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Thread: The people do not want it!

  1. #11
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    .

    So this is the kind of thing you approve of and support?


    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...lth-Care-Rally

  2. #12
    dread is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    .

    So this is the kind of thing you approve of and support?


    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...lth-Care-Rally
    Several commenters defended Commissioner Duckham by saying that his swastika had a cross through it so he wasn't making any comparisons to Hitler or Nazis. On the face of it, this is a ridiculous argument because in his comments to the reporter, he clearly compares the president to Adolf Hitler and if he wasn't comparing him or his policies to Nazis and Naziism, there'd be no point in the swastika.

    If you read and understood history, the similarities are the same. That's why people are doing this, I don't condone the use of the symbol, but the truth is, what it is.

  3. #13
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    I asked you once and i will ask you again. Are you comparing Bush and Obama to Hitler?

    Because if you are suggesting as you said "the similarities are the same"
    (huh?) then you are off the deep end. Goodnight and good luck.

  4. #14
    dread is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    I asked you once and i will ask you again. Are you comparing Bush and Obama to Hitler?

    Because if you are suggesting as you said "the similarities are the same"
    (huh?) then you are off the deep end. Goodnight and good luck.
    I already answered the question dummy!! LEARN TO READ!!

    This is clearly a waist of time for me Jeff, and John. I will put a piece together about the fairness doctrine when I get time. Wait till you see who they plugged into the FCC. Every SIRI shareholder is going to love this. And Mel, will continue to battle the drones. Here is a link for those whom are interested.
    http://www.donttouchmydial.com/
    Lots of good info in here!!

  5. #15
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    What is it with all you right wing guys and the use of the word dumb, dummy, dumbass, dumbshit? It seems quite juvenile.

    I looked again and really couldnt decipher an answer to my question, so can you do me a favor and repeat your answer simply and clearly so little ole
    "dummy" me understands? Much obliged.

    You could answer yes or no if you wish.

  6. #16
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    You dont know anyone that "doesnt want some kind of health care reform"
    Well the fact is that the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress for 6 years and did nothing. It certainly seems by their actions that they loved the status quo. In addition there are many people arguing that Americans love their health care system so why change it.
    Obama is not trying to nationalize health care. I dont know why people like you keep saying it. I support single payer and he most definitely is not doing it. No one is talking about scraping the whole system as it exists today. Listen to his town hall event in Montana and then tell me that. Unless you are saying that he is blatantly lying at which point there is not much we can discuss.
    You cant deny that there have been some protestors who have shown up to events with Nazis references and symbols on posters. Same kind of people who say Obama is not born in this country and is a Communist. There are quite a few crazies that probably know nothing other than what they hear from certain sources (fox lol) and are out to cause chaos. Protesting is obviously a protected and important part of our constitution. I see Obama held an OPEN town hall meeting unlike Bush/Cheney and even McCain/ Pallin
    who screened out opposing points of view. i hoped you were bothered by that at the time?


    I tell you he is a blantant lier it has been proven time and time again:


    Here is the link and please goto all the links they provide in their article as proof of what they say.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/12/...ly-fact-check/

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    "Any doubts that President Barack Obama’s “townhall” in Portsmouth, New Hampshire yesterday was a complete farce were dispelled early on when the hand picked crowd broke out in a chant of: “Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!” at the close of his opening remarks. Recognizing his campaign’s signature slogan, the President responded: “Thank you. I remember that.” Comforted knowing he was surrounded by a room full of die-hard supporters, President Obama then want on to make a number of misleading and outright false statements about the health care legislation still working it’s way through Congress. Here are just seven:

    “I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter.” This is directly contradicted by candidate Barack Obama’s own website which quotes Obama at a rally in Ames, Iowa form 2008: “If I were designing a system from scratch I would probably set up a single-payer system. … So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices….Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system.” So there you have in one paragraph the true purpose of Obama’s public option: a vehicle to slowly transition all Americans out of private coverage and into a government-run single payer health care system. This Trojan Horse view of the public option has been reaffirmed by Reps. Barney Frank (D-MA), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein, and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman.

    “Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.” This statement is also plainly false. Again, as demonstrated above, the true purpose of Obama’s public option is to move Americans out of their private coverage and into government run health care. Independent, non-partisan analysis from the Lewin Group has confirmed the House bill, H.R. 3200, will do exactly that: About 88.1 million workers would see their current private, employer-sponsored health plan go away and would be shifted to the public plan.

    “That’s what the health exchange is all about, is that you — just like a member of Congress — can go and choose the plan that’s right for you.” This statement isn’t false, but it is misleading. Members of Congress do purchase their health care through a health exchange: the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). Through the FEHBP 283 private plans compete for federal employees’ health care dollars. The Heritage Foundation has long been a supporter of health reform that empowers consumers to utilize a FEHBP like system. But Obamacare is nothing like the FEHBP system. There is no government run public option competing with private plans in the FEHBP. So whenever Obama says that a health exchange already “drives down costs” he is right … but remember that this cost reduction is achieved purely by private health coverage without any “competition” from a government run public option.

    “We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors.” This is just plain false. The AARP released a statement late yesterday directly contradicting the President: “While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

    “I just want to be clear, again: Seniors who are listening here, this does not affect your benefits. This is not money going to you to pay for your benefits; this is money that is subsidizing folks who don’t need it.” Under the current system, more and more seniors are discovering that it is becoming harder and harder to find and keep doctors who will accept Medicare patients. A 2008 survey found that 29% of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them. Obamacare will only make this problem worse by cutting $313 billion in Medicare reimbursements to health care providers over the next 10 years. This will only force more doctors to stop seeing Medicare patients. Obama also mentioned yesterday that he wants to pay for subsidized health care by killing the Medicare Advantage program. Medicare Advantage plans cover all of the traditional Medicare benefits and much more, including coor*dinated care and care-management programs for enrollees with chronic conditions as well as additional hospitalization and skilled nursing facility stays. 22% of all Medicare patients, which translates to 10.5 million seniors, are currently enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans.

    “I said I won’t sign a bill that adds to the deficit or the national debt. Okay? So this will have to be paid for.” That is a nice promise, but so was Obama’s October 2008 promise that he would enact a “net spending cut.” We all know how that has turned out. The reality is that the Senate still has not figured out how to pay for their bill and the House bill would increase the budget deficit by $239 billion over the next ten years. CBO director Doug Elmendorf has said: “In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.”

    “My belief is, is that [Obamacare] should not burden people who make $250,000 a year or less.” Both the House and Senate bills partially pay for Obamacare by imposing “employer mandates” or “pay or play” provisions that require employers to pay higher taxes if (a) they do not offer health insurance, or (b) they offer it but have employees who decline it and instead use the government system. Multiple studies have shown that such provisions cause both lower wages and lost jobs for low-income workers.

    And these are just some of the falsehoods and misinformation peddled by President Obama yesterday. It doesn’t even include his choice to sell Obamacare as The “Post Office” of Health Care Plans. No wonder so many Americans are skeptical."


    Author: Conn Carroll

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    As for what the republicans have done on health care, why dont you go and check out the tort reform they passed in 2005. While your at it check to see that not one republican voted against it, in both houses of congress but there were almost all the democrats that did voted against it. this is another example of what happens when republicans try to get something in that will usurp the big government plan the democrat want

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    "President Barack Obama says his health care plan will not lead to government rationing of health care, but government run health care systems around the world have had to control costs by doing just that. Conservatives in the House tried to pass amendments that would prevent the federal government from rationing health care under Obamacare, but they were all defeated. For example in the House Ways and Means Committee:

    "Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment that would eliminate the public plan if its enrollees experienced longer wait times than the average wait times for enrollees in private health plans. These people would then be able to enroll in private health plans offered on the Health Insurance Exchange. The Brady amendment failed on a straight party-line vote.""

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    Republicans want health care reform that does not fundamentally change the princibles of the Constitution of The United States. The problem is everytime they try, the democrats get in the way because those same princibles get in the way of the democrat princibles of big government at any and all cost. The proof of this is what is happening right now.
    Last edited by john; 08-16-2009 at 09:51 AM.

  7. #17
    john is offline
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    Here is another lie Obama did.


    "Statement from the American College of Surgeons Regarding
    Recent Comments from President Obama.


    CHICAGO—The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States. When the President makes statements that are incorrect or not based in fact, we think he does a disservice to the American people at a time when they want clear, understandable facts about health care reform. We want to set the record straight.

    Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation. This payment also includes the evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for this service.

    Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon’s decision to remove a child’s tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do. Surgeons make decisions about recommending operations based on what’s right for the patient.

    We agree with the President that the best thing for patients with diabetes is to manage the disease proactively to avoid the bad consequences that can occur, including blindness, stroke, and amputation. But as is the case for a person who has been treated for cancer and still needs to have a tumor removed, or a person who is in a terrible car crash and needs access to a trauma surgeon, there are times when even a perfectly managed diabetic patient needs a surgeon. The President’s remarks are truly alarming and run the risk of damaging the all-important trust between surgeons and their patients.

    We assume that the President made these mistakes unintentionally, but we would urge him to have his facts correct before making another inflammatory and incorrect statement about surgeons and surgical care.

    About the American College of Surgeons
    The American College of Surgeons is a scientific and educational organization of surgeons that was founded in 1913 to raise the standards of surgical practice and to improve the care of the surgical patient. The College is dedicated to the ethical and competent practice of surgery. Its achievements have significantly influenced the course of scientific surgery in America and have established it as an important advocate for all surgical patients. The College has more than 74,000 members and is the largest organization of surgeons in the world."

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