Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: The people do not want it!

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    just sirius is offline
    Mentor
    just sirius's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,170

    The people do not want it!

    Lloyd- what part of HELL NO do the liberals not understand!!

    Lloyd- several weeks back you ask for my poll numbers! Becareful what you wish for!!!!

    Support for Congressional Health Care Reform Falls to New Low


    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
    Public support for the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low as just 42% of U.S. voters now favor the plan. That’s down five points from two weeks ago and down eight points from six weeks ago.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that opposition to the plan has increased to 53%, up nine points since late June.

    More significantly, 44% of voters strongly oppose the health care reform effort versus 26% who strongly favor it. Intensity has been stronger among opponents of the plan since the debate began.

    Sixty-seven percent (67%) of those under 30 favor the plan while 56% of those over 65 are opposed. Among senior citizens, 46% are strongly opposed.

    Predictably, 69% of Democrats favor the plan, while 79% of Republicans oppose it. Yet while 44% of Democratic voters strongly favor the reform effort, 70% of GOP voters are strongly opposed to it.
    Most notable, however, is the opposition among voters not affiliated with either party. Sixty-two percent (62%) of unaffiliated voters oppose the health care plan, and 51% are strongly opposed. This marks an uptick in strong opposition among both Republicans and unaffiliateds, while the number of strongly supportive Democrats is unchanged.

    (Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

    Despite the loss of support, 51% of all voters still say it is at least somewhat likely that the health care proposal will become law this year. That figure has hardly budged since the debate began and now includes 18% who say passage is very likely. Thirty-nine percent (39%) say passage of the plan is unlikely, but only 10% say it is not at all likely.

    Congress is now in recess until early September, but Democratic congressional leaders have vowed to pass some form of the health care plan EVEN THOUGH THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT!!!!!!!!!(MY TWO CENTS)

    when they return to Washington. Town hall meetings many of the congressmen are holding to get public feedback on the plan have turned into protest sessions, and the New York Times reports today that the president and Democratic leaders are revamping the sales strategy for the reform effort because they find themselves on the defensive.

    As for the protesters at congressional town hall meetings, 49% believe they are genuinely expressing the views of their neighbors, while 37% think they’ve been put up to it by special interest groups and lobbyists.

    The latest polls shows that 26% of voters believe that passage of the Congressional health care plan will lead to a better quality of health care. But most voters (51%) disagree and say the quality will get worse. Seventeen percent (17%) expect it to stay the same.

    Voters ages 18 to 29 are closely divided on the question of quality, but those in all older age groups by sizable margins expect quality to worsen.

    Seventy-five percent (75%) of Republicans and 59% of unaffiliated voters say passage of the health care plan will cause the quality of health care to go down. Among Democrats, 41% say quality will improve, 25% get worse and 26% stay the same.

    Fifty-one percent (51%) of all voters say the cost of health care will go up if the reform proposal passes. Nineteen percent (19%) say costs will go down, and 21% say they will stay the same.

    Voters in all age and income groups, again by large margins, believe passage of the reform measure will drive up health care costs.

    Republican voters overwhelmingly say costs will go up with the new plan. By a two-to-one margin, unaffiliated voters agree. Democrats are fairly evenly divided as to whether costs will go up or down.
    When it comes to health care decisions, 51% of voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies. But 41% fear the insurance companies more.

    Yet only 25% agree with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that health insurance companies are "villains."
    While Congress has debated reforms to the U.S. health care system, Americans have begun to show greater confidence in it. Forty-eight percent (48%) of adults now say the health care system is good or excellent, and only 19% say it’s poor.

    Fifty-four percent (54%) of voters say tax cuts for the middle class are more important than new spending for health care reform, although the president’s top economic advisers have indicated that tax hikes may be necessary to fund the reform plan. That helps explain why 76% say it is likely that taxes will have to be raised on the middle class to cover the cost of health care reform, and 59% say it’s very likely.

    Thirty-two percent (32%) favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone, but 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.
    PURCHASED THE CABIN IN THE WOODS...THANKS MEL, MALONE, AND THE BLUE DOG

  2. #2
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
    Addict
    lloyd Handwerker's Avatar
    Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 524
    Your absolutely right that the Polls have turned against Obama in general though i have seen other polls that show that most people still want health care reform. Lets see what happens in the next month or so. Im pretty confident that a new health care plan will pass its just a matter of what.

  3. #3
    just sirius is offline
    Mentor
    just sirius's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,170
    Lloyd

    No doubt about the poll numbers and that the people of this country are mounting up and rising up against what they believe is a healthcare plan that is totally unacceptable...that being said...I do not know of anyone...Republican, Democrat, Conservative, or Liberal that doesn't want some sort of healthcare reform...Contrary to the beliefs of Obama and the Liberals...we have the greatest healthcare in the world...everyone else is tied for dead last! Why on earth would we want to basically scrap the whole thing over the next 15 years and go to a single payer system! Single payer systems do not work! The healthcare for our uninsured is better than most in single payer systems! Obama's plan is to nationalize healthcare...no doubt about it! He has said it himself on several occasions. He's not saying it right now because he is smart enough to know that it is a no win situation! But to start with subtle changes to the system and slowly take it national more and more over time! I'm 100% against single payer system!!!!!

    Absolutely cannot believe what the Liberals keep saying about the protests...Rascist, Ku klux klan like, Tim Mcvey, un-american...it goes on and on! I guess in their mind whats good for the goose is not good for the gander! F%$king scumbags!
    PURCHASED THE CABIN IN THE WOODS...THANKS MEL, MALONE, AND THE BLUE DOG

  4. #4
    just sirius is offline
    Mentor
    just sirius's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,170
    Lloyd

    Is it healthcare reform...I think it is now called...health insurance reform! You see...the people are telling the Liberals and Obama too stick it up their collective asses...so they attack the insurance companies!

    You called some Republican Senators/Congressmen...wackos and nutjobs! Sinced you are a liberal, I guess it's American!

    You want to talk about Senators and Congressmen
    1. Pelosi- protestors are unamerican
    2. Reed
    3. Frank- do blame anything on me...it was just under my watch
    4. Murtha- our soldiers are murders(alledgely)
    5. Dingle- what...read the bill...its over 1000 pages...i need lawyers help
    6. Rangle- How was i to know I had to pay taxes on my rental property
    7. Dodd- How was I to know that I got a sweet deal from my buddy.

    I thought of those just off the top of my head!

    I think you win!
    PURCHASED THE CABIN IN THE WOODS...THANKS MEL, MALONE, AND THE BLUE DOG

  5. #5
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
    Addict
    lloyd Handwerker's Avatar
    Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 524
    Quote Originally Posted by just sirius View Post
    Lloyd

    No doubt about the poll numbers and that the people of this country are mounting up and rising up against what they believe is a healthcare plan that is totally unacceptable...that being said...I do not know of anyone...Republican, Democrat, Conservative, or Liberal that doesn't want some sort of healthcare reform...Contrary to the beliefs of Obama and the Liberals...we have the greatest healthcare in the world...everyone else is tied for dead last! Why on earth would we want to basically scrap the whole thing over the next 15 years and go to a single payer system! Single payer systems do not work! The healthcare for our uninsured is better than most in single payer systems! Obama's plan is to nationalize healthcare...no doubt about it! He has said it himself on several occasions. He's not saying it right now because he is smart enough to know that it is a no win situation! But to start with subtle changes to the system and slowly take it national more and more over time! I'm 100% against single payer system!!!!!

    Absolutely cannot believe what the Liberals keep saying about the protests...Rascist, Ku klux klan like, Tim Mcvey, un-american...it goes on and on! I guess in their mind whats good for the goose is not good for the gander! F%$king scumbags!
    You dont know anyone that "doesnt want some kind of health care reform"
    Well the fact is that the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress for 6 years and did nothing. It certainly seems by their actions that they loved the status quo. In addition there are many people arguing that Americans love their health care system so why change it.
    Obama is not trying to nationalize health care. I dont know why people like you keep saying it. I support single payer and he most definitely is not doing it. No one is talking about scraping the whole system as it exists today. Listen to his town hall event in Montana and then tell me that. Unless you are saying that he is blatantly lying at which point there is not much we can discuss.
    You cant deny that there have been some protestors who have shown up to events with Nazis references and symbols on posters. Same kind of people who say Obama is not born in this country and is a Communist. There are quite a few crazies that probably know nothing other than what they hear from certain sources (fox lol) and are out to cause chaos. Protesting is obviously a protected and important part of our constitution. I see Obama held an OPEN town hall meeting unlike Bush/Cheney and even McCain/ Pallin
    who screened out opposing points of view. i hoped you were bothered by that at the time?

  6. #6
    just sirius is offline
    Mentor
    just sirius's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,170
    Lloyd

    "You cant deny that there have been some protestors who have shown up to events with Nazis references and symbols on posters."

    First and foremost, actually did not see that footage! But, I will take your word for it! But I guess it goes back to what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. Seems like you have forgotten all of the Nazi references that the Liberals hurled at Bush! Imagine that...selective memory!

    Also, have seen the youtube videos of Obama saying that it will take 10-15 years to get rid of the private insurance co. I know you have seen it too! Also, have seen the video where he states that he wants a single payer system! So, we are left with one of two options...1st...he was lying when he was taped making the statements about the insurance companies/single payer system...or...he is lying now...It's one or the other! so one must conclude that...yes...he is a liar. His past comments are coming back to haunt him! He keeps trying spin control...not working... Not my opinion...just fact.

    I guess that since you are outraged by the acts of the protestors...you must then be appalled by the way the media treated Palin, the liberals wearing the Palin is a Cunt shirts, or the blatant family attacks. I don't recall any derogatory comments about Obama's children, or any Obama is a cocksucker comments...do you! Liberals have selective memory! They don't seem to remember the BS that they spew!
    PURCHASED THE CABIN IN THE WOODS...THANKS MEL, MALONE, AND THE BLUE DOG

  7. #7
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
    Addict
    lloyd Handwerker's Avatar
    Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 524
    Quote Originally Posted by just sirius View Post
    Lloyd

    "You cant deny that there have been some protestors who have shown up to events with Nazis references and symbols on posters."

    First and foremost, actually did not see that footage! But, I will take your word for it! But I guess it goes back to what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. Seems like you have forgotten all of the Nazi references that the Liberals hurled at Bush! Imagine that...selective memory!

    Also, have seen the youtube videos of Obama saying that it will take 10-15 years to get rid of the private insurance co. I know you have seen it too! Also, have seen the video where he states that he wants a single payer system! So, we are left with one of two options...1st...he was lying when he was taped making the statements about the insurance companies/single payer system...or...he is lying now...It's one or the other! so one must conclude that...yes...he is a liar. His past comments are coming back to haunt him! He keeps trying spin control...not working... Not my opinion...just fact.

    I guess that since you are outraged by the acts of the protestors...you must then be appalled by the way the media treated Palin, the liberals wearing the Palin is a Cunt shirts, or the blatant family attacks. I don't recall any derogatory comments about Obama's children, or any Obama is a cocksucker comments...do you! Liberals have selective memory! They don't seem to remember the BS that they spew!
    Again i will lead with my main argument and try to minimalize the discussion of the tit for tat of who on the left or right is out of control in their protests. Once again, the Republicans controlled the Congress and the Presidency for six years under Bush and did NOTHING on health care. They were in charge as health care costs continued to sky rocket, more and more people lost their health care and businesses increasingly suffered under the burden of the system. Again what did they do? What does that tell you about their concern?
    At least Obama comes in and is trying to do SOMETHING. Ok you dont like his something based on the belief that he really wants the Govt to take over all of health care. Lets say for argument sake that you are right (i personally dont believe it)and Obama wants a single payer system. Dont you understand how the legislative process works in this country? It runs from the middle and it forces compromise. The Senate legislation is being held up for a handful of Blue Dogs who represent a certain constituency. Obama knows that and has shown himself to be a very practical politician.
    i think when you look back in 10 or 20 years from now after health care legislation has been passed you are going to see that it isnt a single payer system but a blend of private and public systems just like he says he wants.
    i am not going to try any more to convince you of that.
    Now to say that no one from the Right wing has made derogatory comments about Obama or his children must means that you live in a cocoon. There are examples all over the place. Just Google it if you dont believe me. There is a lot of passion out there which is a good thing but also a lot of hate and lies. Its disturbing to me. There is way too much time being spent on whether Obama is a citizen, a Communist, a Socialist etc. and not enough time spent in civil debate about the myriad of serious problems we face in this country. Obviously we are never going to agree on a whole host of issues but at least up to this point you haven't called me a dumbshit, dumbass etc. LOL> Its talk like that which gets us absolutely nowhere.

    P.S. i wish for all eternity that the word Nazi not be used for partisan political purposes by either side. My great grandparents on my mothers side were killed by the Nazis and we should discuss them only in the context of the Holocaust, WW2, and world history.
    the nazis

  8. #8
    john is offline
    Guru
    john's Avatar
    Joined: May 2008 Posts: 2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    You dont know anyone that "doesnt want some kind of health care reform"
    Well the fact is that the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress for 6 years and did nothing. It certainly seems by their actions that they loved the status quo. In addition there are many people arguing that Americans love their health care system so why change it.
    Obama is not trying to nationalize health care. I dont know why people like you keep saying it. I support single payer and he most definitely is not doing it. No one is talking about scraping the whole system as it exists today. Listen to his town hall event in Montana and then tell me that. Unless you are saying that he is blatantly lying at which point there is not much we can discuss.
    You cant deny that there have been some protestors who have shown up to events with Nazis references and symbols on posters. Same kind of people who say Obama is not born in this country and is a Communist. There are quite a few crazies that probably know nothing other than what they hear from certain sources (fox lol) and are out to cause chaos. Protesting is obviously a protected and important part of our constitution. I see Obama held an OPEN town hall meeting unlike Bush/Cheney and even McCain/ Pallin
    who screened out opposing points of view. i hoped you were bothered by that at the time?


    I tell you he is a blantant lier it has been proven time and time again:


    Here is the link and please goto all the links they provide in their article as proof of what they say.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/12/...ly-fact-check/

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Any doubts that President Barack Obama’s “townhall” in Portsmouth, New Hampshire yesterday was a complete farce were dispelled early on when the hand picked crowd broke out in a chant of: “Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!” at the close of his opening remarks. Recognizing his campaign’s signature slogan, the President responded: “Thank you. I remember that.” Comforted knowing he was surrounded by a room full of die-hard supporters, President Obama then want on to make a number of misleading and outright false statements about the health care legislation still working it’s way through Congress. Here are just seven:

    “I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter.” This is directly contradicted by candidate Barack Obama’s own website which quotes Obama at a rally in Ames, Iowa form 2008: “If I were designing a system from scratch I would probably set up a single-payer system. … So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices….Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system.” So there you have in one paragraph the true purpose of Obama’s public option: a vehicle to slowly transition all Americans out of private coverage and into a government-run single payer health care system. This Trojan Horse view of the public option has been reaffirmed by Reps. Barney Frank (D-MA), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein, and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman.

    “Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.” This statement is also plainly false. Again, as demonstrated above, the true purpose of Obama’s public option is to move Americans out of their private coverage and into government run health care. Independent, non-partisan analysis from the Lewin Group has confirmed the House bill, H.R. 3200, will do exactly that: About 88.1 million workers would see their current private, employer-sponsored health plan go away and would be shifted to the public plan.

    “That’s what the health exchange is all about, is that you — just like a member of Congress — can go and choose the plan that’s right for you.” This statement isn’t false, but it is misleading. Members of Congress do purchase their health care through a health exchange: the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). Through the FEHBP 283 private plans compete for federal employees’ health care dollars. The Heritage Foundation has long been a supporter of health reform that empowers consumers to utilize a FEHBP like system. But Obamacare is nothing like the FEHBP system. There is no government run public option competing with private plans in the FEHBP. So whenever Obama says that a health exchange already “drives down costs” he is right … but remember that this cost reduction is achieved purely by private health coverage without any “competition” from a government run public option.

    “We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors.” This is just plain false. The AARP released a statement late yesterday directly contradicting the President: “While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

    “I just want to be clear, again: Seniors who are listening here, this does not affect your benefits. This is not money going to you to pay for your benefits; this is money that is subsidizing folks who don’t need it.” Under the current system, more and more seniors are discovering that it is becoming harder and harder to find and keep doctors who will accept Medicare patients. A 2008 survey found that 29% of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them. Obamacare will only make this problem worse by cutting $313 billion in Medicare reimbursements to health care providers over the next 10 years. This will only force more doctors to stop seeing Medicare patients. Obama also mentioned yesterday that he wants to pay for subsidized health care by killing the Medicare Advantage program. Medicare Advantage plans cover all of the traditional Medicare benefits and much more, including coor*dinated care and care-management programs for enrollees with chronic conditions as well as additional hospitalization and skilled nursing facility stays. 22% of all Medicare patients, which translates to 10.5 million seniors, are currently enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans.

    “I said I won’t sign a bill that adds to the deficit or the national debt. Okay? So this will have to be paid for.” That is a nice promise, but so was Obama’s October 2008 promise that he would enact a “net spending cut.” We all know how that has turned out. The reality is that the Senate still has not figured out how to pay for their bill and the House bill would increase the budget deficit by $239 billion over the next ten years. CBO director Doug Elmendorf has said: “In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.”

    “My belief is, is that [Obamacare] should not burden people who make $250,000 a year or less.” Both the House and Senate bills partially pay for Obamacare by imposing “employer mandates” or “pay or play” provisions that require employers to pay higher taxes if (a) they do not offer health insurance, or (b) they offer it but have employees who decline it and instead use the government system. Multiple studies have shown that such provisions cause both lower wages and lost jobs for low-income workers.

    And these are just some of the falsehoods and misinformation peddled by President Obama yesterday. It doesn’t even include his choice to sell Obamacare as The “Post Office” of Health Care Plans. No wonder so many Americans are skeptical."


    Author: Conn Carroll

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    As for what the republicans have done on health care, why dont you go and check out the tort reform they passed in 2005. While your at it check to see that not one republican voted against it, in both houses of congress but there were almost all the democrats that did voted against it. this is another example of what happens when republicans try to get something in that will usurp the big government plan the democrat want

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    "President Barack Obama says his health care plan will not lead to government rationing of health care, but government run health care systems around the world have had to control costs by doing just that. Conservatives in the House tried to pass amendments that would prevent the federal government from rationing health care under Obamacare, but they were all defeated. For example in the House Ways and Means Committee:

    "Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment that would eliminate the public plan if its enrollees experienced longer wait times than the average wait times for enrollees in private health plans. These people would then be able to enroll in private health plans offered on the Health Insurance Exchange. The Brady amendment failed on a straight party-line vote.""

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Republicans want health care reform that does not fundamentally change the princibles of the Constitution of The United States. The problem is everytime they try, the democrats get in the way because those same princibles get in the way of the democrat princibles of big government at any and all cost. The proof of this is what is happening right now.
    Last edited by john; 08-16-2009 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
    john is offline
    Guru
    john's Avatar
    Joined: May 2008 Posts: 2,836
    Here is another lie Obama did.


    "Statement from the American College of Surgeons Regarding
    Recent Comments from President Obama.


    CHICAGO—The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States. When the President makes statements that are incorrect or not based in fact, we think he does a disservice to the American people at a time when they want clear, understandable facts about health care reform. We want to set the record straight.

    Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation. This payment also includes the evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for this service.

    Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon’s decision to remove a child’s tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do. Surgeons make decisions about recommending operations based on what’s right for the patient.

    We agree with the President that the best thing for patients with diabetes is to manage the disease proactively to avoid the bad consequences that can occur, including blindness, stroke, and amputation. But as is the case for a person who has been treated for cancer and still needs to have a tumor removed, or a person who is in a terrible car crash and needs access to a trauma surgeon, there are times when even a perfectly managed diabetic patient needs a surgeon. The President’s remarks are truly alarming and run the risk of damaging the all-important trust between surgeons and their patients.

    We assume that the President made these mistakes unintentionally, but we would urge him to have his facts correct before making another inflammatory and incorrect statement about surgeons and surgical care.

    About the American College of Surgeons
    The American College of Surgeons is a scientific and educational organization of surgeons that was founded in 1913 to raise the standards of surgical practice and to improve the care of the surgical patient. The College is dedicated to the ethical and competent practice of surgery. Its achievements have significantly influenced the course of scientific surgery in America and have established it as an important advocate for all surgical patients. The College has more than 74,000 members and is the largest organization of surgeons in the world."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •