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Thread: Hopefully Obama can do what he did for IL for the USA

  1. #1
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Hopefully Obama can do what he did for IL for the USA

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

    IL is worse that CA! They may be the first state to default.

    Just a painful observation. The three states in the worst shape are CA, IL, and NY. Maybe Havakasha can tell us what these 3 states have in common?
    Last edited by SiriuslyLong; 07-03-2010 at 07:55 AM.

  2. #2
    candleman is offline
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    This is a problem that is affecting most communities and states now. Here in North Carolina, they didn't issue income tax refunds for several months. Imagine that! If I don't pay my taxes on time, I pay a penalty. But, it doesn't work the same way in reverse.....

    The only answer is to cut spending. If people don't want to pay increased taxes, we have no choice but to cut fire and police services, curtail recreational opportunities for our children, cut senior citizen programs and do things like that.

    It wouldn't matter who the President is now. These problems have been building for a long time. It seems like California is constantly in trouble.

    My town Kitty Hawk, has cut mosquito spraying, and cut the number of hours that lifegaurds are on duty on the beach, along with freezing wages and other programs were just eliminated. I would rather pay a bit more in taxes and have those programs stay intact. But, I know I'm in the minority.

  3. #3
    Havakasha is offline
    S&L is letting all his true colors show. FInally he is been smoked out of the closet it seems. One distortion after another.
    He seems to have forgotten South Carolina, Mississipi, etc. etc.
    He sees to have forgotten that if McCain and Palin were in charge right now
    thinks would certainly be much worse.
    He seems to forget who brought us the 2nd worst recession ever for the US.
    Oh yeah i forgot he only wants to talk about the future. Doesnt seem to understand the need for studying history even if it has only occurred as little as 2 years ago.
    As such he seems to forget that the problems in New York, California etc. didnt start yesterday.
    They have been building for years (Bush/Cheney) under Republican administrations as well as
    Democrat. The Governors of New York and California were both Republicans as I recall. Pataki
    was in office for 12 years and then there is Schwarzenegger. How long has he been in office?
    And of course he refuses to use his brain to understand any of the nuances of those particular economies. Just generalized claptrap.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 07-04-2010 at 11:31 AM.

  4. #4
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    S&L is letting all his true colors show. FInally he is been smoked out of the closet it seems. One distortion after another.
    He seems to have forgotten South Carolina, Mississipi, etc. etc.
    He sees to have forgotten that if McCain and Palin were in charge right now
    thinks would certainly be much worse.
    He seems to forget who brought us the 2nd worst recession ever for the US.
    Oh yeah i forgot he only wants to talk about the future. Doesnt seem to understand the need for studying history even if it has only occurred as little as 2 years ago.
    As such he seems to forget that the problems in New York, California etc. didnt start yesterday.
    They have been building for years (Bush/Cheney) under Republican administrations as well as
    Democrat. The Governors of New York and California were both Republicans as I recall. Pataki
    was in office for 12 years and then there is Schwarzenegger. How long has he been in office?
    And of course he refuses to use his brain to understand any of the nuances of those particular economies. Just generalized claptrap.
    You are soooo full of $hit. How long have the States of CA, IL and NY been blue? Try FOREVER. Go ahead and fall on "it's because of Bush / Cheney" rhetoric.

    As far as your rhetoric about things would be worse under McCain.... PURE SPECULATION. Anyone could argue without substance that things would have better.....................

    Have a great day.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    This is a problem that is affecting most communities and states now. Here in North Carolina, they didn't issue income tax refunds for several months. Imagine that! If I don't pay my taxes on time, I pay a penalty. But, it doesn't work the same way in reverse.....

    The only answer is to cut spending. If people don't want to pay increased taxes, we have no choice but to cut fire and police services, curtail recreational opportunities for our children, cut senior citizen programs and do things like that.

    It wouldn't matter who the President is now. These problems have been building for a long time. It seems like California is constantly in trouble.

    My town Kitty Hawk, has cut mosquito spraying, and cut the number of hours that lifegaurds are on duty on the beach, along with freezing wages and other programs were just eliminated. I would rather pay a bit more in taxes and have those programs stay intact. But, I know I'm in the minority.
    Candleman - as a businessman, you know there are only two things: revenues and expenses, but in the world of Havakasha, there are revenues, expenses and government lol. That's how we are where we are today!! Bad model.

    Yeap, here in Ann Arbor, MI, I read yesterday that they are turning off street lights, eliminating fall leaf pickup and a couple firefighter were laid off. Leaf pickup is one direct service I truly appreciate with 13 mature trees dumping their biomass on my yard. With a 1000 square foot vegetable garden, I can mulch some, but there is simply too much. Now the city is telling me I have to bag them or put them into the compost cart (I can fill that in one minute lol). All this, and yet there are a bunch of new signs welcoming people to our city and letting them know where certainl things are (State Street area this way - no $hit Sherlock).

    Sadly, you are correct; expenses must be curtailed. As I explained, or tried to explain, to Havakasha, Governments need to downsize and become more efficient squeezing more from each tax dollar than ever. It's a new world. I too though am afraid that this fiscal austerity will indeed cause our economy to further slow, but it is necessary as next up is ch9 for governments all across the nation, and that will be far worse than austerity.

  6. #6
    candleman is offline
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    I spend a lot of time thinking about how we got to this point. Where are we WASTING the money and where are we spending it wisely.

    I think we all come up with different answers to that question.

    For me, I see it this way and I know others can't agree. But, I think a good long converstation about these things is the only way to ever actually solve the problem.

    I see huge waste in too many government employees not working as hard as they would be expected to work if they were in the private sector. When I go into government offices, I don't see people working feverishly. I don't hear a lot of noise, nor do I see employees working at such a pace that they are bumping into each other. And yet when I go into a small private business, that's exactly what I see. I step into a bank and I see tellers that make 10 bucks an hour and they are really earning it. I go into a bakery or restaurant and I see the cooking staff sweating it out and getting paid 10 or 12 dollars an hour. When I go into the DMV or the water department, I see folks sitting around and earning 35 to 45 thousand a year with good benefits. I think we need to expect more from the people that work for us.

    That would be just a start, but we have to start someplace. I say we start by expecting government employees to put more effort into thier work. If they did, we may not need so many of them and in return we could cut budgets and not have to raise taxes.

  7. #7
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    I spend a lot of time thinking about how we got to this point. Where are we WASTING the money and where are we spending it wisely.

    I think we all come up with different answers to that question.

    For me, I see it this way and I know others can't agree. But, I think a good long converstation about these things is the only way to ever actually solve the problem.

    I see huge waste in too many government employees not working as hard as they would be expected to work if they were in the private sector. When I go into government offices, I don't see people working feverishly. I don't hear a lot of noise, nor do I see employees working at such a pace that they are bumping into each other. And yet when I go into a small private business, that's exactly what I see. I step into a bank and I see tellers that make 10 bucks an hour and they are really earning it. I go into a bakery or restaurant and I see the cooking staff sweating it out and getting paid 10 or 12 dollars an hour. When I go into the DMV or the water department, I see folks sitting around and earning 35 to 45 thousand a year with good benefits. I think we need to expect more from the people that work for us.

    That would be just a start, but we have to start someplace. I say we start by expecting government employees to put more effort into thier work. If they did, we may not need so many of them and in return we could cut budgets and not have to raise taxes.
    Amen to that candleman! Our buddy Lloyd will be the dissenter, but I fully agree with your observation. Bottom line is that our government isn't really accountable to anyone. Your shop needs to post a profit. You need to keep your balance sheet clean or you may not get the money you need for expansion. You're accountable. I know such a statement is inflammatory, but our government is not accountable to us anyway. Maybe to their political party, but certainly not us. If they were, wouldn't the results today be much different? Social security might not be facing insolvency. Medicare might not be rife with fraud. Our national debt might be managable. There might have been no housing bubble (due to governmental agencies artificially allowing everyone home ownership).

    Did you see how I didn't mention democrat or republican? Enter Lloyd!

  8. #8
    candleman is offline
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    SL,
    I'm curious about how things are playing out politically in Ann Arbor. I seem to remember it as a pretty independant place. Lots of bright people with many different opinions.

    Does the TEA Party seem to have a foothold there?

    I ask because I have a little concern about the throw the bums out ideaology of that group. We seem to have elected many new people to Congress over the last 12 years and yet it didn't seem to make any difference.

    Here in North Carolina, in local elections, many respected people lost seats on County Commissions, Boards of Education and City Councils. In the end the only thing that changed is that we have a lot of people with ZERO experience and understanding of funding, making some really bad decisions.

    I have no idea what the answers are SL. We all know the problems, I'd just like to find some solutions that will actually work.

  9. #9
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    SL,
    I'm curious about how things are playing out politically in Ann Arbor. I seem to remember it as a pretty independant place. Lots of bright people with many different opinions.

    Does the TEA Party seem to have a foothold there?

    I ask because I have a little concern about the throw the bums out ideaology of that group. We seem to have elected many new people to Congress over the last 12 years and yet it didn't seem to make any difference.

    Here in North Carolina, in local elections, many respected people lost seats on County Commissions, Boards of Education and City Councils. In the end the only thing that changed is that we have a lot of people with ZERO experience and understanding of funding, making some really bad decisions.

    I have no idea what the answers are SL. We all know the problems, I'd just like to find some solutions that will actually work.
    The Ann Arbor city council is 100% represented by democrats, and is fairly well supported by the community. August 3 is the primary, and I'm pretty sure the status quo will stay. I personally haven't seen any Tea Party events around here. It would likely end up in a shouting match as liberals would amass and heckle the $hit out of them, and show up in more numbers.

    Yes, Ann Arbor is still described as 6 square miles surrounded by reality. I've been here 20 years now; so I'm kind of numb to it. Get the kids to school, go shopping, take the kids to practice, cut the grass................

    The University is obviously a stabilizing factor for our community. We lost a Pfizer reseach center around two years ago. It was a blow, but things seem to have weathered well.

    The problem as I see it is party politics. I'll be candid. I voted for Bush twice, and I wanted him out dearly. It was his alignment with the religous right that alienated me. But if you are republican, that comes with it. I did indeed welcome Obama, but since have soured on him (that shouldn't be new news lol). We need someone in that position that will indeed bring these two parties together for mutually workable solutions, but that may be impossible as if you take on the others ideas, your own party may turn on you.

    I don't have the solution either, but do have ideas. Whatever our government has in mind, the overidding goal should be to make the most people happy. Why happy? Because it's better than being pissed off -- and a lot of people are. For example, if our government would say for households making less that $200,000, you get a 6 month income tax break -- do you think most Americans would be encouraged?? As far as I'm concerned, that's instant savings.

  10. #10
    candleman is offline
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    Party politics is a HUGE problem! It's gotten to the point that good hearted people just don't want to run anymore. The hatred that comes from each party is enough to turn the best and brightest completely off to running for office.

    I've been elected as an independant 4 times to local office. I would never run again. At least not in this climate. Just 10 years ago, people would agree to disagree and then get on with it. Now, some people are so set in thier ways that they have lost the ability to compromise and come to conclusions that are good for the majority. That attitude is not good for America.

    Democrats seem to want to give away the farm and not raise taxes to do it. Republicans seem to want to spend, spend, spend, on war and not raise taxes to do it. None of it makes any sense whatsoever.

    OK, I think we agree that we sort of know what the problem is. It's obvious that niether one of us has the answer either! But, I sure like talking about it...LOL

    Chuck

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