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Thread: The Body Count at Home

  1. #1
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    The Body Count at Home

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/op...13kristof.html

  2. #2
    candleman is offline
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    Excellent article Lloyd. Thanks for posting it.

  3. #3
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    If Nikki White was out of work why did she not get Medicaid. If she was out of work then she was in the lower income bracket that would make her eligable for Medicaid. Or is she part of the 3 million that could get it but just dont know how to get it.


    Now I will give you an example of how well Oregon state run health care system ran for Barbra who had cancer. When she tried to get the state to cover the medication to prolong her life she was sent a letter from the state saying that, We cannot cover the drugs to prolong your life but we will however pay for the drug and doctor to help kill yourself. As amazing as that sound it is all true and what you get when the government takes over health care.


    First there are 2 questions you should ask yourselves if you want to be honest with yourself.

    1.) What was that letter the State of Oregon sent Barbra, if not a death sentence?

    2.) Who was it that made that decision, if not some government bureaucrats?

    Now here is the hard part for libs to put 2 and 2 together, it is not that hard for most, you get 4. While the bureaucratic office in the state of Oregon may not be called a death panel what did they just decide for Barbra. You know for most of us it is not that hard if you are put under house arrest what would you call your home. Is your home really a jail, NO but it serves the same purpose.


    Hey Lloyd now why dont you ask the other 6,250 in Vancover, Canada how they feel about the government telling them they will not get the surguries they need to get. We already know from the article I will put up how the doctor feels;

    Dr. Brian Brodie, president of the BC Medical Association, called the proposed surgical cuts “a nightmare.”

    “Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can’t think of a worse place,” Brodie said.


    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/13/...ng-out-canada/

    Once again follow the links to the original articles. Heritage does not ask you to believe them, that is why they give all the links to the story.
    Last edited by john; 09-13-2009 at 02:10 PM.

  4. #4
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    If Nikki White was out of work why did she not get Medicaid. If she was out of work then she was in the lower income bracket that would make her eligable for Medicaid. Or is she part of the 3 million that could get it but just dont know how to get it.


    Now I will give you an example of how well Oregon state run health care system ran for Barbra who had cancer. When she tried to get the state to cover the medication to prolong her life she was sent a letter from the state saying that, We cannot cover the drugs to prolong your life but we will however pay for the drug and doctor to help kill yourself. As amazing as that sound it is all true and what you get when the government takes over health care.


    Hey Lloyd now why dont you ask the other 6,250 in Vancover, Canada how they feel about the government telling them they will not get the surguries they need to get. We already know from the article I will put up how the doctor feels;

    Dr. Brian Brodie, president of the BC Medical Association, called the proposed surgical cuts “a nightmare.”

    “Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can’t think of a worse place,” Brodie said.


    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/13/...ng-out-canada/

    Once again follow the links to the original articles. Heritage does not ask you to believe them, that is why they give all the links to the story.


    Now candleman I would like the same comment for my post or are you just interest in one sided information.

  5. #5
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    Nicholas Kristof has a blog which he lists at the end of the article. He always welcomes comments and questions.

  6. #6
    candleman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Now candleman I would like the same comment for my post or are you just interest in one sided information.
    Hey John, I don't see any facts in your response. Maybe you could point them out to me.

    The point is that there are a ton of people that don't have coverage. None of my employees do. If they did, I would have to close the business and they would all be unemployed. Is that what you want?

    Congress needs to help figure out how to fix the problem. I have some ideas.

    There should be NO advertising of prescription drugs to the general public. That way we wouldn't convince people that they are sicker than they are. States and Counties need to offer health clinics to every citizen to use. And then outlaw people using the hospital emergency room for non emergency illnesses.

    Those are just a couple of ideas. I'm a small business person and I don't have the time to really study the issue. That's why I elect people to represent me in government. So that they can study and understand the issues and then try and make things work.

    You seem very negative about all of this. Perhaps if you worked for 10 or 15 bucks an hour you'd have a different opinion. Maybe not though. I find that Fox News has done a great job of brainwashing even the poorest people of our society.

    But, none the less John, it was a good post. Keep those thoughts coming. That's what will actually help us solve the problem in the long run. This is a great debate that has been kept quiet for far too long. That's why the problem has just gotten worse and worse through the years.... People just don't want to think about how to change things, so that the system is better for all of us.

  7. #7
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    Hey John, I don't see any facts in your response. Maybe you could point them out to me.

    The point is that there are a ton of people that don't have coverage. None of my employees do. If they did, I would have to close the business and they would all be unemployed. Is that what you want?

    Congress needs to help figure out how to fix the problem. I have some ideas.

    There should be NO advertising of prescription drugs to the general public. That way we wouldn't convince people that they are sicker than they are. States and Counties need to offer health clinics to every citizen to use. And then outlaw people using the hospital emergency room for non emergency illnesses.

    Those are just a couple of ideas. I'm a small business person and I don't have the time to really study the issue. That's why I elect people to represent me in government. So that they can study and understand the issues and then try and make things work.

    You seem very negative about all of this. Perhaps if you worked for 10 or 15 bucks an hour you'd have a different opinion. Maybe not though. I find that Fox News has done a great job of brainwashing even the poorest people of our society.

    But, none the less John, it was a good post. Keep those thoughts coming. That's what will actually help us solve the problem in the long run. This is a great debate that has been kept quiet for far too long. That's why the problem has just gotten worse and worse through the years.... People just don't want to think about how to change things, so that the system is better for all of us.

    Ok I will, it is a fact that Barbra had cancer in Oregon. It is a fact that the state sent her a letter saying what I told you the letter said. It is a fact that everytime the government gets involved in heathcare it gets rationed. It is a fact that that also has caused many to die. It is a fact that it will always be harder to deal with the government then a private insurance company (ever try to sue the government on anything, First you have to get passed the government imunities they have before you even get into anything else it is a added hard, almost impossible step to get past).



    There are about 12 million people (or 4% of the population) that are not insured because they fall through the cracks, those people are not a reason to tear apart the whole system (that 85% of the population is happy with)only to put into place a worse one run by the government who has shown it cant run anything right, from the bankrupt US Post Office to AMTrack to Medicare to Medicade to SS. They have bankrupted them all or are well on their way. Now you guys want to trust them with your healthcare. There is no reason to tear apart a system for 4% of the population when most of those can be taken care of using other ways that does not. How about buying it across state lines. How about tort reform. How about health savings accounts. How about tax credits. All of those will take care of as many of the people Obamas government plan will and it will not cost close to what his plan will. You see there is a problem with that though it means Obama has to go after his special intrest, the lawers (Howerd Dean said that was the reason they wont do it). What happen to Obamas promise to clean up government and not let special interest effect government. The other problem is it does not give him what he wants which is more government control.


    Now you say this;

    "There should be NO advertising of prescription drugs to the general public. That way we wouldn't convince people that they are sicker than they are. States and Counties need to offer health clinics to every citizen to use. And then outlaw people using the hospital emergency room for non emergency illnesses"


    I can agree with the prescription drug part. The other is already out there, have you not ever heard of the FREE CLINIC. Now while they would have to be kept open 24 hours a day 365 days a years that is possible. The problem with not letting people use the emergency room is the laws that prohibit it.



    As for Fox they are the only ones that report all the stories I have yet to see any other MSM report on Van Jones or ACORN for more then 60 seconds. I think if you look at the MSM you will see it is every other MSM outlet that has brainwashed you. If you still dont get it here is a clear example. Not one other news agency reported on the multitude of Obamas or Bidins Gaffs but had plenty of Palin. Fox on the other hand played all of the gaffs on both sides, well not all of Bidens, there where so many. (As a matter of personal opinion I think Biden is the only reason Obama is the safest president in history, people know if anything happens to Obama then they get Biden and that cant happen.)


    As for what you said about not giving your own employees insurance, that it would put you out of business is exactly another reason we cant afford Obamas plan and what many have reported on FOX that it would cost jobs and if that was bad enough it is not something that can happen in a recession. So it is exactly what I dont want and why I fight this every chance I get. You just used one of the many arguements we all use that fight to keep the government out of health care. You would have known that if you watched FOX.


    As a example to brainwashing did you even hear of Van Jones before he had to resign and even then did they just report his statement ("I was a victim of a smear campaign") or did they play any of the multitude of videos where he has stated how racist or radical he is. There is a difference when you smear yourself and when others try to say you said something, the videos dont lie.



    Try reading this link and see if it meets your bar for facts.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...78506&sponsor=



    P.S. candelman, you say that Lloyds article was nice yet it did not explain a basic fact that most are covered under medicade once they fall below a certain limit. Why was she not covered is a question any resonable person would ask if they are truely looking for the truth.
    Last edited by john; 09-14-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #8
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    Hey John, I don't see any facts in your response. Maybe you could point them out to me.

    The point is that there are a ton of people that don't have coverage. None of my employees do. If they did, I would have to close the business and they would all be unemployed. Is that what you want?

    Congress needs to help figure out how to fix the problem. I have some ideas.

    There should be NO advertising of prescription drugs to the general public. That way we wouldn't convince people that they are sicker than they are. States and Counties need to offer health clinics to every citizen to use. And then outlaw people using the hospital emergency room for non emergency illnesses.

    Those are just a couple of ideas. I'm a small business person and I don't have the time to really study the issue. That's why I elect people to represent me in government. So that they can study and understand the issues and then try and make things work.

    You seem very negative about all of this. Perhaps if you worked for 10 or 15 bucks an hour you'd have a different opinion. Maybe not though. I find that Fox News has done a great job of brainwashing even the poorest people of our society.

    But, none the less John, it was a good post. Keep those thoughts coming. That's what will actually help us solve the problem in the long run. This is a great debate that has been kept quiet for far too long. That's why the problem has just gotten worse and worse through the years.... People just don't want to think about how to change things, so that the system is better for all of us.
    Candleman, you are a better man than i. Good luck.

  9. #9
    candleman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Ok I will, it is a fact that Barbra had cancer in Oregon. It is a fact that the state sent her a letter saying what I told you the letter said. It is a fact that everytime the government gets involved in heathcare it gets rationed. It is a fact that that also has caused many to die. It is a fact that it will always be harder to deal with the government then a private insurance company (ever try to sue the government on anything, First you have to get passed the government imunities they have before you even get into anything else it is a added hard, almost impossible step to get past).



    There are about 12 million people (or 4% of the population) that are not insured because they fall through the cracks, those people are not a reason to tear apart the whole system (that 85% of the population is happy with)only to put into place a worse one run by the government who has shown it cant run anything right, from the bankrupt US Post Office to AMTrack to Medicare to Medicade to SS. They have bankrupted them all or are well on their way. Now you guys want to trust them with your healthcare. There is no reason to tear apart a system for 4% of the population when most of those can be taken care of using other ways that does not. How about buying it across state lines. How about tort reform. How about health savings accounts. How about tax credits. All of those will take care of as many of the people Obamas government plan will and it will not cost close to what his plan will. You see there is a problem with that though it means Obama has to go after his special intrest, the lawers (Howerd Dean said that was the reason they wont do it). What happen to Obamas promise to clean up government and not let special interest effect government. The other problem is it does not give him what he wants which is more government control.


    Now you say this;

    "There should be NO advertising of prescription drugs to the general public. That way we wouldn't convince people that they are sicker than they are. States and Counties need to offer health clinics to every citizen to use. And then outlaw people using the hospital emergency room for non emergency illnesses"


    I can agree with the prescription drug part. The other is already out there, have you not ever heard of the FREE CLINIC. Now while they would have to be kept open 24 hours a day 365 days a years that is possible. The problem with not letting people use the emergency room is the laws that prohibit it.



    As for Fox they are the only ones that report all the stories I have yet to see any other MSM report on Van Jones or ACORN for more then 60 seconds. I think if you look at the MSM you will see it is every other MSM outlet that has brainwashed you. If you still dont get it here is a clear example. Not one other news agency reported on the multitude of Obamas or Bidins Gaffs but had plenty of Palin. Fox on the other hand played all of the gaffs on both sides, well not all of Bidens, there where so many. (As a matter of personal opinion I think Biden is the only reason Obama is the safest president in history, people know if anything happens to Obama then they get Biden and that cant happen.)


    As for what you said about not giving your own employees insurance, that it would put you out of business is exactly another reason we cant afford Obamas plan and what many have reported on FOX that it would cost jobs and if that was bad enough it is not something that can happen in a recession. So it is exactly what I dont want and why I fight this every chance I get. You just used one of the many arguements we all use that fight to keep the government out of health care. You would have known that if you watched FOX.


    As a example to brainwashing did you even hear of Van Jones before he had to resign and even then did they just report his statement ("I was a victim of a smear campaign") or did they play any of the multitude of videos where he has stated how racist or radical he is. There is a difference when you smear yourself and when others try to say you said something, the videos dont lie.



    Try reading this link and see if it meets your bar for facts.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...78506&sponsor=
    John, I still don't see any facts about Barbara. I think she is a made up person put out there by Sarah Palin and her buddies. Please show me a fact that you can prove about her. A copy of the letter from Oregon would be great. I just like facts John.

    As for Canada, you have a point. We don't have to be like them. I don't think I've heard our Congress wanting to be like them. Please prove me wrong and show me where a majority of our Congress has stated they want to be like Canada.

    And John, here on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, there is no Free Clinic or any such thing. I live in the real world John. Where are you living?

  10. #10
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by candleman View Post
    John, I still don't see any facts about Barbara. I think she is a made up person put out there by Sarah Palin and her buddies. Please show me a fact that you can prove about her. A copy of the letter from Oregon would be great. I just like facts John.

    As for Canada, you have a point. We don't have to be like them. I don't think I've heard our Congress wanting to be like them. Please prove me wrong and show me where a majority of our Congress has stated they want to be like Canada.

    And John, here on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, there is no Free Clinic or any such thing. I live in the real world John. Where are you living?


    For you candelman I will do the research you should be doing yourself.


    http://www.physiciansforreform.org/index.php?id=30


    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...oach_to_h.html


    http://healthcarehorserace.com/tag/barbara-wagner/


    As for me, I have been living on planet earth in the real world, how about you.


    http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcity.php?stateid=NC



    Then you people wonder why I get so pissed at you, get the facts before you say something.

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