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  1. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:42 AM #31
    Quote Originally Posted by imromo24 View Post
    I just bought a truck and an SUV, the difference in gas barely comes into play until your talking 30++ mpg, going from 18mpg to 24mpg isn't worth being uncomfortable.
    No argument with you. Of course if you bought a prius you could get close
    to 50. New Cafe standards are about to force US car companies to go where
    they should have gone a long time ago.
    Car companies need to lead just like Gov't when it comes to overall energy policy.
    Following doesn't cut it. Just returned from Spain working on a documentary
    about infrastructure. They have a great high speed train system which by the
    way is built through a unique partnership between private business and Govt.
    Its quite successful financially.

  2. imromo24 is offline
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    Joined: Aug 2008 Location: Steeler Town, MI Posts: 2,524
    06-01-2009, 09:43 AM #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben View Post

    PS For all the non-Stern listeners, listen to the start of one of the replays today fin hilarious, first few minutes are great....Stern talking about company beatings, not meetings. LOL. I had a company beating on Friday so it resonated well with me. Noonish on 100! I'd pay 50/month for those kind of laughs.
    Ha i always say "time for my morning beating, im mean boring meeting..oops, sorry morning meeting..."

    Also, Don't forget channel 56 on xm, (jamon channel) Dave Matthews band all week.

  3. john is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:48 AM #33
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    You have a myopic view of what brought GM down. Its way more complex than simply talking about unions. Obviously the bad recession has a lot to do with it but to not acknowledge that there was a lot of incompetence by management is really to stick your head in the sand. Anyone with a certain amount of objectivity knew as soon as gas prices went past a certain price people would want to abandon their gas guzzlers. The goal
    of a good company is to see the future and be prepared for it.


    Are you kidding me it normally takes a car 4 to 5 years to go from concept to the show room. The Viper was an exception to the norm and that still took over 2 years. The price of oil was inflated by speculators, not by supply and demand. Hell just look at the price of it today with 2.4 billion barrels of oil just sitting in tankers (used as storage).

  4. trippingthespeculatingpos is offline
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    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 2,884
    06-01-2009, 09:48 AM #34
    well my first vehiclewasa ford ranger, it was cool, ran good reliable, second car was a chevrolet cavalier, didnt have any problems with this had it for 10 years. then i went and bought anouther chevy and now those bastrds are bk, im driving around a bk car. jerks

  5. relmor2003 is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:48 AM #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    You sound as surprised as the Johnny Irish, Reimor etc. Johnny "Take it to the bank". Hey Johnny i couldnt help rubbing it in. Sorry!
    Yes, but after I heard the first offer to bondholders, It didnt look good. Ill admit I was wrong. What I should of said, was their is no way they let a messy BK happen. This is neat and pretty. In and out. All they really have to do is get a judge to sign off on everything, and they are Government Motors, ready for business.!!!

  6. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:48 AM #36
    Quote Originally Posted by imromo24 View Post
    In fact, the salesman had just sent off a couple who bought a hybrid and he laughed he said:
    Wow now thats what I call a real scientific poll. LOL>
    Prove that with regard to the new Prius or the honda civic hybrid or new honda hybrid. Put your money where your mouth is
    Now i would agree with you about a bunch of hybrids the US car companies and even the Japanese are turning out right now which are BS financially.
    I hate to inform you, however, that the FUTURE of the automobile is hybrids and electrics as well as better diesel (check Europe) and in 10 years you will pretend you never said what you said.

  7. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:52 AM #37
    Quote Originally Posted by relmor2003 View Post
    Yes, but after I heard the first offer to bondholders, It didnt look good. Ill admit I was wrong. What I should of said, was their is no way they let a messy BK happen. This is neat and pretty. In and out. All they really have to do is get a judge to sign off on everything, and they are Government Motors, ready for business.!!!
    I always said the bondholders would be the difference. The aim was always
    just what they did with Chrysler which is out of bankruptcy starting tomorrow.
    Im hoping that GM will be out of bankruptcy shortly (they are talking 2 to 3 months).

  8. underway is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:53 AM #38
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Thats a load of crap, GM, and Ford gave the people exactly what they wanted, SUVs. It was not to long ago every analyst were jumping all over Toyota, ect., ect., for being behind in the SUV/Truck market. The fact is it was the unions that broke the US auto companies. You cant pay people for not working (job bank) and stay in business, you cant pay people twice what Toyota is and stay in business. You can say what you want but what could GM do. The unions had the democrats full backing in doing what they did to the US auto companies. I also blame dumb ass people that think they could keep the us economy running or the auto industry would not effect them, well if people get layed off from the auto industry they cant buy computers can they. So keep buying those foreign cars, I dont care as long as you keep your mouth shut about the bad economy. As far as I am concerned once you buy that foreign car your part of the problem not the solution. You cant be all for unions then piss on them by buying a foreign car.
    Sure, unions caused huge problems. And yes, the public wanted SUVs. And, with gas prices down, they still do! I personally think that the Japanese (and others of late) entry in the US market created too much capacity, and the American companies failed to react quickly enough to effectively keep them out. Union wages, union rules affected cost and quality, to your point. Consumers will always make choices in their own best interest, so the 'buy American' campaigns never work for long. Companies either compete or die. And, auto companies that build 'green' cars that use inefficient and expensive technology will not be competitive, especially with low fuel costs. The gov't can madate all they want about green technology, but they can't force the natural development of cost effective solutions. They are either discovered or they're not. Economics drives this, not policy. Socialism always fails in the long run. Not many true technical and scientific discoveries coming out of socialist countries. Capitalism is necessary for progress. Proven time and time again.

  9. relmor2003 is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:53 AM #39
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Thats a load of crap, GM, and Ford gave the people exactly what they wanted, SUVs. It was not to long ago every analyst were jumping all over Toyota, ect., ect., for being behind in the SUV/Truck market. The fact is it was the unions that broke the US auto companies. You cant pay people for not working (job bank) and stay in business, you cant pay people twice what Toyota is and stay in business. You can say what you want but what could GM do. The unions had the democrats full backing in doing what they did to the US auto companies. I also blame dumb ass people that think they could keep the us economy running or the auto industry would not effect them, well if people get layed off from the auto industry they cant buy computers can they. So keep buying those foreign cars, I dont care as long as you keep your mouth shut about the bad economy. As far as I am concerned once you buy that foreign car your part of the problem not the solution. You cant be all for unions then piss on them by buying a foreign car.
    Damn John, you stole my thunder. Im glad to see you finally agree with me on why the entire american economy is at such a huge disadvantage to other countries. We have a sickness here. We actually CARE about our workers, and people. And the environment. If the world wont play fair, either everyone changes, or we have to change. Or all domestic business's will continue to struggle. And Obama and his health care agenda is literally just throwing fuel on the fire.
    Yes, GM died because their union was too strong, their cars too expensive to bulid, and high gas prices ruined them. Plus you dont make your bottom line profitable only at MAXIMUM output. Was this the monster they inherited? Was this the only way to make the past makeup of GM profitable? Was the first economic slowdown and high gas prices simply the ticking time bomb with this company? Outside of BK, could ANY CEO have made it work? Or course not.

  10. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 09:56 AM #40
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Are you kidding me it normally takes a car 4 to 5 years to go from concept to the show room. The Viper was an exception to the norm and that still took over 2 years. The price of oil was inflated by speculators, not by supply and demand. Hell just look at the price of it today with 2.4 billion barrels of oil just sitting in tankers (used as storage).
    That is exactly what i am talking about with regard to forward thinking.
    I could show you lots of articles from years ago predicting exactly what has happened. The writing was on the wall. Then of course we probably follow very different sources of information.

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