Joined: May 2008
New poll shows 65% of doctors dont want government health care.
Now as many know I dont like polls unless they are from Rasmussin or Zoggby (because they have been found to be the most correct and unbias). Most others have a bias and dont show the full questions that were asked and what the possible answers where. This poll really is no different but it gives some interesting information. Like that the AMA only represents 18% of the doctors in the USA. Now while it also says that 45% of the doctors would quit or retire early if this went through. There is the case to be made that it was a mailed poll and most of the people that do those polls are older. There by being more conservative and be closer to retirement then others.
Now after reading that poll I will say while it can be toren apart like most others there is something that I have found interesting in it. I used to look at the AMA and ask myself FROM A COMMON SENSE point of view. How can most doctors be for this government run health insurance. I do remember when the Clinton Healthcare was trying to be passed, 2 of my friends (one just finishing up med school and the other 1 year into his residency) said to me if this passes then I am really worried because I have over 180,000 in student loans (the other only had 125,000) so how can I pay those off you know I will be 34 or 35 before I even get close to start to even begin to pay off the princible because I will not even start to earn enough where I can start to pay them off till I am 30 or 31 along with living expences. It also just so happens that we discussed this again not to long ago and they still have the same concerns (not with being able to pay off student loans) but with what they will end up getting paid. Here is where the common sense and logical point of view comes in, when talking, Kieth said to me its ridiculous,** who would want to work harder for less.** Dont get me wrong we dont get into medicine to get rich but few want to go through everything we do to be doctors and be poor.
So now back to the poll now while I dont believe that ALL 45% would quit, what I find interesting is that they are even thinking about it. Let me put this in another way If the government plan went through then there would be at least 20 million more people added to the rolls so not only would we be adding to a already overwork system but that at least some of the 45% would follow through with what they say. What else would happen is many that would have gotten into medicine will not even bother to get into medicine after. There is a fact that noone can dispute and that is in many countries that have a govermnet health care plan has trouble getting doctors, so much so they have to import them from other countries. So one only has to ask WHY.
What I am saying is when you look at these polls that say doctors want government health care. That is like doctors are saying, yes I also want to be paid less and while your at it work me harder. Thats exactly what I want, to work harder for less. That is not to say that many doctors are not doing it just to help people but I contend that number is less then those that want to do that, but want to be paid at least enough to pay their student loans off and be able to have a reasonable living.
Last edited by john; 09-17-2009 at 03:22 PM.
Joined: Jul 2009
Fox Runs Wild With "NOT Scientific" IBD Poll
From Media Matters
Several Fox News media figures highlighted a recent Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll which found that "[t]wo of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted." However, according to statistician Nate Silver, the poll is "simply not credible," and Fox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."
Silver, Fox News undermine IBD/TIPP poll's credibility
Nate Silver: Poll is "simply not credible." In a September 16 post to his blog FiveThirtyEight.com, Silver listed five reasons why the IBD poll should be "completely ignore[d]":
1. The survey was conducted by mail, which is unusual. The only other mail-based poll that I'm aware of is that conducted by the Columbus Dispatch, which was associated with an average error of about 7 percentage points -- the highest of any pollster that we tested.
2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.
3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.
4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.
5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.
Silver added: "There are pollsters out there that have an agenda but are highly competent, and there are pollsters that are nonpartisan but not particularly skilled. Rarely, however, do you find the whole package: that special pollster which is both biased and inept. IBD/TIPP is one of the few exceptions."
Your World aired an on-screen graphic calling the poll "not scientific." During Neil Cavuto's discussion of the IBD/TIPP poll on the September 16 edition of Fox News' Your World, the on-screen graphic indicated that the poll was "not scientific": (screen-shot snip)
Fox News ran with IBD/TIPP poll anyway
Neil Cavuto: "Anyway, if Congress votes it in, doctors will bail out. A brand-new poll showing 45 percent of America's doctors will consider hanging up their stethoscopes for good if the government overhauls health care. Dr. Juliette Madrigal is one of them. Doctor, pretty strong warning. What are you saying?" [Your World with Neil Cavuto, 9/16/09]
Bret Baier: "If health care reform legislation passes, you could have a hard time finding a doctor, at least according to one poll. A new survey for Investor's Business Daily indicates 45 percent of physicians questioned would consider shutting down their practices or retiring early if Congress approves the type of overhaul that the Democratic majority and the administration have in mind. It also reveals that 65 percent of doctors do not support the plan. That contradicts not only the White House but the American Medical Association. Also, 71 percent of doctors surveyed say they do not believe the government can cover 47 million more people at a lower cost while providing better health care." [Special Report, 9/16/09]
Dick Morris: "In the Investor's Business Daily poll that just came out, by 2-to-1 doctors oppose his plan, and 45 percent of the doctors said they would personally consider retiring or ending their practice if it passes, which will make the shortage even worse." [The O'Reilly Factor, 9/16/09]
Bill O'Reilly: "' Unresolved Problem' segment tonight: Trying to get new health care bill passed in America is obviously a major problem, and we have some new poll numbers to show you. A new Rasmussen poll, as we mentioned with Dick Morris, says opposition to Obama care has now reached an all time high. 55 percent against, 42 percent supporting the plan. Investor's Business Daily has a poll which shows 65 percent oppose Obamacare. Just 33 percent support it. And 45 percent of doctors say they will consider leaving their practice or retiring early if Obamacare passes." [The O'Reilly Factor, 9/16/09]
Sean Hannity: "The Obama administration cites doctor shortages as one reason health care in the U.S. is so expensive. But if the administration's bill passes, it looks like that problem is only going to get worse. A new poll shows that a whopping 65 percent of doctors oppose the bill and 45 percent would consider quitting their practice entirely or retiring early if it's passed. Well, then we'll really know what a doctor shortage really looks like." [Hannity, 9/16/09]
Steve Doocy: "Plus, over 70 percent of doctors don't believe the president's plan can't cover all the uninsured Americans out there. And wait until you hear how many will leave their practice if it goes through." [Fox & Friends, 9/17/09]
The "Network" is sooo credible. HAH, HAH, OH, OH, HEH, HEH, HILARIOUS
Joined: May 2008
REPOST from other thread:
Really Adumbical "from Media Matters". You just got through saying the ACORN videos where FAKED and you put up Media Matters as a reference. They are the the liberial experts at cut and paste and chopping audio. They have been doing it to Rush for years. The difference is Rush plays what they say he said and then plays the full piece.
By the way it has been released that there where no voice overs on the ACORN videos, and any cuts that where made to the videos where made because there was upto 45 minute meetings and noone puts up 45 minutes in a exposie. Editing is done so that the most interesting parts are in, while getting rid of much of the boring parts. That the parts that where left in are in sections that are more then long enough to get what was going on, you hear the questions and you hear the answers all in one segiment. It is a common practice every media outlet uses and that the full video can be seen to prove that nothing was taken out of context.
Those 2 people knew just who they where dealing with, that is why they releast each different office over several days. They beat ACORN with the truth. When ACORN came out with they tried this in several offices and this was the only office that was found to do this they realease another. When they say the videos where faked they release another video. When Acorn tries to say FOX funded this They release the idomized recipts showing the whole thing was done for under 2,000 dollars.
Once again I love it because it allows me to show what a brainwashed twit you are. You where dumber then ACORN because you fell into the diatribe of ACORN, reguardless of how stupid it sounded. Hey dumbass 83 to 7 senators voted to cut off funding for ACORN, even 40 democrats realize the video was not cut to a point where it could have ever been taken out of context of the questions asked and then where directly answered IN ONE CUT. You believed ACORN even after they say the video was faked but they fired 4 people because of the videos. Hey dumbass you cant have it both ways. I would have liked to see how that went;
ACORN: Your fired.
Employee: But why, you even said the videos where faked.
ACORN: Hummmmm, Dhaaa, mmmmmm, Dhaaaaa, mmmm, Dhaaaaaa, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, just clear out you desk and get out.
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: San Antonio
BTW- the American Nursing Society or whoever it was that Obama was showing off a couple of weeks ago...backing healthcare reform...They only represent about 20-25% of all nurses in the US
Don't let his BS fool you!
Last edited by just sirius; 09-17-2009 at 06:56 PM.
Reason: can't spell
THANKS MEL...COLORADO BOUND
Joined: May 2008
Havakasha says this:
"Notice the difference between John's poll heading and this one.
He says Doctors opposed to GOVERNMENT Health Care.
My poll says Doctors in favor of PUBLIC OPTION. Now we all know
what is being talked about in Congress is a MIX of public and private not
wholesale Public. The fact that John needs to call it government health care tells you everything you need to know about the right wing. They HAVE to be intellectually dishonest. Its in their DNA. They are simply too afraid to argue
the ACTUAL bill. Sad."
Now lets talk about "intellectually dishonesty" So what does he have a disagreement with the NAME of the title of the thread. He forgets to mention that I say in the poll that it like many others can be torn apart he forgets to say I analize it like any other poll. Then look at the polls they put up, they just give the link and that is that. They let the poll stand on its own, when like I said (at the top of this thread) most polls can be torn apart and destroyed.
Havakasha, talks about "intellectually dishonesty" Is it any wonder, he would know that best. He knows nothing about being honest. He forgets even "Paul klugman" (you know Lloyds lib hero) says that the house bill will end up turning into a single payer government plan. Paul was not the only one there saying that there have been many democrats like Barney Frank that have said the samething.
Havakasha, you want to be "intellectually HONEST" for a change. Why dont you talk about how any company that is presently paying more then 8% of payroll for their employees health care (which is most companies in America) would do what any company does and cut cost. You do know what that means dont you. Most likely not, so I will explan it to you. If a comapny can get away from paying 9% or more for health care then they will, that means most will be forced into the government health care.
Havakasha, you want to be "intellectually HONEST" for a change. Why dont you explain how any private insurance company can compete against the government with will be setting all the rules. Ho and thats right they dont have to worry about cost because they will do just as they have done everytime increase taxes or print more money to make up for any short fall.
Havakasha, you want to be intellectually HONEST" for a change. Then ask yourself if you were given a poll which basically says you are going to have to work harder for less money, if would you be in favor of that. Answer that question Havakasha and you will have your answer to your poll.
Havakasha, you want to be intellectually HONEST" for a change. Ask yourself why is it that almost every country that has government run health care has major shortages of doctors, so much so they have to have major campaigns to import doctors from other countires.
And finally Havakasha, you want to be intellectually HONEST" for a change. Why dont you guys try not side steping questions posed to you and just answer them.
Joined: May 2008
Unbelievable, This is exactly what I talked about when I said Havakasha could not be "intellectually HONEST"
Havakasha, said this in the thread "So much for Obama having the most open administration":
"And once again John doesnt answer the charge about the two polls but changes the subject. A pattern? you betta ya!"
Now his he going to try and tell me he did not bother reading this thread that was DIRECTLY BELOW that thread, Really.
So Havakasha, Because you are an idiot why dont you look just above this post to find your answer. Really are you that big of a twit, or that dishonest, Which is it?