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Thread: Stimulus Raised GDP by up to 4.2% in First Quarter

  1. #1
    Havakasha is offline

    Stimulus Raised GDP by up to 4.2% in First Quarter

    What else can i say but that once again the CBO (a non-partisan group that Republicans always quote when they like the results) has indicated that the stimulus package did more to help the economy than many people were predicting. You can disbelieve it but then you have to say i will never ever
    quote anything from the CBO ever again, or you can believe it and try to understand their results and the significance of them. The choice is yours, but at least read what they have to say.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37343761

  2. #2
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    What else can i say but that once again the CBO (a non-partisan group that Republicans always quote when they like the results) has indicated that the stimulus package did more to help the economy than many people were predicting. You can disbelieve it but then you have to say i will never ever
    quote anything from the CBO ever again, or you can believe it and try to understand their results and the significance of them. The choice is yours, but at least read what they have to say.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37343761
    That's nonsense. The economy worked itself out. As you know, I'm in plastics. In no way does the "stimulus" have anything remotely to do with plastics. In fact, our governments hate plastics lol. Our business has been good - from vending machines to pool pumps to circut breakers to water softeners to junction boxes on the back of solar panels........

    I will agree that the stimulus increased employment. The government hired more people to manage more programs lol. That and road construction. Real productive.

    At the core, the stimulus has not met its goal of employment. That's why Obama and his goons are looking to hand out more. The only way to truely increase employment is get back to producing things that people want and need, and allow corporations to make money for their stockholders. That's were government has failed (in allowing jobs to be exported too freely). That along with the American consumers taste for foreign $hit. Tax that.

  3. #3
    Havakasha is offline
    So i quess it would be fair to say you dont believe the CBO? lol. So you think the only jobs (in the millions) added were govt jobs? Wow that just seems to be a pretty biased position and one that doesnt fit with the facts. I would guess the CBO has a better overall view of the economy than you do. Sounds like you have a pretty biased opinion that wouldnt accept any study that differs with your point of view. When i have a chance i will try to find a breakdown on the % of jobs added that were govt versus private.

    I keep saying this but i will say it one more time for you. EVEN conservative economists acknowledge that when you have a recession (and this one was the 2nd worst recession in the history of the US) YOU HAVE to stimulate the economy. It doesnt JUST "work itself out" as much as you want to believe that.

  4. #4
    Havakasha is offline
    I know you believe our economic system works perfectly without any govt involvement but i think if anything, the past years prove the "free enterprise system", and a lack of govt oversight (hint:banks) can totally screw the economic system up.

    Here is just one other example of how the govt can spur growth. As painful as that is for you. LOL.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37354168
    Last edited by Havakasha; 05-27-2010 at 10:57 AM.

  5. #5
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    So i quess it would be fair to say you dont believe the CBO? lol. So you think the only jobs (in the millions) added were govt jobs? Wow that just seems to be a pretty biased position and one that doesnt fit with the facts. I would guess the CBO has a better overall view of the economy than you do. Sounds like you have a pretty biased opinion that wouldnt accept any study that differs with your point of view. When i have a chance i will try to find a breakdown on the % of jobs added that were govt versus private.

    I keep saying this but i will say it one more time for you. EVEN conservative economists acknowledge that when you have a recession (and this one was the 2nd worst recession in the history of the US) YOU HAVE to stimulate the economy. It doesnt JUST "work itself out" as much as you want to believe that.
    Even conservative economists can be Keynesians. Keynesian economics are a politicians best friend. This is how politicians promise soooo much. They don't have to save the money in order to spend it.

    Look, I'm in industry. The CBO can sit there in Washington and plan, scheme, report whatever. My feet hit the floor. I see my customers, and hear what they are saying. The Stimulus has nothing to do with ANY of them. The fact is that during the recession, consumers became savers, and now that they've saved enough, they are spending a little. That's what happens in a recession. The entire concept of stimulus is incongruent. The government wants us to spend what we don't have - so much that they will even subsidize certain purchases. It's just totally assinine. A useful item needn't be subsidized.

    Let's ask Candleman, do your customers walk in and say "hey, that stimulus is allowing me to buy your finest candles!"? Well, in one of these threads, I tell Candleman that I'm simply not stimulated enough to visit one of my most beloved places on Earth (the Outer Banks) even though I really, really want to catch fish off the beach, and have my kids purchase some candles for their grandparents.

  6. #6
    Havakasha is offline
    Its obvious we are not going to agree
    Martin Feldstein was Reagan's economic advisor and supports the theory that you must stimulate the economy during a recession.
    People cant save money when they have no jobs or have lost the value in their houses or lost their houses outright. They cant save what they dont have or dont make. In a normal recession things can turn around at a relatively quick pace, but THIS ISNT NO NORMAL RECESSION.
    Of course customers dont talk about stimulus. People dont talk that way, at least the people i know. There are lots of hidden supports that a stimulus creates that people dont know about or in your case refuse to acknowledge. Stimulus at the very least helps support local, state govt's and small businesses which in turn keeps cops, fireman, and teachers in their jobs and who then in turn spend money. I i will accept the CBO's analysis which examines the whole of the economy, over one person with an obvious bias toward anything related to govt. Its obvious that private enterprise and govt operate hand in hand and always has. Its all matter of degree. And how about those Republican hypocrites who cry about Govt spending, but are all too ready to take it to help their communities and states during disasters, catastrophes and recessions.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 05-26-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  7. #7
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    Its obvious we are not going to agree
    Martin Feldstein was Reagan's economic advisor and supports the theory that you must stimulate the economy during a recession.
    People cant save money when they have no jobs or have lost the value in their houses or lost their houses outright. They cant save what they dont have or dont make. In a normal recession things can turn around at a relatively quick pace, but THIS ISNT NO NORMAL RECESSION.
    Of course customers dont talk about stimulus. People dont talk that way, at least the people i know. There are lots of hidden supports that a stimulus creates that people dont know about or in your case refuse to acknowledge. Stimulus at the very least helps support local, state govt's and small businesses which in turn keeps cops, fireman, and teachers in their jobs and who then in turn spend money. I i will accept the CBO's analysis which examines the whole of the economy, over one person with an obvious bias toward anything related to govt. Its obvious that private enterprise and govt operate hand in hand and always has. Its all matter of degree. And how about those Republican hypocrites who cry about Govt spending, but are all too ready to take it to help their communities and states during disasters, catastrophes and recessions.
    Dear God - you've gone plain cooky.

    Where do I start? With Martin? **** Martin, obviously he is / was one of those who felt it was fine to spend what you don't have (BTW - that doesn't make sense). According to statistics, only 10% are unemployed. Is that 10% going to bring down the remaining 90%? The value you lose in your home is a paper loss, not all together different than my paper loss in SIRI - note to homebuyers BUY WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD, and demonstrate some "personal responsibilty". The low point of your response is "hidden supports". If a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, has it really fallen? If you and I can't see it, then why believe it is true? The plain truth is that you and I are far better "dispensers" of stimulus than our government will ever be, and we'll be far more efficient. Lastly, go ahead and lay faith in the CBO which is simply government. I trust myself 1000x than any politician. I'm not trying to be biased, but simply reporting what I see in the field - NO ONE is effected by this "stimulus". NO ONE!

    I do believe that the government can take actions to make things better, but there is a line....... well there used to be.

    Love you brother!

  8. #8
    Havakasha is offline
    Martin FELDSTEIN. lol
    Going round and round. You're a kook, no you're a kook.
    I think you know better S&L. Its not just 10% unemployment. Its also those who arent even looking for Jobs because they have given up. i never heard someone quite so unconcerned about an official 10% unemployment rate.
    Besides this recession's impact is way beyond just the unemployment rate.
    But then i know you now all that, but simply lost your senses when you heard the word GOVERNMENT.
    Are you actually saying that 10% unemployment doesnt have a major effect on the rest of the 90% of people or the overall economy? According to you then we can accept 10% unemployment as a pretty good #. Then why not 20% unemployment. Surely 20% arent going to have a great impact on the rest of the 80%? And you think i am kooky?

    The value of your home is on paper just as the stock market losses are. But are you seriously suggesting that that doesnt impact the economy? Not to mention that some people have to move and are forced to sell when prices are down.And people sometime count on their stocks to cash in to use for living.

    "no one is affected by the stimulus. Not one." Thats REALLY kooky. But i still love you brother.

    CBO says stimulus kept unemployment rate lower
    By Stephen Dinan 6:27 p.m., Tuesday, May 25, 2010

    The stimulus law was responsible for funding between 1.2 million and 2.8 million jobs in the first quarter of this year and kept the unemployment rate lower than it would otherwise have been, the Congressional Budget Office said in a new analysis Tuesday.

    The analysis said the gross domestic product, the measure of the country's economy, was between 1.7 and 4.2 percent higher than it would otherwise have been without the $862 billion program, which passed Congress in February 2009 almost exclusively on the strength of Democratic votes.

    As for unemployment, even though the rate hovered around 10 percent during the quarter, CBO said that could have been as high as 11.5 percent without the stimulus.

    CBO said the stimulus's effects will peak this year and then shrink next year, and fade away by the end of 2012.

    The agency's figures are slightly better than its previous estimate three months ago, and the analysts said the boost was due to fast-than-expected spending.

    CBO's analysis was based on economic modeling derived from past spending and tax-cut programs, which means its calculations are an estimate of what is going on, not an actual count of specific jobs created.
    Last edited by Havakasha; 05-27-2010 at 09:39 AM.

  9. #9
    SiriuslyLong is offline
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    Despite the visible hand of the government trying to "stimulate" the real estate market, foreclosures are still rising. You can blame years of neglect of the concept of personal responsibility for the problem (enabled by the same goofs who are trying to stimulate it)

    News flash - the top 1% fo the richest paid 40.1% of all income tax, and yes, 47% don't pay anything at all LOL. You go girl (Hillary). The problem with this old inflammatory line is that it is becoming transparent.

    The difference between you and I is that I have little faith in our government, and you apparently do. It is as if you believe in fighting two unfunded wars. It is as if you believe that underfunded social security is ok. It is as if you think that 47% of Americans not paying income tax is ok. It is as if trillions of dollars of debt is ok. It is as if unsecured borders are ok. Please understand that the greed of Wall Street = greed of Washington DC. The crooks on Wall St are of the same ilk of the crooks from DC. Our government is a f'ing mess. Obama to the rescue!!! lol

  10. #10
    Havakasha is offline
    You put a lot of words in my mouth. Thats ok. I know they are not my positions.
    The only thing i will agree with you on, is that yes i do want govt to protect us from the greed of the free market system. Call me crazy. I do want consumer protections as they relate to banks and credit cards, and i do want more regulation of the banks and the oil industry etc. We have seen what 8 years under Bush have done to the regulatory system of this country. They stripped it bare and stocked it full of industry people who care only about protecting the industries interests and not us citizens. Funny how people like you dont recognize the absolute corruption and stacking of the decks by the powerful money interests in this country.

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