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Thread: 2nd Depression was Averted Due to Bailouts:Study

  1. #11
    Havakasha is offline
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    Recession happened under Bush and because of Bush policies. Its well known and well documented. You have turned the buck stops here on its head.

    1. Stock market and housing bubbles stoked by Bush and fed policies (run by
    Republican Alan Greenspan) which EXPLODED and helped to bring our economy down. Bush's single largest policy prescription was HOME OWNERSHIP for
    everyone.
    2. Tax cuts for rich that helped to explode the deficit.
    3. Iraq war which helped to explode the deficit.
    4. 6 years of Republcan control of Presidency, Senate and House during which time nothing
    was done about Health care costs, Insurance costs, Energy costs etc. Try naming anything they
    did to solve any of the major problems of our time.
    5. Republican opposition to any kind of regulation surrounding derivatives which help bring the financial system to its knees. AIG, Lehman's Brothers etc. etc.
    8. Recession started in 2007. Last time i checked the President was Bush.

    Werent Republicans once the party of personal responsibility? I quess you and Fox news decided that doesnt apply anymore.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 08-07-2010 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #12
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Recession happened under Bush and because of Bush policies. Its well known and well documented. You have turned the buck stops here on its head.

    1. Stock market and housing bubbles stoked by Bush and fed policies (run by
    Republican Alan Greenspan) which EXPLODED and helped to bring our economy down. Bush's single largest policy prescription was HOME OWNERSHIP for
    everyone.
    2. Tax cuts for rich that helped to explode the deficit.
    3. Iraq war which helped to explode the deficit.
    4. 6 years of Republcan control of Presidency, Senate and House during which time nothing
    was done about Health care costs, Insurance costs, Energy costs etc. Try naming anything they
    did to solve any of the major problems of our time.
    5. Republican opposition to any kind of regulation surrounding derivatives which help bring the financial system to its knees. AIG, Lehman's Brothers etc. etc.
    8. Recession started in 2007. Last time i checked the President was Bush.

    Werent Republicans once the party of personal responsibility? I quess you and Fox news decided that doesnt apply anymore.
    The only valid point is 3. Recall in previous discussion that Bush wanted to look into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and was rebuked by none other than Barney Frank. To point 1, here is some history.

    "In 1977, the Carter Administration and the United States Congress passed and signed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, or CRA. The CRA provided that federally insured banks, as a quid pro quo for being covered in the FDIC agreed to “help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations.” Essentially what the CRA was intended to do was to end the practice of redlining, where banks were willing to take deposits in certain areas but refuse lending in those same communities. That is to require banks to provide the same services to all who are equally situated and equally qualified in the communities in which they operate. Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 ("CRA"), 12 U.S.C. 2901."

    "In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the CRA of 1977.[10] Because of the increased ratio requirements, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans. Shareholders also pressured Fannie Mae to maintain its record profits."

    Lastly, "On September 10, 2003, the Bush Administration recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis. Under the plan, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae. The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set capital-reserve requirements for the company and to determine whether the company is adequately managing the risks of its portfolios. The New York Times reported that the plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is broken. The Times also reported Democratic opposition to Bush's plan: "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee."

    Insert Fannie Mae 2Q2010 results here - $1.2 B loss down from $12 B LOL

    Another mistake by Bush for sure - to be rubuffed by Frank. He should have rammed it down his throat. Bush was RIGHT LOL.

    What the phuck more do you want? Are these facts bull$hit?

    The rest of your points are democratic talking points. I'd rather talk about Michelle Obama on her 8th vacation this year LMFAO. IN SPAIN none the less. Jeeze, can't vacation here and throw some of our dollars our way??? LMFAO. Pathetic.
    Last edited by SiriuslyLong; 08-07-2010 at 08:45 PM.

  3. #13
    Havakasha is offline
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    If you think only #3 is valid? Jeez than you are more of a lost cause than i ever thought possible. We obviously live on different planets.


    So tax cuts for the rich didnt explode the deficit? Even Republican Alan Greenspan has been upset by Republicans attempt to keep it going and he supported it originally.

  4. #14
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    If you think only #3 is valid? Jeez than you are more of a lost cause than i ever thought possible. We obviously live on different planets.


    So tax cuts for the rich didnt explode the deficit? Even Republican Alan Greenspan has been upset by Republicans attempt to keep it going and he supported it originally.
    I don't give a $hit about the rich. Am I to assume "no comment" on the facts above? Is this an avoidance thing? You don't want to about it?

    So, if I concede "tax cuts for the rich", will you address the facts above?

  5. #15
    Havakasha is offline
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    The subprime mortgage lending problem was MUCH more complex than fannie and freddie. That is another of the Republicans talking points. Blame a Democratic constituency while your protect your own (large mortgage companies). Much like your ignorance on the facts of who controlled all branches of govt under Bush you are ignorant of the political angle that Bush and the Republcans were pushing concerning fannie and freddie.

    "under Greenspan the fed failed to pop the real estate and stock market bubbles and failed to rein in subprime mortgage lending...."

    Oh i think i forgot to mention the SURGE in medical entitlements under Bush
    (which were never addressed) as well as contributing to the problems in our economy.

  6. #16
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    The subprime mortgage lending problem was MUCH more complex than fannie and freddie. That is another of the Republicans talking points. Blame a Democratic constituency while your protect your own (large mortgage companies). Much like your ignorance on the facts of who controlled all branches of govt under Bush you are ignorant of the political angle that Bush and the Republcans were pushing concerning fannie and freddie.

    "under Greenspan the fed failed to pop the real estate and stock market bubbles and failed to rein in subprime mortgage lending...."

    Oh i think i forgot to mention the SURGE in medical entitlements under Bush
    (which were never addressed) as well as contributing to the problems in our economy.
    So here I offer up a concession, and this is what I get back? History is history as you like to suggest.

    And you're a damn fool if you think I care about "protecting" mortgage companies. Complete idiot. Remember my anology about matches? It's simple stuff, way past democrat vs. republican.

    Listen, Fannie and Freddie are government first, democrat / republican second. Here I go again offering up some peace. Will you take it? Can you accept that the governments role in home ownership is THE key reason for the recession?

  7. #17
    Havakasha is offline
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    Love your way of giving concessions. LOL

    "a damn fool."

    Thought you might enjoy this article on fannie and freddie. How is that for a concession and an interesting discussion of how private business and govt can mess things up.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/business/08gret.html

    i can accept that govt played a big role in the housing mess. Yes. Can you accept that private business also played a big role?
    Last edited by Havakasha; 08-10-2010 at 09:39 AM.

  8. #18
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Love your way of giving concessions. LOL

    "a complete fool."

    Thought you might enjoy this article on fannie and freddie. How is that for a concession and an interesting discussion of how private business and govt can mess things up.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/business/08gret.html

    i can accept that govt played a big role in the housing mess. Yes. Can you accept that private business also played a big role?
    Thank you for the article. Yes, government did play a big role, and yes private business was along for the ride. But again, I challange you on WHO was the enabler?

  9. #19
    Havakasha is offline
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    Once again i have to remind you there are no simple answers. But there are these additional bits of information,"during the housing boom, Fannie and Freddie faced political pressure (Bush administration is being referred to here) and competetive pressure from Wall Street to back ever-riskier loans. When the market went bust, defaults and foreclosures piled up..."
    "Over the next year, lawmakers plan to review the nation's mortgage-lending system and consider a potential replacement for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
    Last edited by Havakasha; 08-10-2010 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #20
    Havakasha is offline
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    I dont seem to remember S&L complaining about all the money Bush spent on vacations during his Presidency and boy did he vacation a lot. S&L once again you have proved yourself to be an absolute hypocrite and an obvious partisan no matter how hard you try to indicate you are open to the facts.

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...t/blog-342631/

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