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Thread: Study Suggest Wind Power Potential is Much Higher than Current Estimates

  1. #21
    Atypical is offline
    All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

    Here's how it works.

    My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

    Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

    That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

    That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

    One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

    Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!








    Quote Originally Posted by just sirius View Post
    So...in your words...The MSM are lazy and uneducated in many issues and afraid of losing ad dollars! If they are uneducated and lazy...get them the F off of my television. they have no business discussing politics! NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC. What about MSNBC getting caught red handed editing video and lying to our faces! The "WHITE GUN TOTING" when it was a African-American. They edited the tape, lied during the broadcast, and lied again saying that the reporter wasn't talking about that guy! BS When you lie, you should lose ad revenue...you should lose your job!

    NBC- Immelt in Obamas back pocket!
    MSNBC- lying DBags!!!
    CBS- Remember Dan the big fat lier Rather
    ABC- probably the fairest of the 3 network media giants!
    FOX- kicking their asses while at least putting out varying opinions! i admit Hannity/Beck are over the top...Otherwise fairly even...IMHO
    Last edited by Atypical; 09-20-2009 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #22
    john is offline
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    Joined: May 2008 Posts: 2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    You never acknowledge all the many billions in subsidies that have gone to the coal, gas and oil industries. Play fair when it comes to helping Alternative energy.
    We have never had a truly free market system. Sorry but its the truth.


    Yea dumbass you cant read can you, just sirius posted exactly what each is given in subsidies TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN MEGAWATT HOUR:

    "This is taken from the governments 2007 Energy Information Administration
    and posted in the San Antonio Express News
    "estimated that in fiscal 2007, tax-payer subsidies for wind-generated electricity, including a production tax credit, equaled $23.37 per megawatt hour...compared to .68c for hydroelectric power and $1.59 for nuclear energy".


    There you idiot it clearly shows that the amount is far higher for wind.

  3. #23
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    The MSM has admitted that their job is NOT to expose lies by either side; their job (as they see it) is merely to say "he said. she said". That does not provide useful information and abdicates the responsibility that the media has always practiced. They are lazy and uneducated in many issues and afraid of losing ad dollars.

    Bush started a war based on lies to excuse his behavior. Using your logic it would be okay to say, Bush lied, bur all politicians lie so it is equal. BULLSHIT.
    There are differences and you know it.


    Then so did the UN, Tony Blair (Englands PM), Clinton (both of them), Russian Inteligence, ect., ect., ect., there was intelligence report after intelligence report that said Iraq did. The only difference was how it would be handled.

  4. #24
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    I understand that you unlike John give some support to alternative energy as an important part of our future. However, you seem to have this deep seated ideological hatred of everything to do with the Govt only as it relates to the alternative energy business. Our Govt has been supporting the gas, coal, and oil industries with billions in subsidies and tax breaks for decades ( which continue today). I dont see your outrage in that case which leaves you open to the charge of being a hypocrite.
    The oil companies dont need more billions of dollars of help. They are working today and making record profits. They can drill in multiple places that they choose not to. God how i wish we could set up two parallel universes so we could test our alternative theories. I feel quite confident of the results.

    I will support any idea that can be economical, at this time and in the near to mid future both wind and especially solar are not economically viable. The projections are anywhere from 12 to 40 years away before such sources will be. As an example solar experts will tell you that solar needs to be AT LEAST76% efficient before it becomes a viable source of replacement. It at present is 37% efficient and it has taken the last 20 years for it to go from about 22% to that 37%. Even the experts will say that the higher you get in efficientcy the harder it is to get there. That there is going to have to be a major break through in the field of nano tech among other things for that to happen. Just so we are clear when talking about that kind of nano tech we are talking about it is the same kind that will be able to be used for something like a "space elevator" or being used to search out and destroy only cancer cells in the human body.


    Reference: the Science channels "2050", the History channel, "Modern Morvels"

  5. #25
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

    Here's how it works.

    My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

    Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

    That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

    That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

    One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

    Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!



    This from a man who uses "Media Matters" as a reference and uses ACORN talking points to try and argue with (hey you see how that worked out for you didn't you, FOX reported the truth and you denied it). How many times have you been proven to be wrong following your rules. As the latest example (post #43):

    http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthre...?t=2620&page=5



    Need I say more.

  6. #26

  7. #27
    Havakasha is offline
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    Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Yea dumbass you cant read can you, just sirius posted exactly what each is given in subsidies TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN MEGAWATT HOUR:

    "This is taken from the governments 2007 Energy Information Administration
    and posted in the San Antonio Express News
    "estimated that in fiscal 2007, tax-payer subsidies for wind-generated electricity, including a production tax credit, equaled $23.37 per megawatt hour...compared to .68c for hydroelectric power and $1.59 for nuclear energy".


    There you idiot it clearly shows that the amount is far higher for wind.

    This from the same guy who tried to argue electric batteries in cars only lasted 7 years (they last the life of the cars according to Toyota) and who refused to acknowledge the validity of a comprehensive and neutral study of
    hybrid, hybrid plug-ins, electrics and diesels costs in comparison to other cars. Talks a good game but its all based on a bias that is so deep he would never be able to acknowledge he was wrong about ANYTHING.
    This from a guy that argues that Barack Obama is unintelligent, can only speak from a teleprompter (did you watch the news shows), and hates white people (his mother and grandparents who raised him are white).
    That's a kind of hatred and ignorance that only comes from a deep inability to empathize with others. Sad and Scary. Sorry to have to say it.

  8. #28
    Havakasha is offline
    Legend
    Havakasha's Avatar
    Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    All this bullshit conversation goes nowhere except for one and only one factor - knowledge. Complete objective unbiased knowledge coupled with standards on which to put that knowledge.

    Here's how it works.

    My standards: Don't lie - no propaganda; no unnecessary wars and no defense spending unless required; no social spending unless needed and controlled; help (support) for those who need it; separation of church and state; no corporate control of the country; willingness to change positions based on good information; use science and not bullshit to answer complex issues; no favoritism to the wealthy; taxes whereby the wealthy pay more; no slavishness to any philosophy unless there is solid evidence; no control of media by ANY entity; a legal system that treats EVERYONE fairly and law enforcement that does as well; control of power and authority because it always corrupts; science allowed to say what its findings are without censorship; and demands by citizens that all of the above are enforced along with any that I have omitted.

    Now any citizen's responsibility is to read/hear as much as possible of the sources THAT SUPPORT THOSE PREMISES (which I can't see anyone disagreeing with) so as to know what is and what isn't being done by those in a position to affect those issues. And that is a lifetime effort!

    That's what I do. Let's see...who attempts to support my concerns as shown above. In totality - NO SINGLE PERSON OR POLITICAL PARTY. Next step - who comes closest. Easy.

    That's how I decide. No using ideology, religion, race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor. As a result, I change my fervor for an issue or person OFTEN based on what I learn and what that person does/does not do to support my concerns. Remember, learning is a DAILY effort. It doesn't stop when your biases or hatred are satisfied. That's what the stupid do and how they got that way. Stop learning and you stop growing. Continue to adapt when significant information becomes available and you will become very knowledgeable AND fair because you know how hard it is to get that way!!!!!

    One other very important requirement - SKEPTICISM. This is the single most important skill to have. The ability to sort the crap, manipulation, lies, distortions, and other attempts by those to GET YOU TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY. Everyone does it; your boss, politicians, cops, clergy, celebrities and others. No one should let themselves be controlled. But that rarely happens because once our buttons are pushed we smile and get in line. Humans are weak and easily controlled. If you know human psychology and are suspicious of EVERYONE you might be able to protect yourself from SOME of the lies. I subject everything from everyone to the BS test. Just like when you buy a car. You do reasearch. Well, politics and everything else should also be researched but not from sources that are obvious manipulators. Do you always believe what a salesman says?

    Hard, yes. Ideology, no. Who does that? Very few. Based on your comments re the media you surely don't!
    Thanks for that thoughtful analysis.

  9. #29
    just sirius is offline
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    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Havakasha View Post
    This from the same guy who tried to argue electric batteries in cars only lasted 7 years (they last the life of the cars according to Toyota) and who refused to acknowledge the validity of a comprehensive and neutral study of
    hybrid, hybrid plug-ins, electrics and diesels costs in comparison to other cars. Talks a good game but its all based on a bias that is so deep he would never be able to acknowledge he was wrong about ANYTHING.
    This from a guy that argues that Barack Obama is unintelligent, can only speak from a teleprompter (did you watch the news shows), and hates white people (his mother and grandparents who raised him are white).
    That's a kind of hatred and ignorance that only comes from a deep inability to empathize with others. Sad and Scary. Sorry to have to say it.

    How's it going Lloyd! Guarenteed...one in the same...Who ever said left wing liberals wern't creative!
    PURCHASED THE CABIN IN THE WOODS...THANKS MEL, MALONE, AND THE BLUE DOG

  10. #30
    Havakasha is offline
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    Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,358
    Took you guys long enough. Just having a little fun. I loved it when john said something to the effect of Havakasha seeming to have more common sense than Lloyd. LOL>

  11. Ad Fairy Senior Member
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