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  1. Havakasha is offline
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    Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,358
    10-21-2010, 04:28 PM #11
    S&L. You seem to be unwilling to admit that greed, incompetence and corruption happen in business just as in govt. People are the same the world over. Here is a recent example of what we have been talking about. Maybe you read it before..

    Bankers Ignored Signs of Foreclosure Trouble

    Published: Thursday, 14 Oct 2010 | 6:04 AM ET Text Size
    By: Eric Dash and Nelson D. Schwartz
    The New York Times

    At JPMorgan Chase, they were derided as “Burger King kids” — walk-in hires who were so inexperienced they barely knew what a mortgage was.


    At Citigroup [C 4.101 -0.149 (-3.51%) ] and GMAC, dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s on home foreclosures was outsourced to frazzled workers who sometimes tossed the paperwork into the garbage.

    And at Litton Loan Servicing, an arm of Goldman Sachs [GS 153.32 -1.41 (-0.91%) ], employees processed foreclosure documents so quickly that they barely had time to see what they were signing.

    “I don’t know the ins and outs of the loan,” a Litton employee said in a deposition last year. “I’m not a loan officer.”

    As the furor grows over lenders’ efforts to sidestep legal rules in their zeal to reclaim homes from delinquent borrowers, these and other banks insist that they have been overwhelmed by the housing collapse.

    But interviews with bank employees, executives and federal regulators suggest that this mess was years in the making and came as little surprise to industry insiders and government officials. The issue gained new urgency on Wednesday, when all 50 state attorneys general announced that they would investigate foreclosure practices. That news came on the same day that JPMorgan Chase [JPM 38.8229 -1.0171 (-2.55%) ] acknowledged that it had not used the nation’s largest electronic mortgage tracking system, MERS, since 2008.

    That system has been faulted for losing documents and other sloppy practices.

    The root of today’s problems goes back to the boom years, when home prices were soaring and banks pursued profit while paying less attention to the business of mortgage servicing, or collecting and processing monthly payments from homeowners.

    Banks spent billions of dollars in the good times to build vast mortgage machines that made new loans, bundled them into securities and sold those investments worldwide. Lowly servicing became an afterthought. Even after the housing bubble began to burst, many of these operations languished with inadequate staffing and outmoded technology, despite warnings from regulators.

    When borrowers began to default in droves, banks found themselves in a never-ending game of catch-up, unable to devote enough manpower to modify, or ease the terms of, loans to millions of customers on the verge of losing their homes. Now banks are ill-equipped to deal the foreclosure process.

    “We waited and waited and waited for wide-scale loan modifications,” said Sheila C. Bair, the chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, one of the first government officials to call on the industry to take action. “They never owned up to all the problems leading to the mortgage crisis. They have always downplayed it.”

    In recent weeks, revelations that mortgage servicers failed to accurately document the seizure and sale of tens of thousands of homes have caused a public uproar and prompted lenders like Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and Ally Bank, which is owned by GMAC, to halt foreclosures in many states.


    Even before the political outcry, many of the banks shifted employees into their mortgage servicing units and beefed up hiring. Wells Fargo [WFC 24.615 -1.195 (-4.63%) ], for instance, has nearly doubled the number of workers in its mortgage modification unit over the last year, to about 17,000, while Citigroup added some 2,000 employees since 2007, bringing the total to 5,000.

    “We believe we responded appropriately to staff up to meet the increased volume,” said Mark Rodgers, a spokesman for Citigroup.

    Some industry executives add that they’re committed to helping homeowners but concede they were slow to ramp up. “In hindsight, we were all slow to jump on the issue,” said Michael J. Heid, co-president of at Wells Fargo Home Mortgage. “When you think about what it costs to add 10,000 people, that is a substantial investment in time and money along with the computers, training and system changes involved.”

    Other officials say as foreclosures were beginning to spike as early as 2007, no one could have imagined how rapidly they would reach their current level. About 11.5 percent of borrowers are in default today, up from 5.7 percent from two years earlier.

    “The systems were not ever that great to begin with, but you didn’t have that much strain on them,” said Jim Miller, who previously oversaw the mortgage servicing units for troubled borrowers at Citigroup, Chase and Capitol One. “I don’t think anybody anticipated this thing getting as bad as it did.”

    Almost overnight, what had been a factorylike business that relied on workers with high school educations to process monthly payments needed to come up with a custom-made operation that could solve the problems of individual homeowners. Gregory Hebner, the president of the MOS Group, a California loan modification company that works closely with service companies, likened it to transforming McDonald’s into a gourmet eatery. “You are already in chase mode, and you never catch up,” he said.

    To make matters worse, the banks had few financial incentives to invest in their servicing operations, several former executives said. A mortgage generates an annual fee equal to only about 0.25 percent of the loan’s total value, or about $500 a year on a typical $200,000 mortgage. That revenue evaporates once a loan becomes delinquent, while the cost of a foreclosure can easily reach $2,500 and devour the meager profits generated from handling healthy loans.

    “Investment in people, training, and technology — all that costs them a lot of money, and they have no incentive to staff up,” said Taj Bindra, who oversaw Washington Mutual’s large mortgage servicing unit from 2004 to 2006.

    And even when banks did begin hiring to deal with the avalanche of defaults, they often turned to workers with minimal qualifications or work experience, employees a former JPMorgan executive characterized as the “Burger King kids.” In many cases, the banks outsourced their foreclosure operations to law firms like that of David J. Stern, of Florida, which served clients like Citigroup, GMAC and others. Mr. Stern hired outsourcing firms in Guam and the Philippines to help.

    The result was chaos, said Tammie Lou Kapusta, a former employee of Mr. Stern’s who was deposed by the Florida attorney general’s office last month. “The girls would come out on the floor not knowing what they were doing,” she said. “Mortgages would get placed in different files. They would get thrown out. There was just no real organization when it came to the original documents.”

    Citigroup and GMAC say they are no longer giving any new work to Mr. Stern’s firm.

    In some cases, even steps that were supposed to ease the situation, like the federal program aimed at helping homeowners modify their mortgages to reduce what they owed, had actually contributed to the mess. Loan servicing companies complain that bureaucratic requirements are constantly changed by Washington, forcing them to overhaul an already byzantine process that involves nearly 250 steps.

    A version of this article appeared in print on October 14, 2010, on page A1 of the New York edition.

    This story originally appeared in the The New York Times

  2. Atypical is offline
    10-21-2010, 04:53 PM #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    You seem as cynical about profit making companies as I do about the government.
    If you have ever really read my posts (okay, I know, that was stupid) you would have seen that I am concerned about all wrongdoing wherever it occurs. But as I said earlier today government has a purpose and that is all I defend.

    And sorry to say, (I don't intend on being argumentative) conservatives/libertarians are lying a-holes and incredibly stupid when they say that Obama is a socialist, (he's a corporatist) that goverment is always THE problem, that the military should get everything it wants and if you disagree you are a weak-kneed liberal (or pansy). that liberals are a danger to the country, that corporations are always wonderful stewards of the economy and we NEED THEM THE WAY THEY ARE WITHOUT ANY REGULATIONS, that all regulations are bad, that god is necessary to be good and we need more religion especially in the schools, that liberals like people getting benefits for nothing and for not being responsible, that Democrats are always tax and spend, that raising taxes is ALWAYS BAD, that god will provide and that's why we don't need safety nets, that the Constitution says what conservatives say it says, that schoolbooks should only explain how wonderful this country is and never show what we have done that is monstrous, that anyone who says we have done wrong is a communist, socialist, nazi lying liberal. There is much more that I could say.

    Conservative simple-minded ideas*, feel-good ideas, rejection of nuance and complexity, hatred toward the other, any other, authoritarianism, religious fanaticism, and an obeisance to authority and the powerful are truly the most dangerous threats to this country. When one looks hard, without ideology, at O'Donnell, Angle, Palin, Miller, and other of the so-called Tea Party candidates, it is frightening that anyone has any respect for their alleged competency or capability. The other conservatives across the country are little better as are some democrats. Is this what we have become? A country that likes buffoons? Gives them money and support. Asks for nothing better. Accepts racists, haters, those without concern for others, rigid ideologues with no embarassment about their ignorance. Two of them (Miller/Angle) have said they will no longer answer questions from the press. Miller said today he likes what East Germany did to control their emigration. (They shot them). Another enjoys WWII memories dressed in a Waffen SS uniform. He thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Angle who has said she only wanted to be asked questions that she wanted to answer. Johnson in WI who said this election is "not about details" when questioned about his plans. Paladino who sends emails with women having sex with an animal (among other messages) is a proud hater of gays and others. He doesn't hide it.

    Anyone cool with those strategies?

    *"A recent poll by CBS News and the New York Times provided a scary picture of Tea Party supporters. Here's what it found:

    92% believe President Obama is leading to country to Socialism.
    59% either believe or don't know if President Obama was born in another country.
    24% believe it is sometimes justified to take violent action against the government.
    66% doubt the impact of global warming.
    64% believe resident Obama has increased taxes. (He cut them for 95% of Americans.)
    66% have a favorable view of Sarah Palin.
    59% have a favorable view of Glenn Beck.
    57% have a favorable view of George W. Bush."

    That, in no way, means liberals, progressives, Democrats should have it their way, that their ideas are always the best. Any country, any group needs responsible input from all.

    If any who read this think that's what I meant by what I said above, you are who I was referring to when I wrote it.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-23-2010 at 12:53 PM.

  3. Atypical is offline
    10-21-2010, 05:14 PM #13
    Lloyd

    PMs need...

  4. Atypical is offline
    10-21-2010, 07:26 PM #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    Again, many of the locations I've been through here in the US have decent safety programs. I'm uncomfortable naming them here, but I've been through literally 100's plants here in the US. Some indeed are armpits, but most practice a decent level of safety.

    I do see your point re globally. As a generalization, China is like USA, but in the 50's. And I'm sure Chile is behind too.

    Just get the profit, get the money. goddam it get the money!!

    You seem as cynical about profit making companies as I do about the government.
    Hey SL.

    How do you feel about this?

    Google Dodges Billions in Taxes

    Google may not exactly be the good corporate citizen it says it is: The company hides billions in tax revenue from the U.S. government by moving its foreign profits through subsidiaries in Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda. It's part of a tactic many companies engage in called "transfer pricing" that costs the U.S. government up to $60 billion per year. As a consequence, Google pays an effective overseas tax rate of 2.4 percent, despite the fact that many of the countries in which it operates have corporate tax rates over 20 percent. The company is able to pull off the tax dodge by allocating income to tax havens and attributing expenses to higher-tax countries. Google’s strategy is perfectly legal, and, in fact, popular: Facebook is preparing a similar structure.

    Read it at Bloomberg
    _______________________

    This is why those that focus on "those people who don't pay taxes" or "those people who don't want to work, they just want to get benefits for doing nothing". or corporations hire people - leave them alone and NEVER regulate them - it's unamerican, or capitalism is the best system there is so don't touch it, it's perfect - are ignoring the forest for the trees and have obviously listened/read (to) right-wing crap and believe that's what the real problems are. They're NOT!

    This problem of tax avoidance and other sneaky corporate ethical lapses are the point. But we tolerate them in favor of focussing on the little guy - because that's what the wealthy and powerful want and have convinced us is right. And most have bought it.

    Frightening.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-23-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  5. Atypical is offline
    10-21-2010, 07:47 PM #15

    Oh, By The Way...

    O’Donnell Defends First Amendment IQ


    Rob Carr / AP Photo Christine O’Donnell, the Tea Party star running for senator of Delaware, says she knows what the First Amendment is and remains confident she can achieve a surprise win (The Daily Beast’s Election Oracle puts her odds of victory at just 10 percent.) O’Donnell elicited laughter from the audience of Tuesday night’s debate when she asked her Democratic opponent, Chris Coons, to show her where in the constitution it mandates the separation of church and state. In interview with ABC News, she says she was asking for the exact phrase “separation of church and state,” which does not appear in the constitution, and that she thinks she actually showed her opponent’s ignorance of the constitution and that the media has inverted the story. She also regrets running her infamous TV ad that opens with “I am not a witch.” She wanted to put a rest to questions about her remark she “dabbled in witchcraft” but it backfired.

    _________________________
    She didn't know that the first amendment says the govt shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion and that means separation of church and state. Whew.

    That's right, folks. Conservatives NEVER make mistakes, never lie, never not know something, are always right and everyone else is wrong. Only they know the truth.

    That happens because they respect nothing but their own ideology. It's enough for them. They are proud of their ignorance. It means they are different, but in a "good way".

    Yes, others do it too, but never about something so basic and important. Only ideologues. She obviously does not respect the idea contained in the amendment so there was no need to know it.

    This is what religious fanatics are all about.

    This is a candidate for the senate. Anyone like that?

    Bonus content.

    Rep Grijalva just reported some hate mail sent with swastikas and some kind of powder. Consider the killers of doctors that provided abortions, the hate mail sent to progressive sites (e.g.,Daily Kos), the hate that candidates spew in current races (e.g.,Tancredo), the hate that Faux News promulgates, the negative votes that the republicans cast that says America you don't matter. Possible solutions don't matter. We don't even want to discuss or consider solutions. What we believe is all that matters. We just want the power! Conservative candidates that mispronounce opponents names in an attempt to belittle them. There is much more that could be said.

    I have read many messages of hate containing threats of murder and other violence from conservatives on sites that have content they don't like. I have never seen one that says if you don't support Obama, support Pelosi, or vote for a bill that helps people I will come after you. It doesn't happen. Why? (If any are interested in a Republican's view on conservative hate/authoritarianism, read Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean. If you see yourself in the book see a psychologist immediately.)

    If anyone can provide examples of threatening Democrat or progressive behavior please provide details.
    Last edited by Atypical; 10-23-2010 at 12:55 PM.

  6. Atypical is offline
    10-25-2010, 01:03 PM #16

    Vote Conservative And This May Be What You'll Get.

    Tea Party Candidate Thinks People Should Fend for Themselves Against Salmonella Outbreaks

    This post first appeared on Washington Monthly.

    Over the summer, there was a major egg recall, following at least 1,300 salmonella-related illnesses spanning 22 states over the summer. The Washington Post reported in August that the outbreak highlights the need to fix “the holes in the country’s food safety net.”

    That truth was hard to deny, and even harder to ignore. As we learned more about the story, we saw that the salmonella problems stemmed from an uninspected producer in Iowa, with a record of health, safety, labor, and other violations that go back 20 years. The need for better regulations and enforcement has been obvious for decades, but conservative, anti-regulatory lawmakers have consistently put industry profits above public safety.


    With this in mind, Zaid Jilani flags a story that’s so astounding, it’s almost hard to believe.

    Although there are a diverse set of political beliefs in the United States, there are currently two major political philosophies clashing for control of the American body politic. One, the progressive view, believes in a society where a democratically elected government plays an active role in helping all people achieve the American Dream, no matter who they are. The other, the conservative vision, believes in the on-your-own-society that favors the wealthy, big corporations, and other privileged sectors of society.

    GOP House candidate Jesse Kelly, who is running in Arizona’s 8th congressional district, championed this second vision a week ago at a campaign rally hosted by the Pima County Tea Party Patriots. During a question-and-answer period, a voter asked Kelly about the recent salmonella outbreak, which led to recall of more than half a billion eggs.

    The voter asked if Kelly, if elected, would he help pass a law that would allow the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and other government agencies to shut down companies that have too many safety violations, such as the companies that allowed millions of eggs that sickened people to be sold to the public. Kelly responded that he doesn’t “believe what we’re lacking right now is more regulations on companies,” complaining that “you could probably spit on the grass and get arrested by the federal government by now.” When the voter followed up by asking, “Who’s protecting us?” Kelly responded, “It’s our job to protect ourselves.” The exasperated voter asked once more, “Am I supposed to go to a chicken farmer and say I’d like you to close down because all of your birds are half dead?” Kelly once more answered, “There’s a new thing that comes along every day. But I know this: Every part of our economy that is regulated by the government doesn’t have fewer disasters, it has more.”

    If you’re skeptical a congressional candidate could really be this crazy, all of this was captured on video.

    It really never occurred to me that right-wing Republicans would start running on a pro-salmonella platform, but Jesse Kelly and his Tea Party allies have a surprisingly twisted worldview. Kelly seriously seems to believe that laws to enforce food safety are unnecessary, and may ultimately make matters worse. Just let the free market work its magic, and everything will be fine.

    It’s hard to overstate how radical this is. A lack of regulation is literally putting Americans who eat food in the hospital with life-threatening illnesses, but instead of wanting to improve safeguards, zealots like Kelly insist the FDA should stand aside and let us fend for ourselves. Usually, when an outbreak occurs, reasonable people notice the need for public safety and reject the anti-government crusade. This congressional candidate — who stands a fairly strong chance of winning — is doubling down. Jesse Kelly actually supports the notion of Americans playing Russian Roulette every time they go to the grocery store.

    A few years ago, Rick Perlstein even coined a phrase to capture this ideology: “E. Coli Conservatism.”

    I can only assume the vast majority of the country has no idea what they’re about the elect.

  7. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    10-25-2010, 05:43 PM #17
    "S&L. You seem to be unwilling to admit that greed, incompetence and corruption happen in business just as in govt."

    That's silly. I most certainly agree that corruption exists within both government and business. Where we differ is where the majority lies, and why it matters.

  8. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    10-25-2010, 05:48 PM #18

    Conservative, Liberal or "other"

    If you don't know, have a look at this.

    http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/othe...beral-beliefs/

    Where do you fit? Take the quiz.

    http://typology.people-press.org/typology/

    I ended up with the typology of an "enterpriser"
    Last edited by SiriuslyLong; 10-25-2010 at 05:56 PM.

  9. Atypical is offline
    10-26-2010, 12:24 PM #19
    The Pew ranking - moderately liberal.

    The student descriptions were, perhaps necessarily so, too tight. Most people are a combination of sometimes conflicting interests. Some "liberals" can have some grotesque leanings, like allowing creationism to be part of a public school curriculum.

    When is your trip to the land of Kurosawa?

  10. SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    10-26-2010, 03:04 PM #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    The Pew ranking - moderately liberal.

    The student descriptions were, perhaps necessarily so, too tight. Most people are a combination of sometimes conflicting interests. Some "liberals" can have some grotesque leanings, like allowing creationism to be part of a public school curriculum.

    When is your trip to the land of Kurosawa?
    I agree. The questions lacked subtlety (however one spells that).

    I return the day before Thanksgiving leaving about a week prior. Whooooppeeeee.

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