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Thread: Twice.com on Sirius and the internet

  1. #21
    SiriusBuzz is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Charles please stop. Over 98% of the people of this country watch free Broadcast TV channels. Close to 80% pay for TV - cable or satellite.
    Please stop what? I dont know what that has to do with anything. People are paying to watch free TV stations. How does that change anything? Again, more people pay for TV then those who don't. Also again, this is simply an example of people paying for something they could get for free. Which is what I thought we were talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    This is not an either or business. If you look at the numbers a large majority of Sirius subs listen to free radio as well. It's not a matter of beating free radio, it's matter of getting a nice percentage of their listeners to get Sirius.
    I thought we were talking about the internet and applications?

    Anyway, its only about getting a nice percentage? We aren't shooting for a majority percentage? Do you think that is what Sirius XM is thinking? If so, that concerns me. If they don't think they can have larger percentage of listeners then free radio, they should be improving their product IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    I think the concern here should be is Pandora and internet radio ever going to make it into the dashboard and how successful will they be? They are trying. It's a tall task.
    Its a tall task today but it wont be tomorrow. It will be 3-5 years from now (Sirius XM will just be getting their android app to market) and the next thing you know we will broadband like speed in our cars. They already have mobile wireless hotspots and 3g speeds, imagine what they will be doing a couple of years from now.
    Charles LaRocca
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  2. #22
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Oh boy.......

    Again Charles, a realistic is goal is 50 million subs out of the 240 million cars on the road. Which is a very high goal and I believe achievable within a decade or so.

    Radio, whether it be satellite, terrestrial, HD or internet is all about the car and always will be. Good luck with getting Pandora in the dashboard. They'll need it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Oh boy.......

    Again Charles, a realistic is goal is 50 million subs out of the 240 million cars on the road. Which is a very high goal and I believe achievable within a decade or so.
    That is fine, I didnt think that was the issue we were discussing. Isn't the issue at hand the internet?

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Radio, whether it be satellite, terrestrial, HD or internet is all about the car and always will be. Good luck with getting Pandora in the dashboard. They'll need it.
    Most cars are coming equipped with aux jacks and all aftermarket radios already have them. Putting Pandora on my dash is no issue at this point and with the newer in dash internet capable units that are already hitting the market it doesnt seem like this will be a problem over the next few years. Think back a few years ago at what car dashboards looked like and now think about even mid range cars like my moms Jeep Cherokee and my dads acura which has a large built in touch screen, reverse camera with censor, built in navigation, and all kinds of other extras. Its essentially a computer already... what will it look like in a couple of years? Technology is moving at a ridiculous pace, what once seemed far fetched has become reality in a couple of years time.

    Worrying about limiting technological factors is archaic thinking.

    My 2 cents.

    As for radio being "all about the car" is up for debate as well. News was once "all about the newspaper" and online new changed that in the blink of an eye. I spend 8 hours listening to radio a day and only 1 hour of that time is done in my car. With the advent of the internet and ability to stream, the way people get their music and talk is changing. I can stream right to my computer, phone, and my home entertainment system and spend far more time listening in those areas, maybe I am the minority now but the millions of Pandora listeners is proof that people do in fact do it... why right off this area of the market? Seems like a huge wasted opportunity. Not to mention that this area of the market allows Sirius XM to go global.... it seems like a no brainer. Pandora is probably damn near 40 million users at this point so (that doesnt even take into account all online music services), this less important market in your eyes already is seeing more users then Sirius XM's total subscriber base. There are 250 million+ cars in America yet far more people with internet capability.... which is the bigger potential market?
    Charles LaRocca
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  4. #24
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    And around and around we go. Where we stop nobody knows......

    The market for radio is cars. Its the "Holy Grail" of radio as Mel calls it. In the home, radio competes with TV DVDs internet etc. You are not going to watch TV or browse the internet while you are driving unless you want to crash.

    I will go more into the radio business car connection later tonight, but I gotta pick up my nephew.

  5. #25
    JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz View Post
    Yet more people pay for TV then those who don't in the US. Which was all that I was saying.



    That may be so but you still aren't addressing the fact that more people pay for TV in the US then those who don't. There is no "deep discussion" to be had here. Your knowledge of media has nothing to do with the issue at hand which is the fact that paid services beat out free services. It does happen.

    If what you are saying is that you think a paid app can not beat out a free app, that is your opinion. I for one, disagree. That said, there are other options besides simply charging for the Sirius XM service on the iPhone app... they could easily offer a small "teaser" number of channels for free in an attempt to get people convert to paying subscribers. Then it becomes free music app vs limited free music app which should be even easier to win.

    This is because the free TV is carried by the pay TV at a cost to cable subs...
    simple answer charles to your ?

  6. #26
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Ok I am back now.

    It always make me cringe when bloggers think they understand radio listenership better than Mel. I get it on other blogs too. Mel's words -Cars are the holy grail for radio. In fact the man said he loves traffic jams LOL

    Many people think because of the iPod that radio listening has changed. It never did. From transistor radios to boomboxes to hundred million Walkman to Discman only about 5% of radio listening is done in portable walking mode. And it still hasn't changed in all of radio's history. There is a reason that Howard has always been on in drive time mornings or afternoons in his career. The car is where the money is in radio.

    Getting internet radio built OEM into the dash the way AM, FM and sat radio are now is one tall task. The only reason sat radio was able to break that AM FM barrier is the revenue share. Will Pandora get OEM into the car? Tough to offer a revenue share when the service is free.

    Now go back to the long line of technology that was supposed to kill radio. We all lived through it. Its started with 8 tracks, went to cassettes and then to CD's to iPods. All radio killers. Never happened. We all still listen to radio. Will the internet kill terrestrial radio? No. Will sat radio kill terrestrial radio? No.

    The trick is to take a percentage in the car. Mel is doing just that. New cars, Used Cars, and the aftermarket. But the big key is OEM. HD is trying for it, internet radio I'm sure too. Sat radio has the content and the revenue share. Try to beat it. I double dare you.
    Last edited by MUSCLE13; 11-15-2009 at 08:13 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    And around and around we go. Where we stop nobody knows......

    The market for radio is cars. Its the "Holy Grail" of radio as Mel calls it. In the home, radio competes with TV DVDs internet etc. You are not going to watch TV or browse the internet while you are driving unless you want to crash.
    Personally I think Mel is a bit of an old school fuddy duddy but, I am glad he thinks that cars are the answer. All I am saying is that it my opinion that he is leaving a huge untapped market on the table.

    What does radio competing with those other forms of media in the home have to do with anything? What about the time spent listening online in the office, in the car, at the gym, or on a mobile phone?

    I dont even know where this discussion has gone at this point. Why did you post the twice article? You say that it is excellent... I chime in an agree... and now you are arguing that the internet is not important????
    Charles LaRocca
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    This is because the free TV is carried by the pay TV at a cost to cable subs...
    simple answer charles to your ?
    What question is this answering? I understand how it works. The only point I have made from the jump is that people pay for TV...more-so then those who simply watch it for free.
    Charles LaRocca
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Ok I am back now.

    It always make me cringe when bloggers think they understand radio listenership better than Mel. I get it on other blogs too. Mel's words -Cars are the holy grail for radio. In fact the man said he loves traffic jams LOL
    Isnt this about the twice.com article? I dont understand the tangent you are on.

    That said, people come along and sweep very competent people off their pedestals all the time. Think of the newspaper giants of old, people would have laughed at you if you thought you knew more then they did... now look at their model and dwindling readership. Microsoft that had a stanglehold on the computing world has watched Apples stock rise from single digits to over $200 per share. Is it wrong to question the best in any industry? Have they not made mistakes in the past?

    That being said, I never said I was smarter then mel or new more about radio then mel. I simply thought we were having a discussion and sharing thoughts on the original article posted.

    I for one do not think Mel is God. He is a human and can make mistakes like the rest. Why a man who is as old as he is and who has clearly not surrounded himself with young talent is made out to be infallible seems crazy to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Many people think because of the iPod that radio listening has changed. It never did. From transistor radios to boomboxes to hundred million Walkman to Discman only about 5% of radio listening is done in portable walking mode. And it still hasn't changed in all of radio's history. There is a reason that Howard has always been on in drive time mornings or afternoons in his career. The car is where the money is in radio.
    That may still be correct but there is now a new medium. Things change... the internet is here. The newspaper industry didn't change for a hundred years either... now look at it.

    That said this still doesnt change the fact they are missing out on the internet market. Even if most listening is done in the car for 1% of what they spend on their automobile listening technology they could tap an even larger market which would allow them to reach the rest of the world. Why not spend a couple million (as apposed to billions) to dominate that market? Its a no brainer. I have never said they shouldnt be in cars... of course they should.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Getting internet radio built OEM into the dash the way AM, FM and sat radio are now is one tall task.
    So is launching satellites into space and beaming music around the united states. Yet they did it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    The only reason sat radio was able to break that AM FM barrier is the revenue share. Will Pandora get OEM into the car? Tough to offer a revenue share when the service is free.
    The Pandora business model is not free.

    Pandora does not have to get into the dash, just internet or 3g does. If they do, Pandora is in for free, just like it is on cellphones and computers. The app will either be offered with the in dash head unit or you will be able to download it or add via memory stick. Head units already have usb transfer devices and built in hardrives. Its a computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    Now go back to the long line of technology that was supposed to kill radio. We all lived through it. Its started with 8 tracks, went to cassettes and then to CD's to iPods. All radio killers. Never happened. We all still listen to radio. Will the internet kill terrestrial radio? No. Will sat radio kill terrestrial radio? No.
    Maybe not kill but it has already been severely wounded. I live in Boston (a MAJOR market) and we have seen our radio dials reduced to next to nothing. Sure it will always exist but what state will it be left in.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSCLE13 View Post
    The trick is to take a percentage in the car. Mel is doing just that. New cars, Used Cars, and the aftermarket. But the big key is OEM. HD is trying for it, internet radio I'm sure too. Sat radio has the content and the revenue share. Try to beat it. I double dare you.
    So, because they are going to win in the car, they should leave the internet market on the table? Its a huge market and its relatively cheap to get into... why ignore it?
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

  10. #30
    MUSCLE13 is offline
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    Very simple answer to all your questions. They absolutely MUST ADDRESS THE INTERNET/CELLPHONE MARKET..............in ways that get people listening to Sirius XM in the car.

    Mel is not G-D. Mel is radio. And radio is cars. It's as simple as that. Don't like it? Don't agree with it? Don't care. That's radio.
    Last edited by MUSCLE13; 11-15-2009 at 10:54 PM.

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