Stimulus Raised GDP by up to 4.2% in First Quarter

[SiriuslyLong]

http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-05-16/ro...ian-economics/

The best 8 minutes you might ever have. Be enlightened.

[Havakasha]

Are you also a fan of Rand Paul? LOL. Can you say wacko?
I believe he got himself in a hell of a mess for implying that private business should have the right
to discriminate. Oh watching him backpedal on that one was a sight to see.

[SiriuslyLong]

You put a lot of words in my mouth. Thats ok. I know they are not my positions.
The only thing i will agree with you on, is that yes i do want govt to protect us from the greed of the free market system. Call me crazy. I do want consumer protections as they relate to banks and credit cards, and i do want more regulation of the banks and the oil industry etc. We have seen what 8 years under Bush have done to the regulatory system of this country. They stripped it bare and stocked it full of industry people who care only about protecting the industries interests and not us citizens. Funny how people like you dont recognize the absolute corruption and stacking of the decks by the powerful money interests in this country.

Hey, that was carefully thought out, "it is as if..............."

"Funny how people like you dont recognize the absolute corruption and stacking of the decks by the powerful money interests in this country" - Did you read what I wrote above? It is you cannot see that our government is EXACTLY what you are talking about!!! Don't let the illusion of policy fool you.

[SiriuslyLong]

Are you also a fan of Rand Paul? LOL. Can you say wacko?
I believe he got himself in a hell of a mess for implying that private business should have the right
to discriminate. Oh watching him backpedal on that one was a sight to see.

No, I'm a fan of Austrian Economics. Old school. "This is America. In America, we get up, go to work and solve our problems". That used to be the way it was, but then the government decided to solve our problems for us. That is where the power, greed and corruption is.

[Havakasha]

I see a difference between an Obama administration which is trying to regulate and incoporate consumer protections and a Bush administration
which dismantled consumer protections.

You seem to see no difference and thats where we have a fundamental disagreement.
I actually like some of what Ron Paul says, but if you really dig down deep he also believes in some pretty scary things. Watch his son (whom he supports) in his campaign and maybe you will start to discover some of the deficiencies of some of those beliefs.

[Havakasha]

No, I'm a fan of Austrian Economics. Old school. "This is America. In America, we get up, go to work and solve our problems". That used to be the way it was, but then the government decided to solve our problems for us. That is where the power, greed and corruption is.

Oh i completely agree. Lets get to work and solve our problems. I dont want govt involved anymore than they have to be. The problem is that right now everything is pretty much stacked in favor of the big money corporations and lobbyists. I want to CHANGE the system as it is right now and sometimes you need govt to do that. Its a new world and when bankers and others figure out sophisticated schemes to screw us we need protections. I want public financing of elections for example so no one can buy elections and insure that you dont have to be a millionaire to run for office.

[Havakasha]

Do you want to give free reign to oil companies to control how they are regulated or do you want some non corrupt (unlike now) body to check into whether what they are doing is in our or our fisherman's interests?

[candleman]

Great conversation here guys. Keep it going.

My name was brought up once, and it had to do with the stimulus plan.

This is my take from a retail store owners perspective. We also manufacture and sell into the wholesale market to other retail store owners.

I don't see any positive effect from the stimulus spending directly. I haven't had one family come in and talk to me about how a job was saved by the government. I haven't heard that anyone bought a house that couldn't buy a house without the rebate program.

I'm not going to say that it hasn't helped. But, from my contacts and conversations with my customers, both retail and wholesale, I haven't heard a positive word.

I think those of us that didn't lose jobs, did stop spending. I'm still not spending. My savings are growing though. And if I wanted to spend I could. I think that is when we will recover from the recession. It will be when people like me decide to start spending again.

I think the government had to get involved in saving General Motors and some of the banks. I think we are getting that money back. I think it's not a bad idea for us to spend money on roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, and other infrastructure projects. I just don't like that we are borrowing the money for these programs. I have a big problem with spending money that we don't have a clue how we will ever pay it back.

That's not a Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican problem. That is a problem with our system.

I think if we would have let things get really bad, we might have seen a better recovery then what we have now. If we wouldn't have borrowed so much money, we might have forced ourselves into tax increases that would have forced EVERY American to pay a fair share of this recovery. Our deficit spending has gone on and on and on and on and on for far too long. Whoever is in office seems to want to spend money we don't have. Regan was great at it, Bush was better, and Obama is better yet.

I do want the government to watch out for me. I love highway safety and food inspectors and national defense. I love the EPA and OSHA. Those sort of agencies keep our cars, roads, food, drugs, workplaces, our air and our water better and safer than if they didin't exist. I like paying for that type of protection.

OK, now I'm rambling......

Chuck

[SiriuslyLong]

"and others figure out sophisticated schemes to screw us we need protections"

Clearly your are talkling about government itself lol.

I have to hand it to Candleman for another fantastic post. Right up above Lloyd once again brings up the Bush vs. Obama comparison. Obiviously Candleman, he has a political agenda, and with that agenda, he will always have bias and his objectivity is indeed questionable. If you want to talk about the polictical past, choose the subject of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (or whatever they are called). These are government institutions (now officially) with the charter of making housing "affordable" for everyone, and very democratically supported (John chime in with the details). Hey, I got an idea! Let's loan a supermarket grocery packer $300,000 for house because the social utopians want all to experience home ownership.......................

[SiriuslyLong]

Great conversation here guys. Keep it going.

My name was brought up once, and it had to do with the stimulus plan.

This is my take from a retail store owners perspective. We also manufacture and sell into the wholesale market to other retail store owners.

I don't see any positive effect from the stimulus spending directly. I haven't had one family come in and talk to me about how a job was saved by the government. I haven't heard that anyone bought a house that couldn't buy a house without the rebate program.

I'm not going to say that it hasn't helped. But, from my contacts and conversations with my customers, both retail and wholesale, I haven't heard a positive word.

I think those of us that didn't lose jobs, did stop spending. I'm still not spending. My savings are growing though. And if I wanted to spend I could. I think that is when we will recover from the recession. It will be when people like me decide to start spending again.

I think the government had to get involved in saving General Motors and some of the banks. I think we are getting that money back. I think it's not a bad idea for us to spend money on roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, and other infrastructure projects. I just don't like that we are borrowing the money for these programs. I have a big problem with spending money that we don't have a clue how we will ever pay it back.

That's not a Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican problem. That is a problem with our system.

I think if we would have let things get really bad, we might have seen a better recovery then what we have now. If we wouldn't have borrowed so much money, we might have forced ourselves into tax increases that would have forced EVERY American to pay a fair share of this recovery. Our deficit spending has gone on and on and on and on and on for far too long. Whoever is in office seems to want to spend money we don't have. Regan was great at it, Bush was better, and Obama is better yet.

I do want the government to watch out for me. I love highway safety and food inspectors and national defense. I love the EPA and OSHA. Those sort of agencies keep our cars, roads, food, drugs, workplaces, our air and our water better and safer than if they didin't exist. I like paying for that type of protection.

OK, now I'm rambling......

Chuck

Thanks again Chuck. I'm watching Iron Chef America and they are having a Bonita battle. I once chartered a boat out of Hatteras. The winds were whipping out of the SW for like 6 days straight. The fishing was horrible. We hooked one Bonita and one Maui Maui. We asked the first mate what to do with the Bonita. He laughed and in a typical accent said "make tuna fish sandwiches" which we did. It was the first $1400 tuna fish sandwich I ate. LOL.

I'm in full agreement with what you cite as the role of government. Paying things back is clearly a concept Obama isn't worried about. The stupid $hit is simply trying to reinflate the bubble that already burst. What's the definition of insanity?