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Thread: John says Fox news "is the most honest"

  1. #21
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    The facts say no weapons of mass destruction. Bush and Cheney even said it
    even though they based there invasion of Iraq on it. Must have been painful to admit and i quess that is why you are having such trouble admitting it as well.
    Sorry the world disagrees with you but its fair to say we have reached the end of this discussion. Take it easy.

  2. #22
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    The facts say no weapons of mass destruction. Bush and Cheney even said it
    even though they based there invasion of Iraq on it. Must have been painful to admit and i quess that is why you are having such trouble admitting it as well.
    Sorry the world disagrees with you but its fair to say we have reached the end of this discussion. Take it easy.


    Once again dumbass, just answer the questions posed to you several times already. They are two simple questions. Why wont you just answer them. Here they are again,

    1) Are you going to denie that there were artillery shells with chemical warheads (chemical weapons are considered weapons of mass destruction) found in Iraq.

    2) Are you going to denie that there was yellow cake found in Iraq.


    The answers are a simple yes or no.


    So JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

  3. #23
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    George Bush i believe is residing in Texas
    Cheney i know comes from Montana not sure if he is still hanging out
    in DC.

    I have been told by someone very high up in the former administration thatthey are waiting to answer your questions. Good luck.

  4. #24
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    George Bush i believe is residing in Texas
    Cheney i know comes from Montana not sure if he is still hanging out
    in DC.

    I have been told by someone very high up in the former administration thatthey are waiting to answer your questions. Good luck.

    Just keep side stepping, people see what you are doing. This is exactly why I dont do things in PMs I love showing people what twits you are.

  5. #25
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    The facts say no weapons of mass destruction. Bush and Cheney even said it
    even though they based there invasion of Iraq on it. Must have been painful to admit and i quess that is why you are having such trouble admitting it as well.
    Sorry the world disagrees with you but its fair to say we have reached the end of this discussion. Take it easy.


    lloyd Handwerker, you are not interested in facts you are interested in your own bias only, otherwise you would have posted this yourself. I am sure as I can be on this that you saw this also AFTER I got into it with you. So the only reason you could have for not answering the questions I posed before was to mislead.


    here is the article:

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    WASHINGTON--
    The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

    "We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

    Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

    Click here to read the declassified portion of the NGIC report.

    He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.

    "The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," Santorum read from the document.

    "This says weapons have been discovered, more weapons exist and they state that Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the materials that are or may still be in Iraq," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

    The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions.

    Hoekstra said the report, completed in April but only declassified now, shows that "there is still a lot about Iraq that we don't fully understand."

    Asked why the Bush administration, if it had known about the information since April or earlier, didn't advertise it, Hoekstra conjectured that the president has been forward-looking and concentrating on the development of a secure government in Iraq.

    Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

    "This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

    The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

    He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven itself to be untrue.

    "It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

    Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a 16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were incomplete, they and others have said.

    "We know it was there, in place, it just wasn't operative when inspectors got there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that's what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they were certainly headed in that direction," said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly Standard and a FOX News contributor.

    "It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think, there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq," Barnes said.

    The release of the declassified materials comes as the Senate debates Democratic proposals to create a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. The debate has had the effect of creating disunity among Democrats, a majority of whom shrunk Wednesday from an amendment proposed by Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts to have troops to be completely withdrawn from Iraq by the middle of next year.

    At the same time, congressional Republicans have stayed highly united, rallying around a White House that has seen successes in the last couple weeks, first with the death of terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, then the completion of the formation of Iraq's Cabinet and then the announcement Tuesday that another key Al Qaeda in Iraq leader, "religious emir" Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was also killed in a U.S. airstrike.

    Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.

    "This is an incredibly in my mind significant finding. The idea that, as my colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle, that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.

    As a result of this new information, under the aegis of his chairmanship, Hoekstra said he is going to ask for more reporting by the various intelligence agencies about weapons of mass destruction.

    "We are working on the declassification of the report. We are going to do a thorough search of what additional reports exist in the intelligence community. And we are going to put additional pressure on the Department of Defense and the folks in Iraq to more fully pursue a complete investigation of what existed in Iraq before the war," Hoekstra said.

    FOX News' Jim Angle and Sharon Kehnemui Liss contributed to this report.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Now it is clear anyone that has just read that would have answered the question in a poll; "Were there WMDs found in Iraq" with a YES that would also make them correct. So the question is who is less knowledgable on this issue when it was taken on, lloyd Handwerker and the people giving the poll or the people answering the poll with a answer, YES.


    Also would that poll be considered valid when it says that the people that answered YES were wrong. Because the people giving the poll say that there were no WMDs found in Iraq. The people responsible for the poll obviously are the least knowledgable.


    The point being is that poll valid? The answer is absolutely not.


    Are you feeling stupid yet lloyd.


    P.S. here is the link for the article above

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2006...eds-wmds-iraq/
    Last edited by john; 08-10-2009 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #26
    dread is offline
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    The facts are!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    The facts say no weapons of mass destruction. Bush and Cheney even said it
    even though they based there invasion of Iraq on it. Must have been painful to admit and i quess that is why you are having such trouble admitting it as well.
    Sorry the world disagrees with you but its fair to say we have reached the end of this discussion. Take it easy.
    On 21 March 1986, the United Nations Security Council made a declaration stating that "members are profoundly concerned by the unanimous conclusion of the specialists that chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops and the members of the Council strongly condemn this continued use of chemical weapons in clear violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925 which prohibits the use in war of chemical weapons." The United States was the only member who voted against the issuance of this statement.[65]

    According to retired Colonel Walter Lang, senior defense intelligence officer for the United States Defense Intelligence Agency at the time, "the use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern" to Reagan and his aides, because they "were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose." He claimed that the Defense Intelligence Agency "would have never accepted the use of chemical weapons against civilians, but the use against military objectives was seen as inevitable in the Iraqi struggle for survival",[66] The Reagan administration did not stop aiding Iraq after receiving reports of the use of poison gas on Kurdish civilians.[67][68] There is great resentment in Iran[citation needed] that the international community helped Iraq develop its chemical weapons arsenal and armed forces, and also that the world did nothing to punish Saddam's Ba'athist regime for its use of chemical weapons against Iran throughout the war particularly since the US and other western powers soon felt obliged to oppose the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and eventually invade Iraq itself to remove Saddam Hussein.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2...emical_weapons

    Everyone here is dumber, for having read your posts!!!

  7. #27
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    I love how you guys in a desperate attempt to protect Fox as a news source (because its the only place you get your information) ignore not just one
    but a number of reputable polls which clearly show that the Fox news audience scores very low on facts about issues. You just cant accept the facts.
    Spending all your time distorting one fact around weapons of mass destruction is very revealing of your bias. Sorry if it hurts but its the truth
    and you dont have to take my word for it.

  8. #28
    lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    Quoting Rick Santorum on weapons of mass destruction is like quoting Sarah
    Pallin on Health care. Both wack jobs who have not a shred of credibility.

  9. #29
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dread View Post
    On 21 March 1986, the United Nations Security Council made a declaration stating that "members are profoundly concerned by the unanimous conclusion of the specialists that chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops and the members of the Council strongly condemn this continued use of chemical weapons in clear violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925 which prohibits the use in war of chemical weapons." The United States was the only member who voted against the issuance of this statement.[65]

    According to retired Colonel Walter Lang, senior defense intelligence officer for the United States Defense Intelligence Agency at the time, "the use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern" to Reagan and his aides, because they "were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose." He claimed that the Defense Intelligence Agency "would have never accepted the use of chemical weapons against civilians, but the use against military objectives was seen as inevitable in the Iraqi struggle for survival",[66] The Reagan administration did not stop aiding Iraq after receiving reports of the use of poison gas on Kurdish civilians.[67][68] There is great resentment in Iran[citation needed] that the international community helped Iraq develop its chemical weapons arsenal and armed forces, and also that the world did nothing to punish Saddam's Ba'athist regime for its use of chemical weapons against Iran throughout the war particularly since the US and other western powers soon felt obliged to oppose the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and eventually invade Iraq itself to remove Saddam Hussein.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2...emical_weapons

    Everyone here is dumber, for having read your posts!!!


    This post has absolutely nothing to do with what was talked about and that was that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq. When there was suppose to be none at the time Iraq was suposed to be a WMD free zone.

    P.S. Sorry Dread I thought you where lloyd posting trying to confuse the issue as he does do when he is losing an arguement.
    Last edited by john; 08-11-2009 at 10:12 AM.

  10. #30
    john is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    I love how you guys in a desperate attempt to protect Fox as a news source (because its the only place you get your information) ignore not just one
    but a number of reputable polls which clearly show that the Fox news audience scores very low on facts about issues. You just cant accept the facts.
    Spending all your time distorting one fact around weapons of mass destruction is very revealing of your bias. Sorry if it hurts but its the truth
    and you dont have to take my word for it.

    Both the polls you put up, asked the same questions you twit. Therefore it makes both the polls you put up invalid. It really took no time at all because I watch FOX, I knew right where to go to get it.


    What is desperate is someone that still cant admit he was wrong, when the information was just put infront of him.

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