Stimulus Raised GDP by up to 4.2% in First Quarter

[Havakasha]

What else can i say but that once again the CBO (a non-partisan group that Republicans always quote when they like the results) has indicated that the stimulus package did more to help the economy than many people were predicting. You can disbelieve it but then you have to say i will never ever
quote anything from the CBO ever again, or you can believe it and try to understand their results and the significance of them. The choice is yours, but at least read what they have to say.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37343761

[SiriuslyLong]

What else can i say but that once again the CBO (a non-partisan group that Republicans always quote when they like the results) has indicated that the stimulus package did more to help the economy than many people were predicting. You can disbelieve it but then you have to say i will never ever
quote anything from the CBO ever again, or you can believe it and try to understand their results and the significance of them. The choice is yours, but at least read what they have to say.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37343761

That's nonsense. The economy worked itself out. As you know, I'm in plastics. In no way does the "stimulus" have anything remotely to do with plastics. In fact, our governments hate plastics lol. Our business has been good - from vending machines to pool pumps to circut breakers to water softeners to junction boxes on the back of solar panels........

I will agree that the stimulus increased employment. The government hired more people to manage more programs lol. That and road construction. Real productive.

At the core, the stimulus has not met its goal of employment. That's why Obama and his goons are looking to hand out more. The only way to truely increase employment is get back to producing things that people want and need, and allow corporations to make money for their stockholders. That's were government has failed (in allowing jobs to be exported too freely). That along with the American consumers taste for foreign $hit. Tax that.

[Havakasha]

So i quess it would be fair to say you dont believe the CBO? lol. So you think the only jobs (in the millions) added were govt jobs? Wow that just seems to be a pretty biased position and one that doesnt fit with the facts. I would guess the CBO has a better overall view of the economy than you do. Sounds like you have a pretty biased opinion that wouldnt accept any study that differs with your point of view. When i have a chance i will try to find a breakdown on the % of jobs added that were govt versus private.

I keep saying this but i will say it one more time for you. EVEN conservative economists acknowledge that when you have a recession (and this one was the 2nd worst recession in the history of the US) YOU HAVE to stimulate the economy. It doesnt JUST "work itself out" as much as you want to believe that.

[Havakasha]

I know you believe our economic system works perfectly without any govt involvement but i think if anything, the past years prove the "free enterprise system", and a lack of govt oversight (hint:banks) can totally screw the economic system up.

Here is just one other example of how the govt can spur growth. As painful as that is for you. LOL.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37354168

[SiriuslyLong]

So i quess it would be fair to say you dont believe the CBO? lol. So you think the only jobs (in the millions) added were govt jobs? Wow that just seems to be a pretty biased position and one that doesnt fit with the facts. I would guess the CBO has a better overall view of the economy than you do. Sounds like you have a pretty biased opinion that wouldnt accept any study that differs with your point of view. When i have a chance i will try to find a breakdown on the % of jobs added that were govt versus private.

I keep saying this but i will say it one more time for you. EVEN conservative economists acknowledge that when you have a recession (and this one was the 2nd worst recession in the history of the US) YOU HAVE to stimulate the economy. It doesnt JUST "work itself out" as much as you want to believe that.

Even conservative economists can be Keynesians. Keynesian economics are a politicians best friend. This is how politicians promise soooo much. They don't have to save the money in order to spend it.

Look, I'm in industry. The CBO can sit there in Washington and plan, scheme, report whatever. My feet hit the floor. I see my customers, and hear what they are saying. The Stimulus has nothing to do with ANY of them. The fact is that during the recession, consumers became savers, and now that they've saved enough, they are spending a little. That's what happens in a recession. The entire concept of stimulus is incongruent. The government wants us to spend what we don't have - so much that they will even subsidize certain purchases. It's just totally assinine. A useful item needn't be subsidized.

Let's ask Candleman, do your customers walk in and say "hey, that stimulus is allowing me to buy your finest candles!"? Well, in one of these threads, I tell Candleman that I'm simply not stimulated enough to visit one of my most beloved places on Earth (the Outer Banks) even though I really, really want to catch fish off the beach, and have my kids purchase some candles for their grandparents.

[Havakasha]

Its obvious we are not going to agree
Martin Feldstein was Reagan's economic advisor and supports the theory that you must stimulate the economy during a recession.
People cant save money when they have no jobs or have lost the value in their houses or lost their houses outright. They cant save what they dont have or dont make. In a normal recession things can turn around at a relatively quick pace, but THIS ISNT NO NORMAL RECESSION.
Of course customers dont talk about stimulus. People dont talk that way, at least the people i know. There are lots of hidden supports that a stimulus creates that people dont know about or in your case refuse to acknowledge. Stimulus at the very least helps support local, state govt's and small businesses which in turn keeps cops, fireman, and teachers in their jobs and who then in turn spend money. I i will accept the CBO's analysis which examines the whole of the economy, over one person with an obvious bias toward anything related to govt. Its obvious that private enterprise and govt operate hand in hand and always has. Its all matter of degree. And how about those Republican hypocrites who cry about Govt spending, but are all too ready to take it to help their communities and states during disasters, catastrophes and recessions.

[SiriuslyLong]

Its obvious we are not going to agree
Martin Feldstein was Reagan's economic advisor and supports the theory that you must stimulate the economy during a recession.
People cant save money when they have no jobs or have lost the value in their houses or lost their houses outright. They cant save what they dont have or dont make. In a normal recession things can turn around at a relatively quick pace, but THIS ISNT NO NORMAL RECESSION.
Of course customers dont talk about stimulus. People dont talk that way, at least the people i know. There are lots of hidden supports that a stimulus creates that people dont know about or in your case refuse to acknowledge. Stimulus at the very least helps support local, state govt's and small businesses which in turn keeps cops, fireman, and teachers in their jobs and who then in turn spend money. I i will accept the CBO's analysis which examines the whole of the economy, over one person with an obvious bias toward anything related to govt. Its obvious that private enterprise and govt operate hand in hand and always has. Its all matter of degree. And how about those Republican hypocrites who cry about Govt spending, but are all too ready to take it to help their communities and states during disasters, catastrophes and recessions.

Dear God - you've gone plain cooky.

Where do I start? With Martin? **** Martin, obviously he is / was one of those who felt it was fine to spend what you don't have (BTW - that doesn't make sense). According to statistics, only 10% are unemployed. Is that 10% going to bring down the remaining 90%? The value you lose in your home is a paper loss, not all together different than my paper loss in SIRI - note to homebuyers BUY WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD, and demonstrate some "personal responsibilty". The low point of your response is "hidden supports". If a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, has it really fallen? If you and I can't see it, then why believe it is true? The plain truth is that you and I are far better "dispensers" of stimulus than our government will ever be, and we'll be far more efficient. Lastly, go ahead and lay faith in the CBO which is simply government. I trust myself 1000x than any politician. I'm not trying to be biased, but simply reporting what I see in the field - NO ONE is effected by this "stimulus". NO ONE!

I do believe that the government can take actions to make things better, but there is a line....... well there used to be.

Love you brother!