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Thread: This Is The Truth. Force Yourself To Read All Of It.

  1. #11
    Atypical is offline
    I do the same???

    Apparently you have never read my posts (you really don't read) clearly explaining how I decide important issues. And that I'm NEVER finished analyzing. And that I have standards (I posted them) which showed how I learn and support various ideas. And that I have criticized and posted others that have criticized things I once supported.

    I have read you for a long time. You are gainfully employed, you travel, have a family, earn a nice salary, watch Fox and have a large number of conservarive talking points at the ready.

    You are like a stone skipping across a pond barely touching the water...skimming...just like your superficial ideas.

    I get it. You don't have time for this intellectual stuff. That's okay, really.

    Then don't talk like you know anything because you don't. Just factoids, just talking points, just what you heard but didn't have time to really analyze. (assuming you wanted to which I doubt) But it sounded good, didn't it? Which is how most people decide whether something is true and whether to believe it. Not rigorous analysis. Too time consuming, BORING and HARD.

    I apparently have more time, more of an interest, less responsibility than you do so I am at an advantage. That's just how it is. Doesn't make you a bad guy. Just don't try to con others and yourself by trying to sound authoritative. You're not, and I'm not on many things either. Most are not knowledgeable about anything important besides their own existance. And that sometimes is also not true.

    And by the way your comment "you have your ideas, I have mine" means nothing. Opinions, ideas, thoughts, viewpoints, and theories must have evidence to support them. Opinions are not equal. Merely asserting something while someone else does the same does not mean both points or either one has any merit. Only objective evidence decides - nothing else.

    What's for dinner?
    Last edited by Atypical; 09-01-2010 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #12
    Atypical is offline

    From George Carlin

    "Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They've long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don't want . . . they don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that . . . that doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they're getting ****ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 ****in' years ago. They don't want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your ****in' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They'll get it . . . they'll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this ****in' place. It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn't matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don't give a **** about you. They don't give a **** about you . . . they don't give a **** about you. They don't care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It's called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . ."

  3. #13
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    I do the same???

    Apparently you have never read my posts (you really don't read) clearly explaining how I decide important issues. And that I'm NEVER finished analyzing. And that I have standards (I posted them) which showed how I learn and support various ideas. And that I have criticized and posted others that have criticized things I once supported.

    I have read you for a long time. You are gainfully employed, you travel, have a family, earn a nice salary, watch Fox and have a large number of conservarive talking points at the ready.

    You are like a stone skipping across a pond barely touching the water...skimming...just like your superficial ideas.

    I get it. You don't have time for this intellectual stuff. That's okay, really.

    Then don't talk like you know anything because you don't. Just factoids, just talking points, just what you heard but didn't have time to really analyze. (assuming you wanted to which I doubt) But it sounded good, didn't it? Which is how most people decide whether something is true and whether to believe it. Not rigorous analysis. Too time consuming, BORING and HARD.

    I apparently have more time, more of an interest, less responsibility than you do so I am at an advantage. That's just how it is. Doesn't make you a bad guy. Just don't try to con others and yourself by trying to sound authoritative. You're not, and I'm not on many things either. Most are not knowledgeable about anything important besides their own existance. And that sometimes is also not true.

    And by the way your comment "you have your ideas, I have mine" means nothing. Opinions, ideas, thoughts, viewpoints, and theories must have evidence to support them. Opinions are not equal. Merely asserting something while someone else does the same does not mean both points or either one has any merit. Only objective evidence decides - nothing else.

    What's for dinner?
    That is the most pompous post I've read on this site. Seriously. You are clearly full of your yourself. Skimming across the water?? Ok, I hereby declare that you are intellectually superior. Feel better?

    Look, you and I have exchanged a limited number of posts. I haven't seen you change postion, nor "criticize things you once supported". I post my opinion and back it up to the best of my ability, and personally, I think the facts have been pretty good (regarding the ongoing discussion of the governments involvement in home ownership).

    Sorry if I left you with the impression of authoritative. My wife would laugh at that. Thanks for studying me though. I have plenty of time and plenty of interest; what is needed is something engaging and comprehensive. As for your advantage, I cannot speak to it. For all I know, you are a family man, with a decent job, and plenty of time to study your beliefs.

    Fox News is entertainment though I do find it interesting how you and Havakasha view opposing points as talking points. I speculate that it must be some kind of tactic. Of course, you have no talking points.

    Dinner, haven't decided yet. I have some great tomatoes and peppers from the backyard so I'm thinking an omlet with mozzarella cheese, but it is now 7:30 so I may opt for something lighter. I hope you enjoy your dinner.

  4. #14
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    "Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They've long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don't want . . . they don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that . . . that doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they're getting ****ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 ****in' years ago. They don't want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your ****in' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They'll get it . . . they'll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this ****in' place. It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn't matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don't give a **** about you. They don't give a **** about you . . . they don't give a **** about you. They don't care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It's called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . ."
    I love George Carlin. Clearly though he is speaking about government, not "the rich" that you seem to loathe. Either way, I don't care. By the way, what is the age we can start to collect SS? I can't speak to you, but I've been paying for 23 years, and the outlook is not clear.

  5. #15
    Atypical is offline
    A careful read clearly shows he is talking about corporations who are working with and against politicians to get what they want. The early wording does confuse perhaps because a few words may have been left out of this copy.

    What I "loathe" is an individual or an organization that cares only about profit/money/power and cares nothing for those who are not working with it for the same outcome.

    There is now an huge accumulation of wealth/power in fewer hands than for the last eighty years as my initial post relates. This arrogance and concentration of power and the death and misery it can cause are massive and frightening, e.g., Gulf catastrophe.

    This is a huge problem but...never mind.

  6. #16
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Thanks for the summary. I read a book on Jack Welsh and GE. The author's point was that under his leadership, GE basically raped the environment and ruined people's lives (amongst other things) for earnings. So I am aware of your point.

    In another thread, I talk a little about the political system being one problem of our government. I think we relate here. There are lobbeists and their are politicians - both trying to get what they want, and likely not for someone's best interest.

    I can honestly say that the concentration of wealth doesn't bother me as much. I often reflect on my own career wondering why I'm not pulling down $500,000 a year. Instead, I worry about the last check I wrote bouncing (no joke) Simply stated, I'm not that driven; though I do believe in the "pay it forward" concept. My father simply wanted to provide me with a little better chance than he had, and he succeeded. I look to do the same for my children, and hope they do the same with theirs.

  7. #17
    Atypical is offline
    This is how our government works. Only for corporations who have power and money. Not for us. Never for us. George Carlin, an entertainer, knew, but few of us believe - and if and when we do realize it, it will be too late. It may already be.


    http://act.bravenewfilms.org/go/275?...084.1pS92g&t=5

  8. #18
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    "This is how our government works. Only for corporations who have power and money"

    That's quite an authoritative statement. On some levels I understand your point, but on other's I have to debate. So do you feel empathy for the politician who gets bought? Do you feel empathy for the politician that works toward re-election versus and avoiding real problems to get elected? Personally, I find them just as culpable as the corporations especially in the sense that their decision making cannot be independent - their decisions are founded from the democratic or republican party. Secondly, I'm employed by a corporation - a pretty big one too. This corporation provides me a decent salary, generous benefits, a nice 401k match, educational assistance and an emphasis on safety. In fact, as a sales person, I am keenly aware that I'm more likely to die from a traffic accident than an accident in the plant. Those are the stats. Every month we spend an hour on safety. The plant does it weekly.

    When it comes to the government, I pay them - city, county, state, federal. I pay them. I also pay social security and medicare. What do I get in return? Huge deficit, a broke SS system, war.......... And you and I also get eminent domain.

    It's a two way street. The politicians have power and money too. In fact, they have more in that they cannot get fired, and are typically "hired" based on a geographical policital majority. They are untouchable.

    I don't have the answers, but do appreciate the debate.

  9. #19
    Atypical is offline
    If you truly want objective information from me I will be happy to provide it but will react negatively to talking points. I don't have time now.

    Thanks.

  10. #20
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    If you truly want objective information from me I will be happy to provide it but will react negatively to talking points. I don't have time now.

    Thanks.
    Nice comeback to a genuine post. I've had enough of your talking points "big corporations rule the world..." At this point, I don't have the time for you.

    Thanks

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