure".

    That's exactly what they want. Christianists want to remake this country into what they consider heaven. They have been working toward it for decades. Look at the current crowd of crazy, insane religious fanatics running for office. They are the greatest threat to our country - not adherents to Islam - although I am wary of their goals also. Many of the details of that religion are dangerous and bizzarre.

    I found a review of The Shack. The reviewer called it theological fiction. That's a good description because god IS non-existant.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-27-2010 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Atypical is offline
    TEACHER ARRESTED IN NEW YORK - A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a calculator.. At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. 'Al-Gebra is a problem for us', the Attorney General said. 'They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values .' They use secret code names like 'X' and 'Y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'There are 3 sides to every triangle'. When asked to comment on the arrest, former president Bush said, 'If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, he would have given us more fingers and toes.' White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the President.
    ___________________________
    And conservatives thought it was wonderful. It had been shown that a god-fearing man, our past president, had with god's help saved our country again.

    Should have put this in Humor. Some thought I meant it seriously. Oh well, I guess I did partially.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-27-2010 at 06:26 PM.

  10. #10
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    "It's almost as if the standing President MUST create something in response to a large event".

    That's what people want. Action. Not thoughtful analysis. That's for weaklings. Conservatives would be the first to criticize a lack of a military response before any other consideration if that were one of the possibilities. You have heard the taunt, "liberal pansies who would rather sing kumbaya than KICK ASS. Rigid authoritarianism is a main ingredient in conservative ideology.

    "For the record, you are messaging with an agnostic, but I have to take issue with your assertion that "Christians preach that God wants you to become rich; that God loves the US and its' "free markets"...." On second thought, you're being sarcastic, right?"

    No, deadly serious. And I have to say again, and will continue to say, you are not exposed to what is for you the "other side'. You don't read so you don't know what these people are saying, preaching and working toward.

    I can provide a list of books on this subject and many others all of which I've read. I hope I don't have to say that I DON"T believe everything I read from those I tend to agree with. I look for documented sources and am cautious about assertions without objective support.

    I don't read fiction. I would rather read something that actually happened than something made up. There is too much going on that requires comprehensive research to understand. That's what important to me.

    "The US abandons the Constitution and becomes a Christian nation. Ugly thought for sure".

    That's exactly what they want. Christianists want to remake this country into what they consider heaven. They have been working toward it for decades. Look at the current crowd of crazy, insane religious fanatics running for office. They are the greatest threat to our country - not adherents to Islam - although I am wary of their goals also. Many of the details of that religion are dangerous and bizzarre.

    I found a review of The Shack. The reviewer called it theological fiction. That's a good description because god IS non-existant.
    You are one serious dude, almost extreme. You know, it's > 4 PM, go have yourself a beer. There is time for that and all your other interests.

    Don't say I don't read, or I'm not exposed. That's bullshit judgement on your behalf made from posts on a message board. Yes, you may be more knowledgable on some topics than me , but to say I don't read is just.. well.. arrogant. Obviously, I read a hell of lot more than many sheeple in the US today.

    You oversimplify conservatives to the extent the conservatives oversimplify liberals (e.g. working toward socialism), and I think you are generalizing the Tea Party as typical conservatives. I am economically "conservative" yet you and I seem to share many thoughts.

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