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  1. #1
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Social Justice

    http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion...ment-programs/

    Perfect article. Enjoy it Havakasha and Atypical (provided you're still around).

  2. #2
    candleman is offline
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    Excellent article SL!

    This is what I would call the New Middle. He isn't bitter about paying taxes. He just doesn't like supporting lazy people. He understands charity and the fact that being charitable isn't the ticket to Heaven, like some on the Right seem to believe. He's not asking for unreal job protections or a free ride for able bodied people like the Left seem to want.

    I particularly like that he isn't yelling about moral problems in our country like others do. In other words he is taking a conservative approach about money, but not touching on Gay Rights, Gun Control, Abortion, Environmental issues, or other ideas that cloud up the discussion about being fiscally responsible.

    Maybe it's not really the New Middle..... but more like the good ole middle. The middle has been lost over the last 30 years. Those of us in the middle just want to go to work, feed our kids, breath fresh air, live crime free, and enjoy our life.

    It's fitting that this would come from the Ann Arbor press. When I was a college student I loved going to Ann Arbor. It was a wide open free thinking place. A wild party town too!!!

  3. #3
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    Excellent article SL!

    This is what I would call the New Middle. He isn't bitter about paying taxes. He just doesn't like supporting lazy people. He understands charity and the fact that being charitable isn't the ticket to Heaven, like some on the Right seem to believe. He's not asking for unreal job protections or a free ride for able bodied people like the Left seem to want.

    I particularly like that he isn't yelling about moral problems in our country like others do. In other words he is taking a conservative approach about money, but not touching on Gay Rights, Gun Control, Abortion, Environmental issues, or other ideas that cloud up the discussion about being fiscally responsible.

    Maybe it's not really the New Middle..... but more like the good ole middle. The middle has been lost over the last 30 years. Those of us in the middle just want to go to work, feed our kids, breath fresh air, live crime free, and enjoy our life.

    It's fitting that this would come from the Ann Arbor press. When I was a college student I loved going to Ann Arbor. It was a wide open free thinking place. A wild party town too!!!
    Thanks for the feedback Candleman. I would love to hear Lloyd's opinon too.

    I think you and I are pretty much on the same page about the role of government and the role of the public. I don't mind paying taxes; I just think a lot of what we pay gets wasted, and that bothers me.

    There is one good government program I fully support. Here in Michigan, a soda or beer can or bottle is worth 10 cents. That was great legislation. Not only does it add to the common good of society, but it creates jobs (someone made those do it yourself return machines and someone tends to them).

    When I go down to your neck of the woods, it's a little disconcerting to simply throw all those beer cans away LOL.

  4. #4
    Havakasha is offline
    Put me down also for not minding to pay my fair share of taxes.
    Is there waste in Govt? Absolutely. We just probably disagree about
    where to start looking first to find and cut out that waste.
    And by the way there is ALWAYS going to be waste NO MATTER WHO
    is running the govt. Unfortunately that is just human nature. As is greed
    and incompetence.

    What i really find disoncerting is this constant barage of negativity about everything to
    do with govt. It is completely simplistic and it solves nothing, and interestingly enough the first people to cry for competent govt (think John and the oil spill.lol) are the same people who cry the loudest and work the hardest to defang and destroy govt's necessary role in our society. We need Govt; it does some really good things for us and it messes up at other times. Why not spend our energies trying to improve it? Wow, now there is a novel idea huh?
    Last edited by Havakasha; 06-15-2010 at 12:24 PM.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Put me down also for not minding to pay my fair share of taxes.
    Is there waste in Govt? Absolutely. We just probably disagree about
    where to start looking first to find and cut out that waste.
    And by the way there is ALWAYS going to be waste NO MATTER WHO
    is running the govt. Unfortunately that is just human nature. As is greed
    and incompetence.

    What i really find disoncerting is this constant barage of negativity about everything to
    do with govt. It is completely simplistic and it solves nothing, and interestingly enough the first people to cry for competent govt (think John and the oil spill.lol) are the same people who cry the loudest and work the hardest to defang and destroy govt's necessary role in our society. We need Govt; it does some really good things for us and it messes up at other times. Why not spend our energies trying to improve it? Wow, now there is a novel idea huh?
    Havakasha, you know that you freely note that there will always be waste, yet you don't seem to mind that our government is getting bigger and more far reaching. It is as if you don't mind wasting more??? I do agree with your point, but insist on less government = less waste. Ok, call me simplistic..... lol

    I agree that Government is necessary, and does some good things as I cite above. What we likely disagree on is the necessary role, and unfortunately, that discussion is typically mired in partisan beliefs.

    My barrage stems from the fact that I thoroughly disagree with the actions of the current administration. Our federal government has a pretty $hitty track record; wouldn't you agree? Look at the state of our social security program. Look at the two unfunded wars we are in? Look at the lack of correct oversight on the oil and banking industries (cheap shot). Look at the deficit. Look at the exportation of jobs. It goes on and on. And now Obama waltzes in and expands the reach of government when he probably should have downsized just like everyone else. See my point? It's like hiring an arsonist to the fire dept. How can you trust them? As for solutions, I've stated my preference for stimulating the economy, and fully believe that it would be a better solution than the feds handing states money who then hand it to counties and so on (quiz: what is 90% of 90% of 90% and I'm being generous - it's more like 75% of 75% of 75%?) to repave roads. How effective is that? I've also stated my preference for providing health care. Fine me if I don't have insurance -- laughable.

    So yes, I am negative, very negative, and what hope do I have? None. Obama is running roughshod with a typically liberal agenda of having the visible hand of government reaching farther and farther into our lives. I trust him even less than the institution he represents.

  6. #6
    Havakasha is offline
    I dont have a problem with less govt as long as they can regulate Big banks
    and try to prevent them from bringing the worlds financial system to its knees (as they just did), can regulate oil companies so they dont destroy our waters and shorelines, etc. etc.
    The problem is that people who have espoused less govt have generally wanted to defang it so big companies and powerful interests are free to run roughshod over the interests of the average person. if 8 years of Bush wasnt a test case of how people could destroy important regulatory systems, and at the same time grow the deficit and bureaucracy, all the while yelling and campaigning about the size of govt then i dont know what else is.

    I call out that hypocrisy from the likes of John and all others of his ilk.

  7. #7
    candleman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiriuslyLong View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Candleman. I would love to hear Lloyd's opinon too.

    I think you and I are pretty much on the same page about the role of government and the role of the public. I don't mind paying taxes; I just think a lot of what we pay gets wasted, and that bothers me.

    There is one good government program I fully support. Here in Michigan, a soda or beer can or bottle is worth 10 cents. That was great legislation. Not only does it add to the common good of society, but it creates jobs (someone made those do it yourself return machines and someone tends to them).

    When I go down to your neck of the woods, it's a little disconcerting to simply throw all those beer cans away LOL.
    SL,
    Although this is not the right thread...... I think you've hit the nail on the head about a great government program that helps stem the waste of oil and plastic.

    I LOVE the states that charge a deposit on plastic, glass, and aluminum beverage containers. It helps in several ways. First of all, it discourages landfilling of these items that CAN be recycled. Secondly, it DOES create a lot of jobs. And I think it actually causes people to think twice about buying a bottle of something that they have to return. I see hundreds of people everyday walking around with plastic bottles full of water that they bought at the store. Most of those bottles end up in a landfill. What a waste of oil and our environment!

    Here on the Outer Banks, plastic shopping bags have been outlawed. We now use paper bags (again). It's much better for our enviroment here and the Sea Turtles, which is why it was imposed. But, paper bags have become cheaper than plastic bags, so it makes me a couple hundered extra bucks a year that way too.

    By the way, none of this would happen if it wasn't for government regulation. And, I think most states that have deposit laws and ban plastic bags are Democrat controlled governments. In North Carolina the Republicans don't have a very good environmental track record.

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